We are eternal beings!

[Phoneman777]

And so now, you are reduced to a man speaking an allegory about himself and others, as being the same as Jesus revealing the truth of hell.

Therefore, even worse now, everything in Scripture to you, is nothing but allegory.

Which is true, wherever you want it to be.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

No, I'm pointing out how you make it up as you go.

1) You claimed that parables are always declared to be such before they're presented to "prove" the Rich Man and Lazarus is a literal story since Jesus didn't identify it as a parable before speaking it...

2) I showed you Jotham makes no such declaration before speaking what even a blind man can see is a parable.

But, of course, you stubbornly refuse to admit to your subjective, Biblically unsubstantiated argument, which is par for the course.

 

[robert derrick]

2) I showed you Jotham makes no such declaration before speaking what even a blind man can see is a parable.

Exactly. When speaking of oneself in allegory form, it's always obvious.

The same as when speaking of other real people literally.

Jesus went to hell to preach by the Spirit, and His soul was not left there after the resurrection of His body.

End of debate.

 

[bbyrd009]

Once in a while it's a good idea to just sit still and close your eyes, and shut out the world and all its noise and clamor. That is not what's real, as appealing as it might look to us when our eyes are open and taking it all in.We live in a body that is wonderfully made by God. No matter what age you are, dear reader, you are slowly dying. That is, your body is slowly dying. BUT your soul (your spirit) can not cease to exist. You are your soul, not your body. We spend far more time than we should attending to the health and beauty of the body and far too little time attending to the health and beauty of our souls (especially since our souls will live forever, for we are created in the image of God, the Bible tells us). AND God IS. Time does not have anything to do with Him. He IS Eternal; He never began, and He will never end, nor will He ever change.Your body will lie in a coffin, as will mine. But "we" (our souls) won't stay in the coffin. We must get rid of this corrupt body and inherit the incorruptible body God has prepared already for us who believe in His Son and His saving act on the Cross.In first Corinthians 15:53-55, God's Word tells us, "For this persihable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written, 'Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?' "No human being will ever cease to exist. A person will live either in eternal happiness with God in heaven or suffer internal torment in Hell with Satan and his evil devils.waynemlj

not sure youre even around anymore? (cant tell with the new format) and im sure you are focused on becoming immortal, but fwiw “eternal” does not mean forever, they had another term for “forever” that is not used in those places, point being that you might be reading that through the lens of your desires, and you might keep an open mind there

 

[robert derrick]

Another proof the eternal soul is not the mortal body. nor just a part thereof:

Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

The mortal flesh is just a temporary tabernacle for the spirit and soul of man.

The soul puts it off, when we depart this world.

 

[Phoneman777]

Exactly. When speaking of oneself in allegory form, it's always obvious.

The same as when speaking of other real people literally.

Jesus went to hell to preach by the Spirit, and His soul was not left there after the resurrection of His body.

End of debate.

Sorry, but you don't get to change your story, friend ------ YOU SAID before someone in the Bible gives a parable, he always lets us know he is...and then you claimed since Jesus didn't say He was about to speak in parable before He gave the Rich Man and Lazarus story, that means the passage is literal, not parabolic.

ARE YOU GOING TO STAND BY YOUR WORDS OR DO I HAVE TO DIG THE POST UP FOR EVERYONE TO SEE??????

What followed was me debunking your claim by showing you that Jotham made no such announcement before speaking his parable, and you should either retract it or get busy preaching that trees can walk, talk, and make horrible life choices.

 

[robert derrick]

Sorry, but you don't get to change your story, friend ------ YOU SAID before someone in the Bible gives a parable, he always lets us know he is...and then you claimed since Jesus didn't say He was about to speak in parable before He gave the Rich Man and Lazarus story, that means the passage is literal, not parabolic.

ARE YOU GOING TO STAND BY YOUR WORDS OR DO I HAVE TO DIG THE POST UP FOR EVERYONE TO SEE??????

What followed was me debunking your claim by showing you that Jotham made no such announcement before speaking his parable, and you should either retract it or get busy preaching that trees can walk, talk, and make horrible life choices.

You strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.

The argument is about mortal soul theology, that Scripture disproves. Jesus went to hell for 3 days, while His body remained in the grave. And His soul was not left in hell, when His body was resurrected.

Another argument is about identifying parables, allegories, and mysteries in the Bible, that are not to be taken literally.

I stand corrected by your example. And so, either Scripture will plainly be an allegory, that no one can mistake, or it will identify itself as parable, allegory, or mystery to ensure the reader understands it.

Allegories were only prophetically used in the OT, and they never needed identify themselves as such, because it was plainly representing the conditions of the times.

In the gospels, Jesus fulfilled the prophecy that He would speak many parables to the people, and when He does so, Scripture makes it clear.

By your correction, this is now the proper teaching about parables, allegories, and mysteries in Scripture. Thanks.

And Jesus' soul was not left in hell after three days, when His body was resurrected from the grave.

The God of Israel never ceased to exist. Neither does anything He created, become uncreated, including the hearts of angels and the souls of men.

 

[Phoneman777]

You strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.

And you swallow false lies of false pulpit prophets, friend.

