We have to wait? Says who?

[Bob Estey]

Of course it's folly.
Some here are learning theology from the internet.

So let me ask you this Bob:
What IS the kingdom of God?

Is it in heaven....or did Paul also mean that it's here on earth right now?

Just to clarify, it was Jesus, not Paul, who I was quoting.

Before I tell you where heaven is, I believe we need to understand WHAT heaven is.

Is heaven a beautiful place or is it peace of mind?

What good is a beautiful place if we don't have peace of mind?

I believe heaven is peace of mind, and I believe Jesus is telling us how to attain peace of mind here: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 4:17

 

[Bob Estey]

Yes, but we just haven't fully realized it. We haven't been redeemed, nor have we received are new eternal bodies, treasures/ rewards in heaven, nor the realm of heaven itself. We have an inheritance.
But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
1 Cor. 2:9
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. John 14:3
For we know that if our earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.
2 Cor. 5:2
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Matt. 6:20, 21

He is coming soon and we will be with Him.

I don't think that heaven is a place. Jesus said, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Repentance brings us peace of mind. I think that is the heaven Jesus was talking about. Either way, repent.

 

[ChristinaL]

Most people claim we have to wait to "go to" heaven till we die. However, Jesus said, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Am I supposed to believe most people or am I supposed to believe Jesus?

Jesus was speaking of Himself

 

[Ritajanice]

2 Corinthians 7

King James Version

​

7 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
2 Receive us; we have wronged no man, we have corrupted no man, we have defrauded no man.
3 I speak not this to condemn you: for I have said before, that ye are in our hearts to die and live with you.
4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.
5 For, when we were come into Macedonia, our flesh had no rest, but we were troubled on every side; without were fightings, within were fears.
6 Nevertheless God, that comforteth those that are cast down, comforted us by the coming of Titus;
7 And not by his coming only, but by the consolation wherewith he was comforted in you, when he told us your earnest desire, your mourning, your fervent mind toward me; so that I rejoiced the more.
8 For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.
9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
12 Wherefore, though I wrote unto you, I did it not for his cause that had done the wrong, nor for his cause that suffered wrong, but that our care for you in the sight of God might appear unto you.
13 Therefore we were comforted in your comfort: yea, and exceedingly the more joyed we for the joy of Titus, because his spirit was refreshed by you all.
14 For if I have boasted any thing to him of you, I am not ashamed; but as we spake all things to you in truth, even so our boasting, which I made before Titus, is found a truth.
15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.
16 I rejoice therefore that I have confidence in you in all things.

 

[ChristinaL]

I don't think that heaven is a place. Jesus said, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Repentance brings us peace of mind. I think that is the heaven Jesus was talking about. Either way, repent.

No. Heaven is a place. But also Where Jesus was speaking of the Kingdom of heaven He was speaking of heaven embodied in Him

 

[Bob Estey]

Jesus was speaking of Himself

So you are saying that Jesus was heaven?

Genesis 1:1 states, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

I would say Jesus and heaven are two different things.

---

 

[Bob Estey]

No. Heaven is a place. But also Where Jesus was speaking of the Kingdom of heaven He was speaking of heaven embodied in Him

If heaven is a place, what good is it if we don't have peace of mind? I think Jesus was talking about peace of mind.

 

[ChristinaL]

If heaven is a place, what good is it if we don't have peace of mind? I think Jesus was talking about peace of mind.

We are supposed to have peace of mind but what I say is true. Heaven is a place. But also the Kingdom of God while a separate place was also embodied in Jesus Christ who is the fulness of the Godhead bodily. If there is no heaven as a separate place then we have no hope. There is no salvation if heaven as a place doesnt exist

 

[Bob Estey]

We are supposed to have peace of mind but what I say is true. Heaven is a place. But also the Kingdom of God while a separate place was also embodied in Jesus Christ who is the fulness of the Godhead bodily. If there is no heaven as a separate place then we have no hope. There is no salvation if heaven as a place doesnt exist

If heaven is a place, what good is it if we don't have peace of mind?

 

[Ritajanice]

Commentary.

Being partakers of His divine nature means that divine blood is within. You who are born again have had a blood transfusion; divine blood flows in your veins as well as human blood. It's wonderful when you know that you are a partaker of the divine blood that flowed in Jesus, that His divine blood is now a part of you


Hebrews 10:19
19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus,

 

[GodsGrace]

Just to clarify, it was Jesus, not Paul, who I was quoting.

Before I tell you where heaven is, I believe we need to understand WHAT heaven is.

Is heaven a beautiful place or is it peace of mind?

What good is a beautiful place if we don't have peace of mind?

I believe heaven is peace of mind, and I believe Jesus is telling us how to attain peace of mind here: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 4:17

Gosh Bob Estey,
I think most will know WHO said what you posted !

