Was Peter thr Rock that the Church was built upon?

[BreadOfLife]

Aww heck. Just can't let this go... So is it the Babylonian Chuches stance that Israel, Jerusalem and the Jews who are the whore of Babylon?

I mean... I didn't even go there but that is what bread of life took it to.

Israel is the whore of Babylon. So saith the Church of Babylon!

Time for yet another Bible lesson . . .

Isaiah 1:21
See how the faithful city has become a prostitute! She once was full of justice; righteousness used to dwell in her-- but now murderers!

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

Rev. 17:6
I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God's holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus. When I saw her, I was greatly astonished.

Israel murdered the prophets and the early Church.
Isaiah 1:21 refers to Jerusalem as a HARLOT. The Church is never referred to as a “whore” in Scripture, but as the “Bride” of Christ.

WHO put Jesus to death??
Apostate Jerusalem and Pagan Rome.

John 19:19
"We have no king but Caesar!"

 

[FHII]

Not buying any of your spin Bread of life... It's the same garbage your fellow Babylonians have tried to peddle before... YOU are trying to give me Bible lessons?!?! You couldn't teach a school of fish to swim!

 

[Mungo]

Not buying any of your spin Bread of life... It's the same garbage your fellow Babylonians have tried to peddle before... YOU are trying to give me Bible lessons?!?! You couldn't teach a school of fish to swim!

Translation:- I can't answer your points so I will just insult you instead.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not buying any of your spin Bread of life... It's the same garbage your fellow Babylonians have tried to peddle before... YOU are trying to give me Bible lessons?!?! You couldn't teach a school of fish to swim!

Translation:
"I can't argue with the evidence you presented so I'll make another moronic comment instead."

Christianity is an evidence-based religion. If YOU can't show any evidence for your ignorant claims about the Catholic Church being the "Whore of Babylon" - then your arguments are nothing more than hot air . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας
The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “ekklesia katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
Καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
Ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely

"Ekklesia Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC CHURCH.

Oh here we going again twisting scripture. So blind

Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Ecclesia has nothing to do woith catholic how long wil the lies be spread its not even a building, Apostays here it is right here corrupting the truth, making God a liar.

 

[mjrhealth]

Really??
Time for another Bible lesson my ignorant friend . . .

So ignorant?? I call my dad father because i am of His seed. i can call my grand father, father, because i am of His seed through my dad, just as the Jews and all the israelites can call Abrham there father because they are of His seed. yet John said to teh pharisees the religious,

Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

or Jesus

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Yet He said they where of a different father

Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

But you see when Christians come to christ we receive teh Holy Spirit the spirit of truth who is sent by God so therefore

Rom_8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

And so we cannot call any other man father for we have a father God ,

1Pe_1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

And so we are his,

but you being of teh seed of your religion, call your priests father and teh pope pappa because you yourselfs are of your religion.

Rom_9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

that which you choose to be a part of is what what you become.

Oh and Jerusalem was never called babylon, Rome was often referd to as babylon which is the home of teh roman catholic church.

 

[Mungo]

So ignorant?? I call my dad father because i am of His seed. i can call my grand father, father, because i am of His seed through my dad, just as the Jews and all the israelites can call Abrham there father because they are of His seed. yet John said to teh pharisees the religious,

Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

or Jesus

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Yet He said they where of a different father

Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

But you see when Christians come to christ we receive teh Holy Spirit the spirit of truth who is sent by God so therefore

Rom_8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

And so we cannot call any other man father for we have a father God ,

1Pe_1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

And so we are his,

but you being of teh seed of your religion, call your priests father and teh pope pappa because you yourselfs are of your religion.

Rom_9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

that which you choose to be a part of is what what you become.

Oh and Jerusalem was never called babylon, Rome was often referd to as babylon which is the home of teh roman catholic church.

Are you suggesting that Catholics are not Christians?

 

[Mungo]

but you being of teh seed of your religion, call your priests father and teh pope pappa because you yourselfs are of your religion.

Jesus said call no man father.

But we don't call our priests father. We address them as father. There is a difference.

 

[mjrhealth]

Are you suggesting that Catholics are not Christians?

