WE ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS...WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

[justbyfaith]

The OT is abolished, regarding the born again.

Except that the principles of the moral law are written on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers (Hebrews 8:8-10; Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14; Romans 5:5;...Romans 7:6).

 

[quietthinker]

WE ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS...WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
It means, if you're in a chain gang there'll always be another railroad to build!

 

[Behold]

Except that the principles of the moral law are written on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers

All you wrote is Meaningless to save you.

The Law isn't the savior.
Works are not the savior.
Water is not the savior.
Faith is not the savior.

So, there went your entire self deceived theology.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Law isn't the savior.
Works are not the savior.
Water is not the savior.
Faith is not the savior.

I am not teaching that any of those things are the Saviour.

We are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8); and water baptism doth also now save us (1 Peter 3:20-21)...but works and law-keeping are the result of a genuine salvation; not the catalyst for it.

 

[Grailhunter]

WE ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS...WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
It means, if you're in a chain gang there'll always be another railroad to build!

LOL Belly roll! That is good.

Here ya go....
Works...so misunderstood
In the biblical era and for the first 400 years of Christianity...works as in doing what we are told to do in the salvation process...ie Act 2:38 etc...believe, repent, baptism, communion was not a debatable issue. This type of works was not a foul word for Christians, Christians did what they were told to do by Christ and the Apostles. You will see no one in the Bible debating what baptism does or if you need to do it or not. You will see no one in the Bible debating what communion does or if you need to do communion or not. The early Christians had no issues with any of this nor did the Early Church Fathers...Some of the early Christians knew the Apostles and they did not object to things they were told to do. Challenges to the process of salvation did not occur until the Gnostics began to expand.

The distain for "works" is due to the Protestant reform where what Paul said, became a battle cry....justified by faith apart from works....This has nothing to do with what Christ and the Apostles told us to do. Acts 2:38 etc...absolutely nothing...it is one of the great misunderstandings that the Protestants took to heart

What caused all this is that the Catholic Church decided that they had authority over salvation. They could give it or deny it. Things you had to do for it and disobedience to Papal bulls could deny you salvation and heaven. The Protestants defined this as works.

Martin Luther rightly took exception to this when he posted his 95 Theses on the door of the castle Church in Wittenberg, Germany on October 31, 1517. There was a great deal of animosity about the Catholic church's assertion that it had authority over salvation and "what you had to do" to get it...and also there was also issues with corruption and atrocities and some of the Catholics and Protestants went to war with each other.

This whole thing where people say and post that we are saved by faith, not by works....is all about soap box holier than thou stuff, because they are preaching to the choir. People on this forum do not believe they are saved by works. But the negative intensity and focus on works is misdirected due to a long standing, misunderstanding. Belief, repentance, baptism, and communion are not a violations of faith...They are what Christ and the Apostles told us to do. Good Deeds do not save us, but as James said, what good is faith without Good Deeds?

Belief, repentance, baptism, communion....Christ and the Apostles were not lying to us or trying to lead us astray. These things are not a challenges to faith. Christ was not showing off when He helped people, He was setting an example. An example that He explained in Matthew 25:31-46 James was not saying that Good Deeds save us, but the scriptures indicate that there are rewards for Good Deeds. So the question that James posed was, what is faith without Good Deeds? We say that salvation is a free gift...ask Christ if it was free. He died to provide us with salvation, are we are going to sit like a bump on a log? You might want to read the parable of Talents and see what happened to that person. Matthew 25:14-30.

 

[quietthinker]

I've got no issue with works....whether it's the tap or the burger.

I think the issue is that lawlessness is favoured but not admitted....even to the self. If this wasn't he case there wouldn't be such an outcry against law!
The love of coveting is not even on the radar of self awareness let alone spoken of.....it's just plain inconvenient to mention it let alone bring it into focus!

 

[Grailhunter]

I've got no issue with works....whether it's the tap or the burger.

I think the issue is that lawlessness is favoured but not admitted....even to the self. If this wasn't he case there wouldn't be such an outcry against law!
The love of coveting is not even on the radar of self awareness let alone spoken of.....it's just plain inconvenient to mention it let alone bring it into focus!

There ya go...

 

[Behold]

and water baptism doth also now save us (1 Peter 3:20-21)..

Heretics always teach that water saved Noah.
But that isn't the case.
See, that FLOOD killed every living thing that was breathing, that was in it.
Had Noah and family gotten in that water, they would have DIED along with the Homosexuals.
So, that water didn't save Noah.
The Ark that kept them OUT of the WATER, is what saved them.

See, God told them to build an ARK, so that they stayed OUT of the Water.
So, READER.... when a theological nut-bar teaches that "water saved Noah", you are listing to a ranting fool, a deceiver, who is probably a part of the "cult of the Virgin".

 

[Philip James]

We say that salvation is a free gift...ask Christ if it was free. He died to provide us with salvation, are we are going to sit like a bump on a log?

Hi Grailhunter,

That made me think of this:

Jesus said to him, "Rise, take up your mat, and walk."

(So much easier to sit like a bump on a log lol)

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Grailhunter]

We don't always know where are walk with Christ will take us. After I retired I was planning on touring in a large fifth wheel for a while. I am still working on that. Anyway I logged on to this site to take a look at international Christian beliefs. I stepped in to a warzone. The Calvinists were circling the ladies and shooting red bold letter posts of condemnation at them...like they did not deserve to live... (Calvinists generally do not believe in the feminine voice in Christianity. You will notice not too many female Calvinists on this forum.) So after I beat them back I settled in and started reading the debates...They were slinging scriptures back and forth at each other. So knowing that if someone realizes something on their own, the point can be better received. I started giving them hints.

