Was Peter ever in Rome? What saith the Scriptures?

[Rex]

The problem I see here is that what you are saying is that....Christianity died. You actually believed that the Church died with the death of the Apostles. Christianity is not about the Apostles and never was. Christianity is about Christ, who did not die. Christ is the Head of the Church and remained so even after the Apostles died. The Church remained alive even after the Apostles died because Christ remained the Head of the Church always.

The problem I see is while your fathers were building a Roman Church, the true church was taken into the wilderness until the reformation.

[sup]10 [/sup]Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. [sup]11 [/sup]And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. [sup]12 [/sup]Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
The Woman Persecuted

[sup]13 [/sup]Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. [sup]14 [/sup]But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. [sup]15 [/sup]So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. [sup]16 [/sup]But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. [sup]17 [/sup]And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.[sup][b][/sup]

 

[epostle1]

The problem I see is while your fathers were building a Roman Church, the true church was taken into the wilderness until the reformation.

That theory was invented by Baptists who think they were at the Council of Nicae in 325 A.D.

"...Baptists at the Council of Nicea. Sound rather silly? It certainly does. And yet, there are those who claim the Church of Nicea was more Protestant in belief and practice than Catholic. I recently read an article in The Christian Research Journal, written by a Reformed Baptist apologist, who argued this very point. No, I'm not making this up. The article, "What Really Happened at Nicea?" actually claimed the Fathers of the Council were essentially Evangelical Protestants.

As a trained patristics scholar, I always feel a great deal of sadness and frustration when I encounter shoddy historical "scholarship," whether it be in the pages of The Watchtower, a digest of Mormon "archaeology," or a popular and usually well-produced Evangelical Protestant apologetics journal. But this article was so error-laden, so amateurishly "researched," and so filled with historical and theological fallacies, that I simply couldn't let it stand without response.

All the classical Protestant confessions of faith expressing the beliefs of the various Reformation branches include the doctrinal proclamations of the ancient Catholic Council of Nicea, whereby Christ is professed to be "of one essence" with the Father. The original Lutheran Augsburg Confession of 1531, for example, and the later Formula of Concord of 1576-1584, each begin with the mention of the doctrine of the Nicene Council... ​

[background=transparent]
Read more: Baptists at Nicae[/background]​

 

[Rex]

That theory was invented by Baptists who think they were at the Council of Nicae in 325 A.D.

Most people already know the catholic church has been engaged in a disinformation campaign for centuries.
That interpretation comes from the reformers BTW.
Here is the disinformation released to stear the light away from your church shortly after the reformation. I have to admit many Christians today have swallowed the futurist bait

Anyone interested can read up here.
http://www.aloha.net.../antichrist.htm


The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism

I,m glad I can still edit this post that statement "below" Selene is to good to step on.
And yes it's because of what Jesus said. ROTF LOL

I want everyone to read it

[font=lucida sans unicode']Disinformation campaign?? You mean like the one when Protestants kept saying that Catholics are NOT supposed to call anyone on earth "father" because of what Jesus said in Matthew 23:8-10? [/font]

 

[Selene]

Most people already know the catholic church has been engaged in a disinformation campaign for centuries.
That interpretation comes from the reformers BTW.
Here is the disinformation released to stear the light away from your church shortly after the reformation. I have to admit many Christians today have swallowed the futurist bait

Anyone interested can read up here.
http://www.aloha.net.../antichrist.htm

[font=lucida sans unicode']Disinformation campaign?? You mean like the one when Protestants kept saying and spreading the word that Catholics are wrong and NOT supposed to call anyone on earth "father" because of what Jesus said in Matthew 23:8-10? [/font]

 

[epostle1]

That link posted by Rex is from the Seventh Day Adventists.

Most people know little about the Seventh-Day Adventists beyond that they worship on Saturdays, not Sundays. But there’s more to this unique sect.

Adventist History

The Seventh-Day Adventist church traces its roots to American preacher William Miller (1782–1849), a Baptist who predicted the Second Coming would occur between March 21, 1843, and March 21, 1844. Because he and his followers proclaimed Christ’s imminent advent, they were known as "Adventists."

When Christ failed to appear, Miller reluctantly endorsed the position of a group of his followers known as the "seventh-month movement," who claimed Christ would return on October 22, 1844 (in the seventh month of the Jewish calendar).
When this didn’t happen either, Miller forswore predicting the date of the Second Coming, and his followers broke up into a number of competing factions. Miller would have nothing to do with the new theories his followers produced, including ones which attempted to save part of his 1844 doctrine. He rejected this and other teachings being generated by his former followers, including those of Ellen Gould White.

