We Are Approaching The 5th Seal Today

[Jay Ross]

Actually you are wrong, the locusts are NOT a future event as it has already come to pass.

Thank you for your response to my comments.

Would you mind telling me when the angel opened the the Bottomless pit such that the scorpions could rise up out of the Bottomless pit through the smoke and spread their fear of them?

I believe that this is in the distant future. You, if I am understanding your logic and "historical facts," are suggesting that it has already happened.

Can you provide other evidence that supports your claim?

 

[user]

Thank you for your response to my comments.
Would you mind telling me when the angel opened the the Bottomless pit such that the scorpions could rise up out of the Bottomless pit through the smoke and spread their fear of them?

Let's start at the top...

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Revelation 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.


During the Gulf War more than 600 Kuwaiti oil wells went up in flames and dramatic plumes of smoke turned day into night...

Revelation 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

Note scripture states the locusts have power "as the scorpians" have power.

Revelation 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

Hope this helps.
God Bless!

 

[Jay Ross]

Let's start at the top...

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Revelation 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.


During the Gulf War more than 600 Kuwaiti oil wells went up in flames and dramatic plumes of smoke turned day into night...

Revelation 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

The question I would ask then is, "How and when did the scorpions/locusts get put into the Bottomless Pit so they could be released from the bottomless pit as the Rev 9:1-12 passage suggests?

Edited because I had worded the question wrongly.

 

[user]

The question I would ask then is, "How and when did the scorpions get put into the Bottomless Pit so they could be released from the bottomless pit as the Rev 9:1-12 passage suggests?

You will need to provide scripture because we read SMOKE came out of the pit...

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Revelation 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

And out of the SMOKE came locusts...

Revelation 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

The locusts have power AS scorpions.

God Bless!

 

[Jay Ross]

My Bad, I have corrected my question: -

My reworded question is: -

"How and when did the scorpions/locusts get put into the Bottomless Pit so they could be released from the bottomless pit as the Rev 9:1-12 passage suggests?

 

[Davy]

Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who is the fairest/most honest of them all?

Davy when you can be honest in your posts, I will be happy to continue this conversation, but until then you can keep on keeping on with your opinions as to the truth of the matter.

Please, don't do me any favors. Having a conversation with those like yourself is like fighting a one-armed man.

 

[Brakelite]

Because all of you are vainly cleaving to the futurist hermeneutic not one of you can prove where you are because everything you are looking for is still in the future. And trying to glue prophecy that was all supposed to happen in a short period of time to current or recent events is just wishful thinking and guesswork.
If you are serious z really serious about understanding prophecy, I suggest you examine closely and open mindedly historicism. Because historicism, properly understood, would reveal that we are currently approaching the end of the sixth seal, the sixth trumpet, the letter to the sixth church, and Matthew 24:22-25... And the next major event is the mark of the beast followed by a short period of persecution against those who refuse it (Jacob's trouble) and then the second coming. This can be shown in a myriad of ways from many angles... And it's the only harmonious logical perspective that genuinely reveals the urgency of the times we are living in.

 

[Timtofly]

Because all of you are vainly cleaving to the futurist hermeneutic not one of you can prove where you are because everything you are looking for is still in the future. And trying to glue prophecy that was all supposed to happen in a short period of time to current or recent events is just wishful thinking and guesswork.
If you are serious z really serious about understanding prophecy, I suggest you examine closely and open mindedly historicism. Because historicism, properly understood, would reveal that we are currently approaching the end of the sixth seal, the sixth trumpet, the letter to the sixth church, and Matthew 24:22-25... And the next major event is the mark of the beast followed by a short period of persecution against those who refuse it (Jacob's trouble) and then the second coming. This can be shown in a myriad of ways from many angles... And it's the only harmonious logical perspective that genuinely reveals the urgency of the times we are living in.

It will be history when the rapture happens and the skies will be rolled back. We have to get through the 4th seal history first. All of the Seals, trumpets, and thunders only happen in a 3.5 year period. They are not spread out over time.

 

[Jay Ross]

Because all of you are vainly cleaving to the futurist hermeneutic not one of you can prove where you are because everything you are looking for is still in the future. And trying to glue prophecy that was all supposed to happen in a short period of time to current or recent events is just wishful thinking and guesswork.
If you are serious z really serious about understanding prophecy, I suggest you examine closely and open mindedly historicism. Because historicism, properly understood, would reveal that we are currently approaching the end of the sixth seal, the sixth trumpet, the letter to the sixth church, and Matthew 24:22-25... And the next major event is the mark of the beast followed by a short period of persecution against those who refuse it (Jacob's trouble) and then the second coming. This can be shown in a myriad of ways from many angles... And it's the only harmonious logical perspective that genuinely reveals the urgency of the times we are living in.