So I went to my database and started posting the lists of scriptures for both sides of the debates. They did not catch on. So I explained why I was doing it. They still did not catch on. I challenged the forum to harmonize the scriptures to come up with the overall meaning....no takers So then they continued to throw scriptures at each other.

If you ever wondered how all these denominations formed, this is mostly how it happens. Some one finds some scriptures they like...mostly how they do here... and pick one side or the other and make a denomination out of it. I have told them several times that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

When you read the scriptures you are reading the religious literary writing style of the era. They did not write things like we write our driving manuals or traffic laws...Can you imagine what driving would be like? The Apostles are not trying to present two different religious beliefs...it is the style. In one place they can discuss the blessing of forgiveness and Grace and in another place list the sins that will send you to hell regardless. It is the writing style of the time period. In its own way they were trying to express a feeling of the divine. Make you think!

So that is why to understand the scriptures you have to consider them as a whole and truth is in the middle or a combination of them. If you go to one side or the other, you are going to be at the extreme ends, you should be able to tell that alone, neither end makes sense.

Centuries later, after they combined the texts in a Bible, people looking at these scriptures, where not able to understand a lot of them. So they came up with the conclusion that if it does not make sense....that is the thing that makes it divine....like God was not smart enough to communicate to us at our level. That He failed at His attempt to communicate with us. So they started to come up with doctrines that made absolutely no sense on the premise that that was what made them divinely correct.

I have explained some of this before...You have to understand the scriptures as a whole or you are not going to understand the Bible and you are likely to develop...formulate some klondike beliefs.

 

[justbyfaith]

Heretics always teach that water saved Noah.
But that isn't the case.
See, that FLOOD killed every living thing that was breathing, that was in it.
Had Noah and family gotten in that water, they would have DIED along with the Homosexuals.
So, that water didn't save Noah.
The Ark that kept them OUT of the WATER, is what saved them.

See, God told them to build an ARK, so that they stayed OUT of the Water.
So, READER.... when a theological nut-bar teaches that "water saved Noah", you are listing to a ranting fool, a deceiver, who is probably a part of the "cult of the Virgin".

Those who are of the world will listen to you eagerly (1 John 4:5).

Those who are being spoken to by the Spirit of God will heed what the holy scriptures have to say on the matter apart from commentary that convolutes the issue (see also 1 John 4:6).

 

[Philip James]

We don't always know where are walk with Christ will take us. After I retired I was planning on touring in a large fifth wheel for a while

I've got a dozen years to go, then hope to get a nice RV, drive FAR south for the winter with my wife, and come back in the summer and bug the kids

But then:

'men make plans and God laughs'



Peace!

 

[MatthewG]

People say that we are not saved by works.
That there is nothing that we do on our own that can save us.
People say this all the time...but is it true...or does the statement mean something that is misunderstood. Lets put in motion.

Billy is not a Christian. He is sitting on his couch watching a football game. Happy go luck and he is not thinking about Christianity and the only thing he is doing is eating chips and drinking tea.

So the question is, how does Billy get saved without works?...He is not thinking anything in particular and not doing anything. So how does it happen?

Hello Grailhunter,

You pose an interesting question.

Billy just might be a Christian, he might actually pray more than one could know. He trys to encourage and love others while he also attends to his family, and his children while being there to help them. Always they pray, and trust in God, but right now Billy is just sitting there enjoying a nice bag of (your favorite chips here) , and some tea.

Also Grailhunter for me am a big fan of tea, with sugar in it. Also enjoy hot tea.

 

[Philip James]

Billy just might be a Christian, he might actually pray more than one could know. He trys to encourage and love others while he also attends to his family, and his children while being there to help them

Sounds like some good works there!
Good job Billy!

 

[Grailhunter]

I've got a dozen years to go, then hope to get a nice RV, drive FAR south for the winter with my wife, and come back in the summer and bug the kids

But then:

'men make plans and God laughs'



Peace!

It should happen pretty soon.

 

[Grailhunter]

Hello Grailhunter,

You pose an interesting question.

Billy just might be a Christian, he might actually pray more than one could know. He trys to encourage and love others while he also attends to his family, and his children while being there to help them. Always they pray, and trust in God, but right now Billy is just sitting there enjoying a nice bag of (your favorite chips here) , and some tea.

Also Grailhunter for me am a big fan of tea, with sugar in it. Also enjoy hot tea.

There ya go

 

[Behold]

Those who are of the world will listen to you eagerly .

The people that can hear me, are not the "natural man" or the "natural mind".
This is why you can't hear me.

 

[theefaith]

Acts of the Apostles 16:31
...Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Then the works follow upon increasing in the knowledge of God out of scripture:

Colossians 1:9-10 KJVS
[9] For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; [10] That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God

you must choose to believe and must continue in a state of believing until you die to be saved! Jn 3:16 matt 24:13
That’s works

 

[theefaith]

Same as it was for me . GOD ALONE PUTS IT INTO THEIR HEARTS .
AS HE DID INTO MINE .
I did not bring myself to faith in JESUS , nor did i change my heart direction . GOD DID .

then all will be saved? Yes?

 

[theefaith]

What about the necessity for baptism and the sacraments instituted by Christ?