Read what you like into it, does your faith need defending???

So why dont you call yourselves christians but by another name seeking to divide.

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

was the pope crucified for you??? can he grant you salvation,??

We don't call our priests father. We address them as father. There is a difference.

Oh you mean like idols and statues :)

 

[Mungo]

Read what you like into it, does your faith need defending???

So why dont you call yourselves christians but by another name seeking to divide.

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

was the pope crucified for you??? can he grant you salvation,??

Oh you mean like idols and statues :)

Typical inane reply. Are you capable of entering into a rational discussion?

Apparently not.

 

[mjrhealth]

Typical inane reply. Are you capable of entering into a rational discussion?

Apparently not.

Your a learned man im am sure you can figure it out?? At lest I have some respect for you...

 

[Mungo]

Your a learned man im am sure you can figure it out?? At lest I have some respect for you...

You have no respect for me or you wouldn't make such a stupid reply.

 

[FHII]

Really??
Time for another Bible lesson my ignorant friend . . .

God commands us to honor our FATHER and mother (Exod. 20:12).
St. Stephen refers to "our father Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
St. Paul speaks of "our father Isaac” (Romans 9:10).
For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

In Matt. 23:9, Jesus is using hyperbole (exaggeration) to make a point and does so many times in Scripture. In the verse that precedes this (Matt: 23:8), Jesus tells us not to call people “Teachers”.

Is Jesus telling us that we can’t call certain people "fathers" or “teachers” when they may actually be fathers or teachers? The answer is a resounding, “No.” He is telling us that no man is to be considered father above our Father in heaven and no person is to be considered teacher above our Teacher in heaven.

Jesus was speaking about the Scribes and Pharisees who exalted themselves before all: “They love places of honor at banquets, seats of honor in synagogues, greetings in marketplaces, and the salutation 'Rabbi.”(Matt 23:6-7)

This is all easy to refute except for one thing. First off. Yes... people are called "father" in the Bible. Who??? Paternal men. Obviously, that is not what Jesus was talking about then. He was talking about calling a person "father" in a spiritual sense. In other words, don't call members of the ministry "father".

Now then... Teachers isn't even in the verse:

Mat 23:8-10 (KJV)

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.


It's "master" and "Rabbi". I know you will run to another version of the Bible or maybe your Strong's concordance and find "teachers"... Fine. But the correct word is "master". This is because it actually WORKS! You will not find any instance in the NT of someone being called "Rabbi", "Master" or "Father" in a spiritual addressing. Teachers are a part of the ministry as noted by the first Bishop of Rome: Paul.
Yes, you will find people called "Master". But like "Father", it is not in a spiritual addressing.
Now here's the worst thing. When you say Jesus was using a hyperbole and exaggerating, you are saying "Yes, I know it's in the Bible, I know Jesus said it, but I don't think he really meant what he said."
First off, there is no reason to believe he was in this sense. He's not talking about moving mountains or mustard seeds. He is giving a command that actually is easy to obey.
So, anyone who says Jesus didn't mean what he said or was exaggerating is not one I can deal with. There is no sense in discussing things with them because even if you give the direct words of Jesus (and they must admit he did say it because it's there) they will fall back on the excuse. They will always hold the "Jesus didn't really mean what he said" card in their hand.

And believe me... Matthew 23:8-10 is not the only issue where the Babylonian Catholic Church does this.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh here we going again twisting scripture. So blind

Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Ecclesia has nothing to do woith catholic how long wil the lies be spread its not even a building, Apostays here it is right here corrupting the truth, making God a liar.

And, apparently - YOU have a serious reading comprehension problem.
I never said that "ekklesia" meant "Catholic." THIS is what I said - so take notes:

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας
The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced“ekklesia katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
Καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
Ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely

"Ekklesia Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC CHURCH.

I said "Kata-Holos" is where we get the term "Catholic" - and it's right out of the Bible (Acts 9:31).
If you're going to continue to argue and whine - at least TRY to be honest.

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is all easy to refute except for one thing. First off. Yes... people are called "father" in the Bible. Who??? Paternal men. Obviously, that is not what Jesus was talking about then. He was talking about calling a person "father" in a spiritual sense. In other words, don't call members of the ministry "father".

