We have to wait? Says who?

[Bob Estey]

Wow, so you have nothing better to look forward to after death? What does eternal life mean to you and where is it going to be? So I suppose hades/Hell is at hand too ... here now? Heaven is a place of perfection, joy, peace, love, eternity, without sin and evil and death.
So you feel that it is just a state of mind and spirit that we just live in the mix of heaven and hell on earth and try to keep our chin up? If this is all we get, in Christ but in the world only, it is better, but not heaven.
Why don't take trip to the towns devastated by Hurricane Helene and tell them "Heaven is here now, peace to you", and try to smile and feel joy as you look around. They will think you are crazy. Maybe you should book a quick flight to Tampa , Florida and stay at a beach hotel tomorrow and experience
heaven at hand ... peace, joy, love, pure happiness. Actually, just stand there outside and Hurricane Milton will show you the quickest way to heaven.

If I have peace of mind, I'll be a happy man. I suspect the place we go to after we die will be beautiful. More importantly, I look forward to seeing family and friends that have passed before me.

 

[St. SteVen]

Faith is a key element, but I believe it's a lot easier to have faith when we aren't sinning.

I agree.
Sin is like a god that we put between ourselves and God.
It obscures our view of Him.

So, we are starting to see several benefits of the Kingdom of Heaven emerge in this discussion.
- Peace of mind
- Trust in God
- Faith in God

I'm sure there are many more benefits that make for heaven on earth for us.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Peace of mind IS a beautiful place, I think.

Is heaven on earth (peace of mind) enough, or do you hope to go to the heaven of the afterlife too?

[

 

[Bob Estey]

I agree in part.
There are more Kingdom benefits than peace of mind.
Although that's a BIGGIE, it's not all.

That's a whole topic in itself.

What are the benefits of the Kingdom of Heaven
in the here and now?

Ephesians 2:6 NIV
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

[

The benefits would start with peace of mind, I believe, plus whatever else the Lord blesses you with - a good family, a good job, prosperity, entertainment - whatever you enjoy about life. The Lord gave us each the gift of life.

 

[Bob Estey]

Is heaven on earth (peace of mind) enough, or do you hope to go to the heaven of the afterlife too?

[

I believe in an afterlife.

 

[St. SteVen]

I believe in an afterlife.

Does it include heaven? Or is heaven only for right now?
Perhaps heaven is bigger than peace of mind?

Now a pie chart comes to mind.
Heaven is the whole pie. The pie is made up of many slices.
Peace of mind is one of those slices.

I like this 3D pie chart example below.
Imagine that some of the Kingdom benefits
reach all the way up to the heaven of the afterlife.
And some of the benefits are for our earthly time.
Like the benefit of being an ambassador for God,
with the ministry of reconciliation toward humankind.




[

 

[ChristinaL]

If heaven is a place, what good is it if we don't have peace of mind?

We have peace of mind knowing where we go when we die. But no heaven (as a place) means no afterlife, no hope of salvation.

Tell me.....Where did these people go if there is no heaven

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Rev 11: 12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

 

[Bob Estey]

We have peace of mind knowing where we go when we die. But no heaven (as a place) means no afterlife, no hope of salvation.

Tell me.....Where did these people go if there is no heaven

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Rev 11: 12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

I think it takes a clear conscience to have peace of mind.

 

[St. SteVen]

I think it takes a clear conscience to have peace of mind.

I think peace of mind can only be proved by a test of conflict.

Do we yield to a fleshly response to the conflict,
or to the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding?
(unreasonable peace in a storm of life)

[

 

[Bob Estey]

I think peace of mind can only be proved by a test of conflict.

Do we yield to a fleshly response to the conflict,
or to the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding?
(unreasonable peace in a storm of life)

[

If you are doing evil (selfish) things, I don't think you will have peace of mind.

 

[St. SteVen]

If you are doing evil (selfish) things, I don't think you will have peace of mind.

