We really CAN'T answer some of these

[bbyrd009]

I should start baking my own bread...do you have a recipe you could share Mark?

Ah that is mostly the ladies area, but we got our Amish bread starter from some anabaptist lady, and I happen to know the ladies here just use the recipes online for that, they are kinda fishing too iow? We haven't made that in months now I guess, kinda drab to me anyway.

You are English, right? England English? Your breads blow ours away for taste imo

 

[bbyrd009]

Oh gosh, the last thing this gal needs is more energy she can't expend properly!!! Lol...yes, I am slow at nothing and, it gets me into trouble allot
Do they have omega 3's in a liquid form? Or, do they all use fish oil?

I guess there are veg sources of liquid, from like kelp or seaweed mostly? But expensive imo, never tried them. The speed effect ameliorates as ones tolerance rises though, that goes away

 

[Nancy]

Ah that is mostly the ladies area, but we got our Amish bread starter from some anabaptist lady, and I happen to know the ladies here just use the recipes online for that, they are kinda fishing too iow? We haven't made that in months now I guess, kinda drab to me anyway.

You are English, right? England English? Your breads blow ours away for taste imo

Ha, no, I am not English...Italian and Irish. I also hear their bacon puts ours to shame, lol!

 

[Kermos]

No, Soteriology is about God's grace, NOT His power.

Soteriology is the study of the doctrine of salvation. Soteriology discusses how Christ's death secures the salvation of those who believe. It helps us to understand the doctrines of redemption, justification, sanctification, propitiation, and the substitutionary atonement.
What is Soteriology?

No wonder you are so confused about God's plan of salvation. It is all about grace, hence the Gospel of Grace.

Soteriology is the study of salvation. A person being saved manifests the power of God (John 3:21, Romans 1:16). It appears you have a problem with this. By the way I did not say "exclusively addresses".

 

[Kermos]

Hi Kermos,

I'd reply that I don't have a problem with these Scriptures, and that God knowing in advance what people would do, and using that information to bring about what He wants to do, is a different thing than causing people to sin.

However, you do seem to have a difficulty answering my questions. Call them leading if you will . . . characterize them however you will, just the same, I notice they remain unanswered.

But I'm used to that sort of thing. As another poster put it, I "ask hard questions".

Much love!
Mark

Hi Mark,

It appears to me you find this scripture hard, Acts 4:27-28, because in your incomplete restatement you attempted to remove God's Hand with respect to Pontius Pilate and the scourging of Jesus and sending off Jesus to crucifixion (your posts #287 and #356):

For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.
(Acts 4:27-28)

God's knowledge of events before the events occur significantly relates to control by the God of order (1 Corinthians 14:33):

I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever; For His dominion is an everlasting dominion, And His kingdom [endures] from generation to generation. All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, But He does according to His will in the host of heaven And [among] the inhabitants of earth; And no one can ward off His hand or say to Him, 'What have You done?'
(Daniel 4:34-35)

1 For the choir director. A Psalm of David. O YHWH, You have searched me and known [me].
2 You know when I sit down and when I rise up; You understand my thought from afar.
3 You scrutinize my path and my lying down, And are intimately acquainted with all my ways.
4 Even before there is a word on my tongue, Behold, O YHWH, You know it all.
5 You have enclosed me behind and before, And laid Your hand upon me.
6 [Such] knowledge is too wonderful for me; It is [too] high, I cannot attain to it.
(Psalm 139:1-6)

19 YHWH by wisdom founded the earth, By understanding He established the heavens.
20 By His knowledge the deeps were broken up And the skies drip with dew.
(Proverbs 3:19)

The fear of the YHWH is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
(Proverbs 9:10)

The eyes of YHWH preserve knowledge, But He overthrows the words of the treacherous man.
(Proverbs 22:12)

3 By wisdom a house is built, And by understanding it is established;
4 And by knowledge the rooms are filled With all precious and pleasant riches.
(Proverbs 24:3-4)

Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God
(1 Corinthians 1:24)

All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
(John 1:3)

when the wise is instructed, he receives knowledge.
(Proverbs 21:11)

For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
(John 12:49)

this [Man], delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put [Him] to death.
(Acts 2:23)

The knowledge and related control by God (Hand of God) for God's purpose brings to mind "The Account of Judas' Betrayal of Jesus Post (in this thread)", we find the ancient words of Zechariah prophesying about Judas' betrayal of Jesus (Zechariah 11:12-13), and we find that Jesus knew that Judas would betray Jesus from the beginning (John 6:46), and we find Lord Jesus directing "What you do, do quickly" to Judas (John 13:27) - that is not random - not Thomas not Nathaniel - nor chaotic, no, it is precise and known by God in advance and described in advance with fulfillment. It is written "no purpose of Yours can be thwarted" (Job 42:2) referring to God's purpose, and God knew before that Judas would betray Jesus.