Miller had claimed, based on his interpretation of Daniel and Revelation, that Christ would return in 1843–44 to cleanse "the sanctuary" (Dan. 8:11–14, 9:26), which he interpreted as the earth. After the disappointments of 1844, several of his followers proposed an alternative theory. While walking in a cornfield on the morning of October 23, 1844, the day after Christ failed to return, Hiram Edson felt he received a spiritual revelation that indicated that Miller had misidentified the sanctuary. It was not the earth, but the Holy of Holies in God’s heavenly temple. Instead of coming out of the heavenly temple to cleanse the sanctuary of the earth, in 1844 Christ, for the first time, went into the heavenly Holy of Holies to cleanse it instead.

Another group of Millerites was influenced by Joseph Bates, a retired sea captain, who in 1846 and 1849 issued pamphlets insisting that Christians observe the Jewish Sabbath—Saturday—instead of worshipping on Sunday. This helped feed the intense anti-Catholicism of Seventh-Day Adventism, since they blamed the Catholic Church for changing the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

These two streams of thought—Christ entering the heavenly sanctuary and the need to keep the Jewish Sabbath—were combined by White, who claimed to have received many visions confirming these doctrines. Together with Edson and Bates, she formed the Seventh-Day Adventist denomination, which officially received its name in 1860.

more here

Based on their history, what credibility do SDA's have to be so critical of Catholics and Protestants?

The answer: none.

 

[Rex]

That link posted by Rex is from the Seventh Day Adventists.

Did I or have I ever said I believe the Adventist doctrine? LOL no I can say I've been in a 7day church 1 time.
But they do know where the bones are buried don't they,

I could say the same for you, somewhere in all that trash you call the catechism is the truth about believing on Christ.
I could find the same information on a non 7day site but I like their pictures and its complete.
You can find the same thing from The Restored Church of God, but its not as pretty I like pictures
http://realtruth.org...ts&x=0&y=0&k=15

I just love it Selene yes its because of what Jesus said. I can't believe such a statement came from a so called christian.

[font=lucida sans unicode']Disinformation campaign?? You mean like the one when Protestants kept saying and spreading the word that Catholics are wrong and NOT supposed to call anyone on earth "father" because of what Jesus said in Matthew 23:8-10? [/font]

Something else I'd like to add to my 7day statement, that in-spite of there false prophets they have faithfully pointed the finger in the right direction all threw the years. I would like you to note the letters to the churches in Rev their not perfect are they,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most people already know the catholic church has been engaged in a disinformation campaign for centuries.
That interpretation comes from the reformers BTW.
Here is the disinformation released to stear the light away from your church shortly after the reformation. I have to admit many Christians today have swallowed the futurist bait

Anyone interested can read up here.
http://www.aloha.net.../antichrist.htm


The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism

 

[Selene]

I just love it Selene yes its because of what Jesus said. I can't believe such a statement came from a so called christian.

[font=lucida sans unicode']Apparently, you did not read my response to John, so I'll repost it here for you, and I will include what Kepha biblical verse as well.: [/font]

[font=lucida sans unicode']Okay.....let's take a closer look at that biblical passage: [/font]

[font=lucida sans unicode']Matthew 23:8-10 "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.[/font]

According to the Holy Bible, Jesus said not to call anyone "master," "teacher" or "father." If Jesus meant this literally, then you must ask yourself why then did Jesus used the word "father" when referring to Abraham?

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad.

As a matter of fact, Christ even called a Pharisee "master."

John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

So, do you think that Jesus is going to tell His Apostles not to call any man on earth "master," "teacher," and "father" and then turn around and use these words Himself in reference to men on earth? The fact that Jesus used these words Himself shows that Christ never meant what He said LITERALLY. Did the Apostles understand that Jesus did not meant what He said literally?? Yes, because they also use the words themselves.

Acts 7:2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?[/font][/font]

1 Corinthians 4:15 [background=rgb(255, 250, 222)]For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.[/background]


So, as you can see, even the Apostles understood that Christ did not mean what He said literally because St. Stephen addressed the elders and high priest as "fathers" and even call Abraham "father." St. James also called Abraham "father." St. Paul even calls himself "father." And we also have biblical scripture showing that St. Paul called himself a "teacher."

