We Can't Stop Sinning?

[Bob Estey]

Jesus told us to repent (Matthew 4:17). I'm sure people can come up with a thousand definitions for "repent," but if it doesn't require we stop sinning, then it doesn't really mean anything at all, does it?

So why do people keep telling me we can't stop sinning?

 

[Lambano]

So why do people keep telling me we can't stop sinning?

Because it has been the universal experience of Christians who are honest with themselves that "we do not love God with our whole heart, we fail to be an obedient Church, we still break His laws in thought, word, and deed, we do not love our neighbor as ourselves, and we do not hear the cry of the needy".

 

[MatthewG]

Because we are not the Word of God made flesh. Now that the Spirit of Christ dwells within us, there is aspect of help in which leads us to do the right thing, however I body may desire differently. From the course of my life from what use to be done as a younger adolescent, and now towards adulthood, a lot of my old actions have kinda of slowly died down. Perhaps you get to live long enough, you probably wont sin as much as you did when you were younger, but the chances of it happening become a lot less, as one builds their foundation of the Lord Yeshua. Having no obligation to do anything, it's only by abiding in Christ that anything is done that is remotely pertaining to spiritual attributes that come through.

James 3:13-18​

Heavenly Versus Demonic Wisdom​

13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and [a]self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

Galatians 5​

Walking in the Spirit​

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: [d]adultery, [e]fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, [f]murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 [g]gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

John 15 (Jesus speaking to his chosen apostles - always something to glenn from here)​

The True Vine​

15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He [a]takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you[b] will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

 

[Bob Estey]

Because it has been the universal experience of Christians who are honest with themselves that "we do not love God with our whole heart, we fail to be an obedient Church, we still break His laws in thought, word, and deed, we do not love our neighbor as ourselves, and we do not hear the cry of the needy".

God gave us a few commandments to obey. Are they really that difficult?

 

[Davy]

Makes no sense to argue about this kind of thing, per Galatians 3:22, Apostle Paul said the Scriptures have concluded us all... under sin, so that the promise by Faith on Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 1 is our reference for 'believers' on Jesus Christ when we mess up at times.

And how strange it is that those who think they can never sin again after having believing on Jesus Christ and baptized, do not realize that kind of thinking means they 'equate' themselves to be The Christ, or God, when they are not. And their holier-than-thou attitude shows it.

 

[Bob Estey]

Makes no sense to argue about this kind of thing, per Galatians 3:22, Apostle Paul said the Scriptures have concluded us all... under sin, so that the promise by Faith on Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 1 is our reference for 'believers' on Jesus Christ when we mess up at times.

And how strange it is that those who think they can never sin again after having believing on Jesus Christ and baptized, do not realize that kind of thinking means they 'equate' themselves to be The Christ, or God, when they are not. And their holier-than-thou attitude shows it.

It seems to me, once we understand what sin is, that we should be able to stop sinning. I'm not saying I am there yet, but I think it's wrong to claim that it is impossible. Jesus told us to repent. Are supposed to ignore him?

 

[Lambano]

God gave us a few commandments to obey. Are they really that difficult?

Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength; and love your neighbor as yourself. Sounds easy, until you contemplate what loving God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself really entails. “Sell all that you have, give it to the poor, and come follow me.” Loving someone is open-ended and thus more difficult than the proscriptive “thou shalt nots”.

 

[Bob Estey]

Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength; and love your neighbor as yourself. Sounds easy, until you contemplate what loving God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself really entails. “Sell all that you have, give it to the poor, and come follow me.” Loving someone is open-ended and thus more difficult than the proscriptive “thou shalt nots”.

There are ten commandments that help define the two great ones, and the rest of the Bible further defines them. I think it's wise to obey the Ten Commandments.

 

[Davy]

It seems to me, once we understand what sin is, that we should be able to stop sinning. I'm not saying I am there yet, but I think it's wrong to claim that it is impossible. Jesus told us to repent. Are supposed to ignore him?

We can only 'try'... to stop sinning. Being in Christ Jesus means when we mess up we repent to Him and ask Him forgiveness, and He is faithful to forgive us. This per 1 John 1.

Everything in this present world wants to be 'perfect', but it cannot be. It's just the way God designed this present world time of imperfection because of Satan's rebellion. When our body (spirit with soul) is redeemed by Jesus at His coming, with our putting off this flesh, then we will sin no more, ever and actually be perfect. But until that time, we can only be 'counted' perfect by Him through our Faith on Him in this present world.

 

[Bob Estey]

We can only 'try'... to stop sinning. Being in Christ Jesus means when we mess up we repent to Him and ask Him forgiveness, and He is faithful to forgive us. This per 1 John 1.

Everything in this present world wants to be 'perfect', but it cannot be. It's just the way God designed this present world time of imperfection because of Satan's rebellion. When our body (spirit with soul) is redeemed by Jesus at His coming, with our putting off this flesh, then we will sin no more, ever and actually be perfect. But until that time, we can only be 'counted' perfect by Him through our Faith on Him in this present world.

Jesus didn't tell us to try to repent, He told us to repent.

 

[Davy]

Jesus didn't tell us to try to repent, He told us to repent.

You have to take into account the 'whole' Bible. That prevents 'absolutist' thinking that you are doing. Read Romans 3 through 5, for Christ's Salvation is not by the works of the law, but by Faith on Jesus Christ.

And that is the exact position you put yourself in too, IF... you believe you can be perfect while in the flesh. Only Lord Jesus Himself was perfect in the flesh with NO sin ever.

So like I said before, the Occultists like to think they can do their own salvation by achieving perfection of their flesh, and thus become their own God, they think. But that is only temptation by the devil they follow.