Nonetheless, with God's ends achieved by some means does not translate to God bears sin, no, rather man bears sin:

The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.
(Ezekiel 18:20)

We must not forget that Lord Jesus said to the disciples:

"you did not choose Me, but I chose you"
(John 15:16)

There is a deeper dynamic involved with your question than a mere surface reading. In referring to Acts 4:27-28, your question "So then these men would not have committed these sins but for the hand of God moving them to sin in such a way, do I understand correctly?" (your post #308) with your associated answer of "no" (your post #313) has these qualities as I see it:

- Apparent statement (overt statement): God does not cause man to sin.

- Presupposition statements (subliminal statements): (1) man is in control, (2) man is capable of thwarting God's purpose, (3) man can ward off God's Hand.

All of the scripture recounted above proves very damaging to the disorderly, man control gospel in which man chooses Jesus or man's freewill dictates events or man chooses to believe in Jesus. The man control gospel is in error based on Scripture both soteriologically and theologically. I do not find your question hard, rather I find your question an attempted leading away from scripture. You failed to supply scriptural citation for your question.

I find it very telling. Your question is heavy-laden with presupposition, yet lacking scripture citation; on the other hand, the question I posed to you "Do you believe rhat God's Hand did not engage Pontius Pilate?" was posed nearly adjacent to Acts 4:23-31 - the very passage of scripture to which the question refers, and your response was "About Pontius Pilate, I don't understand your question, did God's Hand 'engage' Pontius Pilate? What does that mean, 'Engage Pontius Pilate'?" (your post #348). According to your theology, man can choose Jesus; on the other hand, I say that Lord Jesus says to the followers of Jesus the Way that man does not choose Jesus (John 15:16). The Word of God reveals God's Holiness and God's Hand in man and God's Hand in events and God's provision and so much more, so departing from or ignoring the Word of God leads to ruin.

Lord Jesus said:

I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die.
(John 11:25-26)

Peace to you,
Kermos

 

[marks]

Hi @Kermos,

I think we're just going over and over the same material.

The passage on Pilate is a great example.

For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.
(Acts 4:27-28)

God's hand and purpose predestined that Jesus would be murdered. God sent Jesus to Caiphas and Annas and Pilate and Herod knowing Jesus would be murdered.

God knew well in advance what these men, and the rest of them would do. God knew that they were evil men who would murder His Son. And God wanted a sacrifice to show His love by satisfying justice.

They were evil men, concoting their own evil plans. And God knew those plans, and used them. But they were the ones who envied Jesus, and so they were the ones who murdered Jesus. And God did not make them envy Jesus, and God did not make them murder Jesus.

And so Jesus came to His own, and His own received Him not, but as many as did receive him, believing in His Name, to them He gave the right to become children of God. Not born of their own will . . . but born of God.

It was God's choice, His sovereign will, which no man can overthrow, that those who believe His word will become His children, born of Him. His choice, not mine.

I don't see any of these passages give credit to God for man's sin.

I think we're going to disagree over each of these passages in the same way.

Either God gives choice to man, or retains choice to Himself.

If God gives choice to man, we are active participants in this life, and bear the responsibility for our choices.

If God retains all choice to Himself, are no different than characters in a movie that is watched, and we are no different than the audience, we see it all played out, good, bad, ugly, depraved, utterly sinful, but it's all God's story, and He is One Whe determines all these things to be. And they are His doing, and His responsibility, but what does it matter, after all, He's God, right?

But that's not the God I see revealed in Scripture.

Much love!
Mark

 

[Kermos]

Hi @Kermos,

...snip...