2 Timothy 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. [/font][/font]

So, is the Catholic Church going against Jesus' words when Jesus said not to call any man on earth "master," "teacher," or "father"? Absolutely not. Why? Because we understood that Jesus never meant that LITERALLY. And where did we understand this?? From the Apostles who was there and knew that Jesus never meant those words literally. From the Apostles who also used the words "father", "teacher", and "master." Surely, you are not going to tell me that the Apostles (who had the Holy Spirit in them) was disobeying Christ when they called other people "father", "teacher", or "master"?

So, if Jesus did not mean those words literally....then what exactly did He mean?? We already know the answer to that question.

 

[Rex]

Tell how Jesus was wrong again about calling someone you father, say it again will ya

Most people already know the catholic church has been engaged in a disinformation campaign for centuries.
That interpretation comes from the reformers BTW.
Here is the disinformation released to stear the light away from your church shortly after the reformation. I have to admit many Christians today have swallowed the futurist bait

Anyone interested can read up here.
http://www.aloha.net.../antichrist.htm


The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism

I,m glad I can still edit this post that statement "below" Selene is to good to step on.
And yes it's because of what Jesus said. ROTF LOL

I want everyone to read it

[font=lucida sans unicode']Disinformation campaign?? You mean like the one when Protestants kept saying and spreading the word that Catholics are wrong and NOT supposed to call anyone on earth "father" because of what Jesus said in Matthew 23:8-10? [/font]

 

[Selene]

Tell how Jesus was wrong again about calling someone you father, say it again will ya

Actually, you should be asking Him why He told His Apostles not to call any man "master", "teacher," and "father" and then turn around and use those words Himself when referring to men on earth. In fact, you should even ask the Apostles why are they calling other men "father."

 

[Rex]

Actually, you should be asking Him why He told His Apostles not to call any man "master", "teacher," and "father" and then turn around and use those words Himself when referring to men on earth. In fact, you should even ask the Apostles why are they calling other men "father."

Ohh come on Selene just say it one more time. Tell us all again how Jesus is wrong and Selene and her church is right.
Show us what your made of

[font=lucida sans unicode']Disinformation campaign?? You mean like the one when Protestants kept saying and spreading the word that Catholics are wrong and NOT supposed to call anyone on earth "father" because of what Jesus said in Matthew 23:8-10? [/font]

I see you have slightly edited your original statement

Disinformation campaign?? You mean like the one when Protestants kept saying that Catholics are NOT supposed to call anyone on earth "father" because of what Jesus said in Matthew 23:8-10?

But thats ok I save it for you in my post
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17071-was-peter-ever-in-rome-what-saith-the-scriptures/page__st__30#entry175592

 

[Selene]

Ohh come on Selene just say it one more time. Tell us all again how Jesus is wrong and Selene and her church is right.
Show us what your made of

This is what happens when you did not take Reading 101. You could not understand why the Apostles called other men "father" can you?? Before you falsely accuse the Catholic Church of calling men "father," I highly recommend that you first figure out why the Apostles were doing the same thing. <_<

And by the way, we were not the ones spreading disinformation. That was you spreading the disinformation when you made false accusations. <_<

 

[Rex]

Thata all you got ha, reduced to personal attacks
Latter

 

[Selene]

Thata all you got ha, reduced to personal attacks
Latter

Those are not personal attacks. That's the Truth, and the Truth about you hurts doesn't it??. <_<

 

[Rex]

I know the game Selene push the page down and hide what you don't want people to see.
As soon as the new page starts your gone.
I post these pictures enough people browsing threw will see them


Tell how Jesus was wrong again about calling someone you father, say it again will ya

Most people already know the catholic church has been engaged in a disinformation campaign for centuries.
That interpretation comes from the reformers BTW.
Here is the disinformation released to stear the light away from your church shortly after the reformation. I have to admit many Christians today have swallowed the futurist bait

Anyone interested can read up here.
http://www.aloha.net.../antichrist.htm


The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism

I,m glad I can still edit this post that statement "below" Selene is to good to step on.
And yes it's because of what Jesus said. ROTF LOL

I want everyone to read it

[font=lucida sans unicode']Disinformation campaign?? You mean like the one when Protestants kept saying and spreading the word that Catholics are wrong and NOT supposed to call anyone on earth "father" because of what Jesus said in Matthew 23:8-10? [/font]