Now then... Teachers isn't even in the verse:

Mat 23:8-10 (KJV)

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.


It's "master" and "Rabbi". I know you will run to another version of the Bible or maybe your Strong's concordance and find "teachers"... Fine. But the correct word is "master". This is because it actually WORKS! You will not find any instance in the NT of someone being called "Rabbi", "Master" or "Father" in a spiritual addressing. Teachers are a part of the ministry as noted by the first Bishop of Rome: Paul.
Yes, you will find people called "Master". But like "Father", it is not in a spiritual addressing.
Now here's the worst thing. When you say Jesus was using a hyperbole and exaggerating, you are saying "Yes, I know it's in the Bible, I know Jesus said it, but I don't think he really meant what he said."
First off, there is no reason to believe he was in this sense. He's not talking about moving mountains or mustard seeds. He is giving a command that actually is easy to obey.
So, anyone who says Jesus didn't mean what he said or was exaggerating is not one I can deal with. There is no sense in discussing things with them because even if you give the direct words of Jesus (and they must admit he did say it because it's there) they will fall back on the excuse. They will always hold the "Jesus didn't really mean what he said" card in their hand.

And believe me... Matthew 23:8-10 is not the only issue where the Babylonian Catholic Church does this.

WRONG on ALL counts.

First of all – as I already showed you – Paul refers to himself as “Father” to the Corinthians (1 Cor. 4:15):
“For you can have 10,000 instructors in Christ, but you can’t have many fathers. For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel.”

This is a Father in a SPIRITUAL sense – NOT paternal.

The Greek word used in Matt. 23:8 is διδασκαλοσ (did-as'-kal-os), which means “TEACHER”.
This is the SAME word Paul uses in 1 Cor. 12:28 . . .

“And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third TEACHERS, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.”

Don't just quote the Bible. STUDY it and understand what it means . . .

 

[tom55]

Not buying any of your spin Bread of life... It's the same garbage your fellow Babylonians have tried to peddle before... YOU are trying to give me Bible lessons?!?! You couldn't teach a school of fish to swim!

1 john 2:13-14, Acts 7:2, Romans 9:10, 1 Corinthians 4:14-15 is all SPIN? I thought it was scripture. I thought it was The word of God.
Are you denying the word of God? Or is it just your Anti-Catholic bias showing?

 

[BreadOfLife]

1 john 2:13-14, Acts 7:2, Romans 9:10, 1 Corinthians 4:14-15 is all SPIN? I thought it was scripture. I thought it was The word of God.
Are you denying the word of God? Or is it just your Anti-Catholic bias showing?

He doesn't have a credible response. That's his whole problem - denial.

There is none so blind as the one who refuses to see . . .

 

[FHII]

WRONG on ALL counts.

First of all – as I already showed you – Paul refers to himself as “Father” to the Corinthians (1 Cor. 4:15):
“For you can have 10,000 instructors in Christ, but you can’t have many fathers. For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel.”

This is a Father in a SPIRITUAL sense – NOT paternal.

The Greek word used in Matt. 23:8 is διδασκαλοσ (did-as'-kal-os), which means “TEACHER”.
This is the SAME word Paul uses in 1 Cor. 12:28 . . .

“And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third TEACHERS, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.”

Don't just quote the Bible. STUDY it and understand what it means . . .

1 Cor 4:15
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

No....

 

[tom55]

1 Cor 4:15
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

No....

[SIZE=medium]Looks like you are AGREEING with BreadOfLife!!![/SIZE]

 

[BreadOfLife]

1 Cor 4:15
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

No....

When in doubt - go to the Greek . . .

For though you may have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, because I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
ἐὰν γὰρ μυρίουςπαιδαγωγοὺς ἔχητε ἐν Χριστῷ ἀλλ᾿ οὐ πολλοὺς πατέρας· ἐν γὰρ Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ διὰ τοῦ εὐαγγελίου ἐγὼ ὑμᾶςἐγέννησα.

[SIZE=11pt]Definition of πατέρας ([/SIZE]pat-ayr'): FATHER

Game.
Set.
MATCH.