I agree.
I should have led with that on my last post reply.

On an on-going basis...
I think peace of mind can only be proved by a test of conflict.

Do we yield to a fleshly response to the conflict,
or to the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding?
(unreasonable peace in a storm of life)

Does that seem reasonable?
It's easy to have peace of mind when things are going well.

[

 

[Taken]

Most people claim we have to wait to "go to" heaven till we die. However, Jesus said, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Am I supposed to believe most people or am I supposed to believe Jesus?

I’m going to say the “unpopular thingy”, which some use as a derogatory implication….”cherry picking”.

Not every passage in Scripture applies all people. That which does apply is according to what the individual believes AND does…OR does Not believe AND does Not do…

People alive on the face of the earth…are a wide range of ages, and healthiness…
And considering….regardless of age and health…at any moment a perfectly healthy person could be killed / murdered at any time…

So IS the kingdom of heaven “at hand”? Yes…it’s been there since before manKind existed..
And shall all souls and sprits go to heaven?
No…because of their choices and lack of finding to be prepared too interfering with their mortal life…

Just saying….it’s really a warning about individual preparedness…


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Bob Estey]

I’m going to say the “unpopular thingy”, which some use as a derogatory implication….”cherry picking”.

Not every passage in Scripture applies all people. That which does apply is according to what the individual believes AND does…OR does Not believe AND does Not do…

People alive on the face of the earth…are a wide range of ages, and healthiness…
And considering….regardless of age and health…at any moment a perfectly healthy person could be killed / murdered at any time…

So IS the kingdom of heaven “at hand”? Yes…it’s been there since before manKind existed..
And shall all souls and sprits go to heaven?
No…because of their choices and lack of finding to be prepared too interfering with their mortal life…

Just saying….it’s really a warning about individual preparedness…


Glory to God,
Taken

I don't think it's cherry picking. The Lord is commanding us to repent. That sounds like some work.

 

[Raccoon1010]

If heaven is a beautiful place, then we'll probably have to wait till we die before we have it. If heaven is peace of mind, then all we have to do is repent, as Jesus instructed (Matthew 4:17), and we have it - now.

@Bob Estey perhaps you should let God define heaven and not attempt to define it as "Peace of Mind" which is actually something that concept shares with eastern religion from the bhuddist areas. Prayer and meditation from what I understand are ways that they attempt to achieve peace.

Christians understand that "peace" is not something that comes from man or his conscious but rather God and his powers of calming the storm. Christians will undoubtedly find themselves in turmoil when presenting the gospel and messages of God to the ill and wicked. I think people who read the bible can see the language used by Jesus and the Apostles that shows something that is not "peace of mind" but sometimes anger. Jesus did calm the tempest for his apostles in actual stormy weather while on a boat. And that was a miracle of deliverance for the apostles so that they could feel safe from danger and death and go on to testify of God.

God has power to bring his children into heaven with him. @Bob Estey you do not have that power. So I wonder what your intentions are in telling people they are in heaven?

I remember the discussions we had about guilt and how you thought that was hell. But I also cautioned you that guilt can be fabricated and inflicted on people in unjust ways so that they feel guity about doing good for God. One of Satan's many deceptions.

Now about people also playing the Judge and Savior of God and telling them they are saved. I still wonder what their motivations are. I do see a lot of people making a lot of money off of Christianity in the countries that sell those things. I'm not sure God would be pleased. But I do know that God considers them "God's children". So I am going to direct them from the acts that are not becoming children. Which are in fact God's power and authority.

 

[Bob Estey]

@Bob Estey perhaps you should let God define heaven and not attempt to define it as "Peace of Mind" which is actually something that concept shares with eastern religion from the bhuddist areas. Prayer and meditation from what I understand are ways that they attempt to achieve peace.