The argument is about mortal soul theology, that Scripture disproves. Jesus went to hell for 3 days, while His body remained in the grave. And His soul was not left in hell, when His body was resurrected.

Inclusive Reckoning has Jesus dying just before Sabbath, resting on Sabbath sleeping the sleep of death, and rising sometime Sunday morning, which satisfies the "3 days and 3 nights" Jonah object lesson. "Inclusive Reckoning", got it? Look it up.
Allegories were only prophetically used in the OT, and they never needed identify themselves as such, because it was plainly representing the conditions of the times.

In the gospels, Jesus fulfilled the prophecy that He would speak many parables to the people, and when He does so, Scripture makes it clear. By your correction, this is now the proper teaching about parables, allegories, and mysteries in Scripture. Thanks.

Just keep making it up as you go, right? Look, a parable is known not by someone announcing they're speaking a parable, but by the things contained therein, which are things which cannot and do not happen in real experience! The dead folks in Luke 16 have BODY PARTS which is Biblically impossible for those who are in the state of being dead! Body parts are worn only by the living! Your made up "disembodied body parts" doesn't have a single shred of Biblical evidence to establish it, so abandon it and stop adding to Scripture!

 

[DJT_47]

Not quite. Before we were, we weren't. If we were truly eternal, we would have always existed as God has always existed. Not the case with us.

 

[robert derrick]

? Look, a parable is known not by someone announcing they're speaking a parable,

Is known by Scripture saying so.

but by the things contained therein, which are things which cannot and do not happen in real experience!

Cannot allowed to happen nor be happening in the only experience of the natural minded, which is this life only of mortal flesh and blood.

You have your own naturalized theology and parable gospel, that is a false shadow of the true gospel in Scripture.

Thanks for the correction about how to accurately teach about allegories and parables in Scripture.

 

[robert derrick]

Not quite. Before we were, we weren't. If we were truly eternal, we would have always existed as God has always existed. Not the case with us.

Yes, this is the natural philosophy, that certain Christian philosophers used to say there is no resurrection of the dead, including that of Jesus Christ, which was rebuked in 1 Cor 15.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

It goes like this: Since any eternal immortal being must be immortal like the eternal God, without beginning, then it is not possible for God to create an eternal being like Himself, for they would have a beginning.

Likewise, it is also impossible for any created mortal being, to become eternal, because they would have a beginning of immortality.

Such natural philosophers reject Scripture as saying that Christ creates souls in the immortal image of God, but are only mortal souls of flesh and blood created in the image of God's light of spiritual understanding, which we only have for a season in mortal bodies.

Conclusion: There can be no creation of eternal beings, nor resurrection of the dead, and changing mortality into immortality.

And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

 

[Phoneman777]

Cannot allowed to happen nor be happening in the only experience of the natural minded, which is this life only of mortal flesh and blood.

There you go again, implying those who disagree with you are unconverted - please stop violating the TOS...and stop being so stubborn, friend!

>I show you dead Rich Man and company have body parts - you claim they're "disembodied soul bodies".

>I show you Abraham's bosom is too small for all the dead saints - you claim it's "literal symbolic literalism".

>I show you "the dead (the whole being, not just their bodies) know not anything" - you claim they know everything.

>I show you dead people "go down into silence" - you claim they can walk, talk, and make all kindsa ruckus.

You have your own naturalized theology and parable gospel, that is a false shadow of the true gospel in Scripture. Thanks for the correction about how to accurately teach about allegories and parables in Scripture.

Wow! You, the "spiritual man" who knows everything needs to be instructed by me, a "natural man" who knows nothing?

 

[robert derrick]

Wow! You, the "spiritual man" who knows everything needs to be instructed by me, a "natural man" who knows nothing?

I never said you were ignorant and natural minded in all things, but only in your natural theology of mortal souls, that are only flesh and blood. You don't want there to be any torment in hell nor the lake of fire, so you imagine you can doctrinally do away with it.

If you are fearful of not waking in the presence of the Lord, when departing your flesh, that is not my problem nor fault. If you were seeking the way not to be fearful, then I would try to help you, but you don't want any such help.

When I get a good correction, I say so and give honor to whom it is due. And, unlike some others, I don't cling to any teaching that can be properly corrected.

Such as, I no longer hold to the old Jewish tradition of being born sinners, neither spiritually in the soul, nor mortally in flesh and blood.

Of course, mortal soul theology was a non-starter with me, even though I had never heard it trying to be taught before.

 

[Phoneman777]

I never said you were ignorant and natural minded in all things, but only in your natural theology of mortal souls, that are only flesh and blood.

When I get a good correction, I say so and give honor to whom it is due. And, unlike some others, I don't cling to any teaching that can be properly corrected.

Such as, I no longer hold to the old Jewish tradition of being born sinners, neither spiritually in the soul, nor mortally in flesh and blood.

Of course, mortal soul theology was a non-starter with me.

Again, please try to follow:

Q. If the immortality that belongs only to God pertains to His entire being, how can it pertain to anything less than the entire being of those to whom it is granted (you claim only the "body" requires immortality while the soul is already immortal)?

A. It isn't limited to their "bodies" - it's granted to our entire being, as well -- which means there isn't a single thing immortal about us at the present.