David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Jesus doesn't say that His Second coming will be before the flood/trib. He said that before His second coming, people will be carrying on with their everyday lives regardless, just as people did before the flood came.
WATCH!
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He never said "second "
He gave 2 vivid distinct comings.
One before the flood/trib
One AFTER the trib.
The one after is in fact the second coming.
It even gives you the setting of one of them, so that nobody could miss it.
So they are distinguished easily, except for those with doctrinal modifications.
QUOTE
"Jesus never said he would gather “half of a group” in Matthew 24. You made that up."
Half of a group.
Tell Jesus he made it up.
Mat 24
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Luke 17
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Jesus either lied or is confused?
The setting ....PRETRIB IN ALL RAPTURE EXAMPLES
the ones taken...HALF.
Half in mat 24
Half in Luke 17
Half in mat 25
You were sayin?
POSTRIB WORKBOOK needs to be thrown out big time
QUOTE
"Since Jesus never taught that Sasquatch isn’t real, I can Therefore argue Jesus knew Sasquatch is real?"
That was in fact my point.
You didn't get it.
People in here building doctrine with PIVOT POINTS of what is not there.
No problem.
Carry on
QUOTE
"In the olivet discourse, Matthew 24:1-34, assuming I agree the rapture = the gathering, where do you believe Jesus mentions the rapture? Which verse?"
If you forget doctrine. Cast it aside for 30 seconds....
Jesus CLEARLY SAYS :
"BEFORE THE FLOOD, IN A PRETRIB SETTING, I TAKE HALF."
"WATCH AND BE READY."
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
note that is after your reference of verses 1-34.
Most here did not know of the other coming.
And even after posting it for years, it is hidden to every single postribber.
They do everything they can to twist it.
The Bible is a doctrine destroyer
Thank you for clarifying that you are just guessing/making things up. Instead of providing scripture, you provided a link to the UN, bravo.
And yet you have not shown one verse in revelation 5 that says the church is in heaven.
No one’s arguing that those redeemed and made a kingly priesthood to reign on earth (revelation 5:9-10) = the church.
These verses say nothing about the church being located in heaven. So I don’t known where you are getting that the church is in heaven in revelation 5? In chapter 5 The only beings that are mentioned as in heaven are God, the slain lamb, the elders, the beasts, and the angels. It doesn’t say anything about the church being in heaven.
What does that have to do with anything I said?
I think the problem is that you are making claims that are not actually present in scripture.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Well, I perhaps made the assumption that he wasn't referring to His first coming as the baby in Bethlehem's manger. That is His first coming. I don't agree that there are two further comings.
The parable of the 10 virgins has nothing to do with 50% being saved and 50% not within the Church. It has nothing to do with 50% or professors being genuine and 50% not. It has equally nothing to do with the percentage of society that will know Christ when He comes. The 50/50 breakdown is an earthly illustration relating to two types of people on earth when Jesus comes. These are two types of people you will find in any generation.
Those are not pre trib rapture examples. The Noah example is not an example of being “gathered”, but of being taken away in destruction.
The Noah example in vs 38-39 - who is taken away? Those outside the ark are the ones that were taken away by the flood. Therefore, contextually, it’s more likely that those taken away in vs 40-41 are those destroyed, and NOT gathered to the son of man.
In Matthew 24: 1-34, does the gathering of the elect occur before or after the great tribulation?
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*YAWN* Did I make up that there will be a 7 year covenant with many that is made? Did I make up that the Stephanos crown is given the rider on the white horse? Did I make up that the symbol of the UN is the Stephanos crown, the leaf crown of victory? Nope, nope, nope.
Well unless those 24 elders find a way for come out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation I'd say you have a problem with your logic..............again.
I think it's a bunch of wishful thinking on your part because it appears that you are looking forward to experiencing the great tribulation. You can't seem to find the verse that says we can escape ALL THESE THINGS that come to pass and to STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN.
Red herring and straw man.
I never said you made up the white rider being given a “Stephanos” crown.
What I did claim is that:
You can’t provide one verse in revelation 5 that shows the church is in heaven.
You can’t provide one verse in revelation that says the UN is the white rider.
You can’t provide one verse in revelation that says the white rider confirms a covenant let alone a 7 year one.
You are just making things up.
True, I read plenty of verse showing the saints (church) are on the earth until the second glorious bodily coming of Christ. Christ said so, and all the apostles, and Revelation 14 says so.
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
12 Here is the [g]patience of the saints; here[h] are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying [i]to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”
Revelation 13
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to [c]continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [d]tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the [e]patience and the faith of the saints.
This book is written to the church of believers, it is not written to a 'raptured church in heaven'
2 Thessalonians 1
1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy,
To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;
6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
2 Thessalonians 1
1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy,
To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;
6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
Revelation 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
And yet scripture says the rider on the white horse is given the Stephanos crown which happens to be the symbol of the UN. Apparently you are unable to do the math.
The prince that shall come will confirm a 7 year covenant. There are only two kings that are to come. The prince that shall come will become the 7th king when He is given the stephanos crown.
And we already know who the 8th king will be.
Davy
Well-Known Member
That Revelation 5 Scripture is FUTURE-TENSE for after... Christ has returned. The song they sing is the Song of Moses...
Rev 15:2-3
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
That is about a time after... Christ's future coming to end the tribulation and destruction of the beast Babylon harlot. For those to have "...gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name...," and be there at God's throne, it means they literally went through the "great tribulation" and overcame it through the Blood of Jesus Christ.
3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, "Great and marvellous are Thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are Thy ways, Thou King of saints.
KJV
THAT... is the timing which Revelation 5:9-10 is referring to, the time AFTER Christ's coming and ending of this present world.
Was the door shut pretrib/preflood?
You actually thinking there is a wicked people rapture before the flood?
Halt the world is wicked, and taken away?
Your theory totally falls apart..
You have to use a little common sense in an analogy.
At the Rapture there will not be , Noah, a flood, a boat, animals, torrential rain, or the entire earth void of people, nor your theory of half earths population wicked and half righteous.
How bizarre your theory is.
Literally impossible.
Context context context.
Rev 15
1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God
You are way off.
No second coming has happened.
The wrath is beginning.
Re read it.
You quoted me and never addressed the item of half taken.
That item alone destroys your theory.
You are saying over and over that half the world is wicked and half righteous.
Literally impossible.
Yet you keep proclaiming it.
Huh?
The postribbers "wicked people pretrib rapture", is flat out weird.
Nothing in the bible says that, or points to it.
Zero.
And yet it is their centerpiece?????
Crazy stuff.
Crazy stuff like that us why I say they have no verses.
They make it up.
Then the bible gets introduced and blows a hole in all their guesswork.
Whoever thought of the "wicked man pretrib rapture"...yall need to fire that bozo.
Nothing in the bible says that, or points to it.
Zero.
And yet it is their centerpiece?????
Crazy stuff.
Crazy stuff like that us why I say they have no verses.
They make it up.
Then the bible gets introduced and blows a hole in all their guesswork.
Whoever thought of the "wicked man pretrib rapture"...yall need to fire that bozo.
Nothing says the church is in heaven in these 2 verses.
You are just making stuff up.
That’s not ‘doing the math’; it’s doing anachronism. Stephanos means crown/wreath and was used for centuries before the UN existed. The UN using a wreath doesn’t make every stephanos in Scripture a reference to the UN. Show where Revelation identifies the rider with the UN. until then, You’re reading the UN into revelation, not the other way around.
you are just making stuff up.
Scripture never labels The rider on the white horse a king. Scripture never states The rider on the white horse confirms a covenant for 7 years.
You are making stuff up
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