Really Backlit, your theological background has exposed your own weakness.

No one position is fully correct. There are always errors in our understanding, but the historicism position denies the unfolding of the events described by God in our future as will happen.

 

[Brakelite]

It will be history when the rapture happens and the skies will be rolled back. We have to get through the 4th seal history first. All of the Seals, trumpets, and thunders only happen in a 3.5 year period. They are not spread out over time.

Really Backlit, your theological background has exposed your own weakness.

No one position is fully correct. There are always errors in our understanding, but the historicism position denies the unfolding of the events described by God in our future as will happen.

Of course I expected perhaps a question or two asking, that's interesting, why do you believe the way you do? Can you give us some evidence supporting your beliefs?
But no. Same old myopic one eyed blinkered vision. The dead Jesuits who invented futurism will be laughing so much in the graves they will be causing earthquakes.

 

[Brakelite]

historicism position denies the unfolding of the events described by God in our future as will happen.

They were prophesied to happen in the future yes, but whose? Jesus will be appearing in the clouds and you will be asking, who's this? Can't be Jesus, because this and that is still future.

I'm not denying there still a few things to take place before Jesus comes... But not much. And you clearly have not, nor do you intend to investigate further. You've closed your mind to other possibilities and you do not think you are wrong despite your profession to the contrary.

 

[Jay Ross]

They were prophesied to happen in the future yes, but whose? Jesus will be appearing in the clouds and you will be asking, who's this? Can't be Jesus, because this and that is still future.

I'm not denying there still a few things to take place before Jesus comes... But not much. And you clearly have not, nor do you intend to investigate further. You've closed your mind to other possibilities and you do not think you are wrong despite your profession to the contrary.

Since coming to this forum, you have revealed your position often, so why do i have to go back over the same ground that we have already dialogued on.

When will Jesus be appearing in the clouds for us to all see Him? Is it a near future evert, or is it a distant future event?

A near future event will mean that it will happen within the next 30-40 years. A distant future event means that it will happen some 1,000 plus years into our future.

Backlit, which of these two possibilities is the one most likely to be the time when Jesus will appear in the clouds for all of mankind to see?

Shalom

 

[Jay Ross]

Of course I expected perhaps a question or two asking, that's interesting, why do you believe the way you do? Can you give us some evidence supporting your beliefs?
But no. Same old myopic one eyed blinkered vision. The dead Jesuits who invented futurism will be laughing so much in the graves they will be causing earthquakes.

Why do I have to ask questions concerning your understanding of the end time events?

For example, questions like: -

When did the gentile nations begin to trample God's Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts?

When did/will the fullness in time of the Gentiles nations trampling God's Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts come to its completion with respect to the prophesied time period?

When will the nation of Israel be redeemed?

When is Satan thrown out of heaven?

Who goes into the Bottomless Pit with Satan and when will this happen?

When will the Locusts be released from the Bottomless Pit?

When will we see the Beast who rises out of the Bottomless Pit and who goes into the lake of fire?

When will the Beast manifest itself in the sea to form an army?

When will we see the False Prophet?

When Is Christ given dominion over the peoples of the earth such that they should worship Him?

There are so many questions that could be answered, which have been discussed by you previously on this forum, that it is pointless for me to ask them of you when I have read your previous answers under a similar user name.

But I have posed some of the questions for you to respond to so that you can present your material once again for the new members to read.

Shalom

 

[Davy]

Because all of you are vainly cleaving to the futurist hermeneutic not one of you can prove where you are because everything you are looking for is still in the future. And trying to glue prophecy that was all supposed to happen in a short period of time to current or recent events is just wishful thinking and guesswork.
If you are serious z really serious about understanding prophecy, I suggest you examine closely and open mindedly historicism. Because historicism, properly understood, would reveal that we are currently approaching the end of the sixth seal, the sixth trumpet, the letter to the sixth church, and Matthew 24:22-25... And the next major event is the mark of the beast followed by a short period of persecution against those who refuse it (Jacob's trouble) and then the second coming. This can be shown in a myriad of ways from many angles... And it's the only harmonious logical perspective that genuinely reveals the urgency of the times we are living in.

I find that Historicists do the very same things that Preterists and Futurists do, and that is to modify God's Word to fit their pet doctrines.

For example, you started off with one in your very first sentence here, wrongly suggesting that the 5th trumpet events are history already. The 6th Trumpet has not begun yet, for that represents the great tribulation time, a time just prior to Christ's 2nd coming that requires God's two witnesses to show up in Jerusalem and prophesy against the beast and then be killed, with their dead bodies left laying in the street for three and one half days (Rev.11). Jesus returns on the 7th trumpet, so we know we aren't right next to that time yet, because the Antichrist has to come first to Jerusalem and play Messiah.