What I'm saying is that Jesus came to bring the Kindom of God here on earth.

He said to love God and love our neighbor as ourself.
He has about 3 chapters devoted to this idea in Matthew 5, 6 and 7.

If Jesus aim was not to teach regarding the salvation of our soul
and
how to make this a better world,,, then I don't know exactly what His teachings were.

Of course Jesus was teaching us how to have peace of mind...
one way is to forgive others.
Another way is to not worry.

Sure there's more.

 

[Ritajanice]

Psalm 29:11
King James Version
11 The Lord will give strength unto his people; the Lord will bless his people with peace.


Philippians 4:7
King James Version
7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

 

[St. SteVen]

Most people claim we have to wait to "go to" heaven till we die. However, Jesus said, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Am I supposed to believe most people or am I supposed to believe Jesus?

Wow, Bob... great topic. (something I know about) - LOL

It's a good question. But the answer probably isn't a simple binary (YES/NO) answer.
There's a lot more to it than that. IMHO (as we are seeing from some of the responses)

1) It is not heaven that is at hand, it is the KINGDOM of heaven. (two different things)
2) As believers, we are entitled to KINGDOM benefits while here.

When Jesus came, he brought the KINGDOM with him. Heaven met earth in Christ.
We could visualize it as a Venn diagram (two overlapping circles)
A = Heaven
B = Earth
A/B = The Kingdom of Heaven on earth



More to say about all this. Let's start here.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

If heaven is a beautiful place, then we'll probably have to wait till we die before we have it. If heaven is peace of mind, then all we have to do is repent, as Jesus instructed (Matthew 4:17), and we have it - now.

I agree in part.
There are more Kingdom benefits than peace of mind.
Although that's a BIGGIE, it's not all.

That's a whole topic in itself.

What are the benefits of the Kingdom of Heaven
in the here and now?

Ephesians 2:6 NIV
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

[

 

[St. SteVen]

If you'd rather have peace of mind, how do you attain it? Jesus told us in Matthew 4:17: Repent. Right?

That's one aspect. Peace of mind as a result of a renewed relationship.

Here's what came to my mind. Trust in God = peace of mind.

Philippians 4:6-7 NIV
Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation,
by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.
7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding,
will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Reading through all the posts.
It struck me that this is a silly thing to argue about.
Let's build one another up.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Is heaven a beautiful place or is it peace of mind?

What good is a beautiful place if we don't have peace of mind?

What's the flip side of that coin?

What good is "peace of mind" if we don't have "a beautiful place"?

Reader Poll - Would you be a Christian if there was no afterlife?

If there were no consequences or rewards in the afterlife, would there be any point to being a Christian? - Is there any value whatsoever to Christianity if there is no afterlife? - If there is an afterlife, how would God treat those who became Christians only out of fear of eternal...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I don't think that heaven is a place. Jesus said, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Repentance brings us peace of mind. I think that is the heaven Jesus was talking about. Either way, repent.

Wow, so you have nothing better to look forward to after death? What does eternal life mean to you and where is it going to be? So I suppose hades/Hell is at hand too ... here now? Heaven is a place of perfection, joy, peace, love, eternity, without sin and evil and death.
So you feel that it is just a state of mind and spirit that we just live in the mix of heaven and hell on earth and try to keep our chin up? If this is all we get, in Christ but in the world only, it is better, but not heaven. Heaven is what the hearts of men year for, perfection

Why don't you take trip to the towns devastated by Hurricane Helene and tell them "Heaven is here now, peace to you", and try to smile and feel joy as you look around at the carnage. They will think you are crazy. Maybe you should book a quick flight to Tampa , Florida and stay at a beach hotel tomorrow and experience
heaven at hand ... peace, joy, love, pure happiness within you - see how long that lasts. Actually, just stand there outside and Hurricane Milton will show you the quickest way to heaven.

 

[Bob Estey]

That's one aspect. Peace of mind as a result of a renewed relationship.

Here's what came to my mind. Trust in God = peace of mind.

Philippians 4:6-7 NIV
Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation,
by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.
7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding,
will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

[

Faith is a key element, but I believe it's a lot easier to have faith when we aren't sinning.

 

[Bob Estey]

What's the flip side of that coin?

What good is "peace of mind" if we don't have "a beautiful place"?

Reader Poll - Would you be a Christian if there was no afterlife?

If there were no consequences or rewards in the afterlife, would there be any point to being a Christian? - Is there any value whatsoever to Christianity if there is no afterlife? - If there is an afterlife, how would God treat those who became Christians only out of fear of eternal...

www.christianityboard.com

[

Peace of mind IS a beautiful place, I think.