Much love!
Mark

Hi Mark,

27 For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,
28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.
(Acts 4:27-28)

Narrowing the focus a bit:

"Pontius Pilate" "to do whatever Your hand" "predestined to occur"

"to do"

In your post, you repeated your "hornet's nest" analogy concept (your post #287), but this time you mentioned "God's hand"; subsequently, you attempted to present a "hands-off" explanation for Pontius Pilate as your posting proceeded. That "hands-off" flys in the face of the scripture that states "to do" as in "Pontius Pilate" (part of subject from Acts 4:27) "to do whatever Your hand" (predicate from Acts 4:28) "predestined to occur" (more of predicate from Acts 4:28).

Expanding the focus:

The same verses indicate the achievement of God's purpose for the Son of God's lovingly atoning sacrifice for God's Holy Nation!

When you wrote the sentence "God sent Jesus to Caiphas and Annas and Pilate and Herod knowing Jesus would be murdered", your predicate replacement of "knowing Jesus would be murdered" does not match the scripture predicate of "to do whatever Your hand" "predestined to occur"; moreover, it seems to me that your sentence more closely aligns with God's purpose as mentioned in Acts 4:27-28 "Pontius Pilate" "to do whatever" "Your purpose" "predestined to occur". Because you have switched words, I think it best to return to the original passage of Acts 4:27-28.

In your post's first paragraph, second paragraph, and third paragraph, you used the verb "knew" instead of "predestined to occur", and that makes for a stunning contrast between your version and the Biblical version, Mark. We are corresponding about Acts 4:27-28, and the phrase "predestined to occur" is in Acts 4:27-28.

Rather than using your movie anaolgy, I use the Apostle Paul's writings:

19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"
20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?
21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?
23 And [He did so] to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory
(Romans 9:19-23)

Mark, I did not find any scripture quoted in your post except and unless the Acts 4:27-28 is counted which was quoted from the post that I made. You made many assertions, but you did not cite the Bible.

Last in this post, but not least, concerning the Sovereignty of God, Lord Jesus says to we followers of Him:

you did not choose me, but I chose you
(John 15:16)

Continuing with the area of belief/faith, that the work of God is that a person believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent:

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
(John 6:29)

Belief, salvation, choice, born again: these are all governed by the Sovereignty of God, and man has no input in them. Praise to the Giver of Life!

Peace to you,
Kermos

 

[marks]

@Kermos,

God wanted it to happen, and at the time He knew it would happen He did what He did so it would. But what He did does not include causing men to sin.

Your arguments as I've read them over and over all come to the same thing. Predistination of purpose concerning mankind equals predestination of individual men to sin, and I don't agree with that.

I don't see it in the text. In your lengthy arguments, I still don't see it.

Truth in Scripture, I believe, if truly understood can be simply presented.

In this instance, God does not tempt men to sin. Anyone who sins, sins on their own. Their own lusts seduce them into sin. That's from James, and it's clear as can be. And I see nothing that contradicts that. And how could anything contradict that?

So I think we are at an impasse.

God, in His absolutely sovereign decretive will has declared, and it cannot be overturned by man: Man must choose. Life or death.

Much love!
Mark

 

[Kermos]

@Kermos,

God wanted it to happen, and at the time He knew it would happen He did what He did so it would. But what He did does not include causing men to sin.

Your arguments as I've read them over and over all come to the same thing. Predistination of purpose concerning mankind equals predestination of individual men to sin, and I don't agree with that.

I don't see it in the text. In your lengthy arguments, I still don't see it.

Truth in Scripture, I believe, if truly understood can be simply presented.

In this instance, God does not tempt men to sin. Anyone who sins, sins on their own. Their own lusts seduce them into sin. That's from James, and it's clear as can be. And I see nothing that contradicts that. And how could anything contradict that?

So I think we at impasse.

God, in His absolutely sovereign decretive will has declared, and it cannot be overturned by man: Man must choose. Life or death.

Much love!
Mark



Much love!
Mark

Hi Mark,

When you wrote "predistination of purpose" in the second paragraph of your post, you attempted to eliminate God's Hand from Acts 4:27-28 again, and here in lies the root of the impasse that you mention - you attempt to illegitimately change the meaning of the prayer of Peter, John, and the companions recorded in Acts 4:27-28, and you attempt to use the Book of James to do such. This post addresses these matters.