 

[Chadrho]

Jesus told us to repent (Matthew 4:17). I'm sure people can come up with a thousand definitions for "repent," but if it doesn't require we stop sinning, then it doesn't really mean anything at all, does it?

So why do people keep telling me we can't stop sinning?

Repentance is a way of life. Sin is part of the human condition. We are spirituality immature by default and must grow into Christ-likeness. Sin is primarily a problem of the will but intimately connected with the intellect and logizmoi (evil thoughts), as the ancient Christians put it. Becoming like Christ, i.e., becoming fully mature in spirit so that we have a pure heart and mind is a life long process. Our only freedom from sin in this life is continual repentance and grace, but the need for repentance is constant since we are always capable of sin in this life. Perfection, i.e., sinlessness, is a gift we receive after death. So although our sin may change and even lessen to a significant degreee, we can't stop sinning in toto, and we should not stop repenting. Repentance, i.e., turning our basic orientation toward God, is a way of life. In the next age, we won't be able to turn away from God.

 

[Bob Estey]

You have to take into account the 'whole' Bible. That prevents 'absolutist' thinking that you are doing. Read Romans 3 through 5, for Christ's Salvation is not by the works of the law, but by Faith on Jesus Christ.

And that is the exact position you put yourself in too, IF... you believe you can be perfect while in the flesh. Only Lord Jesus Himself was perfect in the flesh with NO sin ever.

So like I said before, the Occultists like to think they can do their own salvation by achieving perfection of their flesh, and thus become their own God, they think. But that is only temptation by the devil they follow.

The "whole Bible" (or the rest of the Bible) does not negate something the Lord said to us.

 

[Bob Estey]

Repentance is a way of life. Sin is part of the human condition. We are spirituality immature by default and must grow into Christ-likeness. Sin is primarily a problem of the will but intimately connected with the intellect and logizmoi (evil thoughts), as the ancient Christians put it. Becoming like Christ, i.e., becoming fully mature in spirit so that we have a pure heart and mind is a life long process. Our only freedom from sin in this life is continual repentance and grace, but the need for repentance is constant since we are always capable of sin in this life. Perfection, i.e., sinlessness, is a gift we receive after death. So although our sin may change and even lessen to a significant degreee, we can't stop sinning in toto, and we should not stop repenting. Repentance, i.e., turning our basic orientation toward God, is a way of life. In the next age, we won't be able to turn away from God.

I would say "repentance" means we stop committing sin. If it takes someone a whole lifetime, then it takes someone a whole lifetime, but why wait that long?

 

[Chadrho]

I would say "repentance" means we stop committing sin. If it takes someone a whole lifetime, then it takes someone a whole lifetime, but why wait that long?

It depends on what you mean by sin. The early Christians to which I referred were serious about having a "pure heart," as they put, which included repentance from more than just overt acts like greed, gluttony, or stealing. It included things like pride, vanity, anger, and vain-glory, all of which are or can be internal, and they feed overt acts. One can sin without lifting a finger. At any rate, if you're telling me all your desires, thoughts, and intentions are in line with the divine will, then I hope you will forgive my incredulity.

 

[Bob Estey]

It depends on what you mean by sin. The early Christians to which I referred were serious about having a "pure heart," as they put, which included repentance from more than just overt acts like greed, gluttony, or stealing. It included things like pride, vanity, anger, and vain-glory, all of which are or can be internal, and they feed overt acts. One can sin without lifting a finger. At any rate, if you're telling me all your desires, thoughts, and intentions are in line with the divine will, then I hope you will forgive my incredulity.

The definition of sin is important, I believe. I don't think every little thing we do is a sin. I think you actually have to break one of the Ten Commandments for that to happen. We have the right to have mistaken thoughts. Mistaken actions are something else.

 

[Chadrho]

The definition of sin is important, I believe. I don't think every little thing we do is a sin. I think you actually have to break one of the Ten Commandments for that to happen. We have the right to have mistaken thoughts. Mistaken actions are something else.

If one's conception is limited to the ten commandments, then I supposed repenting once seems more likely. Although, coveting is one of those sneaky impulses that can escape our attention, and it seems to be the one commandment that woke Paul out of his legalistic slumber. But, yeah, how we define things can make a significant difference.

 

[Bob Estey]

If one's conception is limited to the ten commandments, then I supposed repenting once seems more likely. Although, coveting is one of those sneaky impulses that can escape our attention, and it seems to be the one commandment that woke Paul out of his legalistic slumber. But, yeah, how we define things can make a significant difference.

I think you really have to do something before you've committed a sin. I think we have the right to have mistaken thoughts.

So the question is: Can we resist the temptation to do bad things?

 

[Lambano]

I think you really have to do something before you've committed a sin. I think we have the right to have mistaken thoughts.

I think that's too limited of an understanding of what sin is:

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’; 28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5:27-28)

17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. (Exodus 20:17)

17 So for one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, for him it is sin. (James 4:17)

So, you have sins of thought and sins of omission. Now do you see why I say it is VERY difficult to stop sinning?

 

[Bob Estey]

I think that's too limited of an understanding of what sin is:

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’; 28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5:27-28)

17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. (Exodus 20:17)

17 So for one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, for him it is sin. (James 4:17)

So, you have sins of thought and sins of omission. Now do you see why I say it is VERY difficult to stop sinning?

I don't think so. I don't think we have to worry about our every move or thought. I think we just have a few lines we mustn't cross. The Ten Commandments, I think, are a good guide. I think Jeremiah 31:33 gives some insight. I think God shows us what he expects of us as we walk with him. It takes time.