 

[Selene]

I know the game Selene push the page down and hide what you don't want people to see.
As soon as the new page starts your gone.
I post these pictures enough people browsing threw will see them


Tell how Jesus was wrong again about calling someone you father, say it again will ya

Most people already know the catholic church has been engaged in a disinformation campaign for centuries.
That interpretation comes from the reformers BTW.
Here is the disinformation released to stear the light away from your church shortly after the reformation. I have to admit many Christians today have swallowed the futurist bait

Anyone interested can read up here.
http://www.aloha.net.../antichrist.htm


The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism

I,m glad I can still edit this post that statement "below" Selene is to good to step on.
And yes it's because of what Jesus said. ROTF LOL

I want everyone to read it

[font=lucida sans unicode']What's there to hide, Brother Rex? I asked a question, and your behavior only proves that what I assume is correct. You (a Protestant) is spreading disinformation about Catholics.....and why do you think that is?? It is because of your hatred of Catholics. For Shame!! [/font]

[font=lucida sans unicode']You actually think I said that Jesus was wrong?? Everyone can see that I never said such thing. May I ask how old you are? [/font]

 

[Rex]

[font=lucida sans unicode']What's there to hide, Brother Rex? I asked a question, and your behavior only proves that what I assume is correct. You (a Protestant) is spreading disinformation about Catholics.....and why do you think that is?? It is because of your hatred of Catholics. For Shame!! [/font]

[font=lucida sans unicode']You actually think I said that Jesus was wrong?? Everyone can see that I never said such thing. May I ask how old you are? [/font]

So are you denying the existence of these documents? I'm certain you do but this is the trade"mark" of catholics they have this ability to look at the truth and simply deny it. I also get a kick put of anyone that stands up for the truth as opposed to CC doctrine as being catholic haters. Maybe we should mention your dislike for protestants that seems to encompass the larger part of your post.

And yes I actually believe you said Jesus was wrong. The Catholic doctrine spells this out over and over again.
and here's your original unedited statement. Unedited until I pointed at it, not that your edit changed its meaning, I simply found it amusing.

http://www.christian..._30#entry175592

[font=lucida sans unicode']Disinformation campaign?? You mean like the one when Protestants kept saying that Catholics are NOT supposed to call anyone on earth "father" because of what Jesus said in Matthew 23:8-10? [/font]

An example looking into the truth and denying it

I would say that referring to spiritual leaders in the CC as father is exactly what Jesus was speaking about.
Similar to your use of the term brother when referring to everyone. Jesus never called the Pharisees brother He called them vipers white washed tomes, your father, satan, ect Yes there's a stark difference between you and Him
So are you a nun

Catholics frequenting protestant site teaching sola church
Just who is it, as you say demonstrating [font=lucida sans unicode']"hatred"[/font] and causing division

 

[epostle1]

"...White claims that the papacy changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday, making this change a mark of its authority. In her view, there will come a time when the United States will establish a "national Sunday law" and compel its citizens to worship on Sunday and thus take the mark of the beast. It will not compel them to become Catholics, but to join a Protestant state-church that is an "image" of the papacy, and thus, "the image of the beast" (ibid., 382–96).

Seventh-Day Adventism cannot change its views on the Catholic Church being the Whore of Babylon without admitting that it was wrong on Sunday worship. It cannot admit that Sunday worship is not the mark of the beast without changing its views on the Jewish Sabbath. Seventh-Day Adventism cannot cease to be anti-Catholic without ceasing to be Seventh-Day Adventism..."
more here

Rex is a Seventh Day Adventist. Anti-Catholicism is their obsession.

 

[Rex]

Hi kepha, what you white washing tonight? a tomb?

dead mans bones in there LOL

 

[Selene]

Hi kepha, what you white washing tonight? a tomb?

dead mans bones in there LOL

The moment one resorts to things like this rather than discussing the topic in a civil way is the moment one lost the debate.

 

[Rex]

The moment one resorts to things like this rather than discussing the topic in a civil way is the moment one lost the debate.

Really Selene how many times have you denied a statement you made and accused me of one that you never proved in the last few days?
That statement is so what? resorting to what? whats so uncivil about it? what debate?
please explain your strawman

Hi kepha, what you white washing tonight? a tomb?

dead mans bones in there LOL