You wrote "Truth in Scripture, I believe, if truly understood can be simply presented", and here simply presented in the recorded prayer of Peter, John, and the companions we find not just God's purpose to which you repeatedly try to limit the prayer, but we find the intimate representation of God's Hand engaging Pontius Pilate. To deny this is to deny Apostolic teaching for both Peter and John are recorded as praying this part of the prayer:

27 For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,
28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.
(Acts 4:27-28)

Narrowing the focus a bit:

"Pontius Pilate" "to do whatever Your hand" "predestined to occur"

"to do"

Expanding the focus:

The same verses indicate the achievement of God's purpose for the Son of God's lovingly atoning sacrifice for God's Holy Nation!

The prayer recorded in Acts 4:27-28 does not say that God tempted Pontius Pilate; therefore, James 1:13 is in accord with Acts 4:27-28.

God's Hand engaged Pontius Pilate "to do whatever" God's Hand "predestined to occur" as the prayer of Peter, John, and the Way companions is written in Acts 4:27-28.

You wrote the sentence "Predistination of purpose concerning mankind equals predestination of individual men to sin". The prayer of Peter, John, and the Way companions recorded in Acts 4:27-28 does not state such, so neither have I stated such. You seem to be continually interpreting the Acts 4:27-28 (which I quote) as well as the posts I've written through your own presupposition of men being able to choose Jesus despite the words of Jesus "you did not choose me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), so you try to redefine the simply presented prayer of Peter, John, and the companions recorded in Acts 4:27-28 to fit your presupposition.

Jesus is the Life (John 14:6), so men cannot choose Life per Jesus (John 15:16). The last sentence of your post is an egregious error because it contradicts the Word of God!

Peace to you,
Kermos

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

God's Eternal Purpose is God's Eternal Election of sinners from their deserved eternal destiny for their undeserved eternal salvation.

 

[tzcho2]

Hitler claimed to be following Jesus too I guess huh

I don't think that's exactly accurate. Historians say he found Christianity repugnant. Early on he only claimed to be Christian to win the Christian votes, but hitler was described by confidants as an anti-christian atheist & socialist.

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't think that's exactly accurate. Historians say he found Christianity repugnant. Early on he only claimed to be Christian to win the Christian votes, but hitler was described by confidants as an anti-christian atheist & socialist.

that was the point after all tz, yes. Would prolly be interesting to examine the German congregations then and get a read on their um zeitgeist, their...ha well that's foreign too lol. I guess our current concept of Hell maybe even came from German...I'll tag @amadeus in case he knows something there

 

[Kermos]

snip...Kermos,

God wanted it to happen, and at the time He knew it would happen He did what He did so it would. But what He did does not include causing men to sin.

Your arguments as I've read them over and over all come to the same thing. Predistination of purpose concerning mankind equals predestination of individual men to sin, and I don't agree with that.

I don't see it in the text. In your lengthy arguments, I still don't see it.

Truth in Scripture, I believe, if truly understood can be simply presented.

In this instance, God does not tempt men to sin. Anyone who sins, sins on their own. Their own lusts seduce them into sin. That's from James, and it's clear as can be. And I see nothing that contradicts that. And how could anything contradict that?

So I think we are at an impasse.

God, in His absolutely sovereign decretive will has declared, and it cannot be overturned by man: Man must choose. Life or death.

Much love!
Mark

Hi @marks

I was reading "When was the last time you heard the word "RAPTURE" in your church?? Thread (on christianityboard.com)", and I noticed that your church - Calvary - discussed the rapture frequently of late. And, I am aware that Calvary is quite vocal about being a biblically expository church.

This must mean that you are aware of II Thessalonians, and how the Apostle Paul addresses the rapture in this letter just like the first. Here is a quote from II Thessalonians:

For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12)

The Apostle Paul wrote a VERY strong statement regarding God's actions. Luke recorded a VERY powerful statement of a unison prayer by the Apostle Peter and the Apostle John and the comanions in Acts:

For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur. (Acts 4:27-28)

You say man nust choose life or death (your post number 547832 on this site).

God is in control, and God does the choosing unto salvation and Life eternal. God says such. The sent ones say such. God says:

"you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16)

"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life" (John 14:6)

"With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (Matthew 19:26)

The last quote of Jesus is where He was repling to the question "Then who can be saved?"