 

[Brakelite]

I find that Historicists do the very same things that Preterists and Futurists do, and that is to modify God's Word to fit their pet doctrines.

For example, you started off with one in your very first sentence here, wrongly suggesting that the 5th trumpet events are history already. The 6th Trumpet has not begun yet, for that represents the great tribulation time, a time just prior to Christ's 2nd coming that requires God's two witnesses to show up in Jerusalem and prophesy against the beast and then be killed, with their dead bodies left laying in the street for three and one half days (Rev.11). Jesus returns on the 7th trumpet, so we know we aren't right next to that time yet, because the Antichrist has to come first to Jerusalem and play Messiah.

I don't think you understand much about historicism at all.

 

[Keraz]

I don't think you understand much about historicism at all.

We can see that you don't know much history, as nothing Written in Revelation from Rev 6:12 to the end, has occurred as yet.

 

[Jay Ross]

We can see that you don't know much history, as nothing Written in Revelation from Rev 6:12 to the end, has occurred as yet.

A false claim. Revelation 16:12-21 has and is unfolding now. Look at the historical facts and what the world has experienced over the last 128 years. These nine verse describe accurately what has happened so far and what is to occur in our near future.

 

[Taken]

Gods Right and all the mankind of creatures are trying to declare WHAT has occurred and predict WHEN more will occur.

Scripture is clear:
Men can discover through Prophecy WHAT will Occur and in WHAT Order and by WHAT means (WAY)...
But NOT a precise Time/Day/Hour.

The SEALS (openings),
(..Begins Gods prophetic Word of Tribulation upon the Earth as the World has Never before or Will Again Experience)

Clue: the SEALS, (7), are Opened IN Heaven, BY the Lamb of God.

No Earthly man IS in Heaven TO Observe the SEALS Opening.

John, in the spirit, was ALLOWED to SEE, to forward in ink on paper, to Earthly men, WHAT he observed....while in the spirit...For the Future.
Rev 4:1
Rev 4:2

The SEALS openings Reveals...Gods ALLOWING...giving power to...what the World Governments have been clamoring about for years, and Many of the People at LARGE have been Begging for their independent Governments to Establish IN Union:
A ONE World Government...promoting, EFFECTING, assuring...World Peace and Safety!

The World government's have Been role modeling that idea on multiple scales for years...League of Nations, United Nations, Coalition of Arab Nations, European Union etc.

Man has to Wait to Observe...what is foretold.
The First Four SEAL openings...

Reveal; "something" is Given:
1) * power to Conquer
2) * power to Take peace
3) * power to Control buying and selling
4) * power to kill a Fourth of the population

These are NOT isolated incidents ... a war here, a war there; a market here and market there...

This is absolute World Effect in Every Nation Affecting All people.

I am not conquered, without peace, dictated what I can buy or sell, nor have I noticed nearly 2 Billion people (1/4 population) dying.
(More accurately...approx 35 MILLION out of 7.8 + BILLION) have died 2020.

So while some Preach, the Four SEALS IN Heaven Have been Opened...it is very Odd... that Every person ON Earth has not been Affected by this GREAT Power Given "something" (for BTW, a ONLY a short while does the "something" have this power)...and is...slow to USE his powers? (Since the WHOLE World is NOT Effected)?

Totally Disagree the SEALS Have been Opened.
Their is no ONE World Power Figure/Government Controlling the Entire World, ( in his "little" Time alotted).

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Keraz]

A false claim. Revelation 16:12-21 has and is unfolding now. Look at the historical facts and what the world has experienced over the last 128 years. These nine verse describe accurately what has happened so far and what is to occur in our near future.

You would be the first I have seen who believes Armageddon has happened.
Accurately, you said? When did those hundredweight hailstones fall onto people? Rev 16:21

 

[Jay Ross]

You would be the first I have seen who believes Armageddon has happened.
Accurately, you said? When did those hundredweight hailstones fall onto people? Rev 16:21

What did it write?

This is what i wrote: -

A false claim. Revelation 16:12-21 has and is unfolding now. Look at the historical facts and what the world has experienced over the last 128 years. These nine verse describe accurately what has happened so far and what is to occur in our near future.

You have rebutted my post by falsely claim that I said that Armageddon has already happened.

What I plainly said was that Revelations 16:12-21 has and is unfolding now.

I made not claim that Armageddon has already happened. In fact I have consistently stated that the Judgement of the Kings of the earth will occur in our near future at Armageddon.

If you cannot read and report accurately what I have previously posted, then how can you justify making false claims to rebut what I have previously posted concerning when Revelation 16:12-21 will occur?