Christians understand that "peace" is not something that comes from man or his conscious but rather God and his powers of calming the storm. Christians will undoubtedly find themselves in turmoil when presenting the gospel and messages of God to the ill and wicked. I think people who read the bible can see the language used by Jesus and the Apostles that shows something that is not "peace of mind" but sometimes anger. Jesus did calm the tempest for his apostles in actual stormy weather while on a boat. And that was a miracle of deliverance for the apostles so that they could feel safe from danger and death and go on to testify of God.

God has power to bring his children into heaven with him. @Bob Estey you do not have that power. So I wonder what your intentions are in telling people they are in heaven?

I remember the discussions we had about guilt and how you thought that was hell. But I also cautioned you that guilt can be fabricated and inflicted on people in unjust ways so that they feel guity about doing good for God. One of Satan's many deceptions.

Now about people also playing the Judge and Savior of God and telling them they are saved. I still wonder what their motivations are. I do see a lot of people making a lot of money off of Christianity in the countries that sell those things. I'm not sure God would be pleased. But I do know that God considers them "God's children". So I am going to direct them from the acts that are not becoming children. Which are in fact God's power and authority.

Better yet, maybe I should just repent.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Better yet, maybe I should just repent.

@Bob Estey I don't know where you get your ideas. They are pleasant sounding really. From what I have experienced in life things are very different though. If only life was as simple as you like, then perhaps it would be easier to deal with death, hell and the problems people are facing in life. They also seem to say, "dealing with life", "life is difficult" and so on. Honestly life is not responsible for turmoil, pain, suffering and all the other problems from that evil stuff. Evil is the cause of suffering, deception and death, hell. And evil and death, deception is the master of the devil and his angels. They seem to be hell bent on directing people to troubles fear and other problems, and while they are distracted sometimes people forget to be part of the Lord's good works. Like proclaiming the saving ordinances of God.

From what I've experienced, "life" from God is pleasant and enjoyable. And as that is enjoyable, I often enjoy directing people to the happy and pleasant things in life. Like barbecues, friends, family and other pleasant things, like nature and good Christian church groups.

From what I enjoy talking about:

Baptized confessing our sins, Prayed over to receive the Holy Spirit by Priests of God, Received the Bread and Wine of the New Covenant of Jesus the Christ

Baptism, Confirmation for the Hole Ghost & Sacrament
Honoring God
Obeying the Commandments
Praying
Reading Scriptures
Attending a Church
Serving Others in Charity
Proclaiming the Gospel
Etc...

 

[Raccoon1010]

I really enjoy serving the Lord and he has wonderful fruits to enjoy when serving him and his children:

5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

[Bob Estey]

@Bob Estey I don't know where you get your ideas. They are pleasant sounding really. From what I have experienced in life things are very different though. If only life was as simple as you like, then perhaps it would be easier to deal with death, hell and the problems people are facing in life. They also seem to say, "dealing with life", "life is difficult" and so on. Honestly life is not responsible for turmoil, pain, suffering and all the other problems from that evil stuff. Evil is the cause of suffering, deception and death, hell. And evil and death, deception is the master of the devil and his angels. They seem to be hell bent on directing people to troubles fear and other problems, and while they are distracted sometimes people forget to be part of the Lord's good works. Like proclaiming the saving ordinances of God.

From what I've experienced, "life" from God is pleasant and enjoyable. And as that is enjoyable, I often enjoy directing people to the happy and pleasant things in life. Like barbecues, friends, family and other pleasant things, like nature and good Christian church groups.

From what I enjoy talking about:

Baptized confessing our sins, Prayed over to receive the Holy Spirit by Priests of God, Received the Bread and Wine of the New Covenant of Jesus the Christ

Baptism, Confirmation for the Hole Ghost & Sacrament
Honoring God
Obeying the Commandments
Praying
Reading Scriptures
Attending a Church
Serving Others in Charity
Proclaiming the Gospel
Etc...

Where do I get my ideas? It was Jesus who told us to repent.