The Truth is that believers receive Jesus the Lord, and this "receive" is "to be siezed by" (lambano) which is in contrast to "accept" which carries choice. The believers receipt is a wonderfully blessed act of God for the glory of God. God says:

"I will not give My glory to another" (Isaiah 42:8)

If a person claims to choose or accept the Christ - which contradicts Jesus' very words - then such a person has an idol in the self-same person's false ability, and this leads to the conclusion of the above quote:

"Nor My praise to graven images" (Isaiah 42:8)

The Sovereignty of God in part can be described as salvation occuring by God's grace for God's glory with the dead, poor, unworthy, wretched person that God chooses/elects being blessed by the Lord Jesus Christ to a loving Life eternal with God in the power of God which the person can not resist nor desires to resist because the Spirit of the Living God brings about birth, belief, and actions of the person resulting in the scriptural and spiritual fact that solely by the power of God the desires/will of the person are brought into accord and unity with God's will.

Please revisit:

"Explanation of 'Predestine' Post (in this thread)" "Explanation of 'Predestine' Post - Continued (in this thread)"

"God's Choosing of All Types of People in 1 Timothy 2:1-6 Post (in this thread)"

"The Word of God, Jesus Christ, Declares Presdestination True Post (in this thread)"

"Lord Jesus said people do not choose Him, and the Fallacy of Attempting to Ascribe Free Will to Jesus Saying 'Jerusalem, Jerusalem' Post (in this thread)"

"The Start of My and Your Correspondence Post (in this thread)"

"Lord Jesus' Audience at the Time He Said 'You Did Not Choose Me, But I Chose You' (John 15:16) Post (in this thread)"

"God's Patience For God's Elect As Recorded In 2 Peter 3:9 Post (in this thread)" "God's Patience For God's Elect As Recorded In 2 Peter 3:9 Post - Continued (in this thread)"

"Parable of the 10 Virgins And Inability to Choose Jesus Explained Post (part 1 in this thread)" and "Parable of the 10 Virgins And Inability to Choose Jesus Explained Post (part 2 in this thread)" and "Parable of the 10 Virgins And Inability to Choose Jesus Explained Post (part 3 in this thread)"

"Gospel of Christ - Mercy and Compassion - An Expression of God's Loving Power Post (in this thread)"

"The Account of Judas' Betrayal of Jesus Post (in this thread)"

Peace to you,
Kermos

 

[Wafer]

That's kind of what I mean.... Most of the answers any of us would give WOULD be the quick, pat, responses we have been trained to give (from either side) And the rest of the answers would be nonsensical nothings, designed to dazzle with BS.

That's because most of the questions are "nonsensical nothings, designed to dazzle with BS." The best answer to most of those questions is a snort.

Romans 14:1 King James Version (KJV)
14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

 

[Willie T]

That's because most of the questions are "nonsensical nothings, designed to dazzle with BS." The best answer to most of those questions is a snort.

Romans 14:1 King James Version (KJV)
14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

It's really OK to admit you can't answer many of them. Most of us already know you can't, anyway.

 

[Wafer]

It's really OK to admit you can't answer many of them. Most of us already know you can't, anyway.

I didn't say I can't answer them, I said they are not worth answers.

 

[Kermos]

You see, the author is trying to address the insane idea that many "Christians" hold to that "The Law" is only binding if it is repeated again in the New Testament.

Hello Willie T,

The Law, which is the old covenant, is no longer binding, for the Lord Jesus said:

"This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood." (Luke 22:20)

And it is written in the Book of Hebrews:

When He said, "A new [covenant]," He has made the first obsolete. (Hebrews 8:13)

Thus God in Christ Jesus made way for Grace over the Law - mercy over sacrifice - compassion over judgement.

Grace is not license for beastiality, for the same Holy Spirit at work with the Law is the same Holy Spirit at work for sanctification in we believers; therefore, by the Power of God we believers abhor beastiality.

We believers are free, not bound. We believers are massively, eternally, deeply, humbly grateful for the Redeemer's act of love, and by God's grace we desire righteousness in, through, and by Christ Jesus. In the Spirit of God, we believers love what God loves, and we believers hate what God hates.

Saved by the blood of Jesus,
Kermos

 

[Willie T]

I didn't say I can't answer them, I said they are not worth answers.

You can play that childish game. (I guess you have to since you have no answers.) But, the title of that powerful little book is: "75 Questions Your Instructors Pray You will Never Ask." Those 'instructors' are professors of religion. They are being supported by the money the students paid for tuition. They SHOULD be able to give reasonable and acceptable answers to every single one.

But, they honestly can't. So they want to hide behind the same pretense you use... that those straightforward and simple questions aren't worth their exalted time to answer.

Sad thing is that we are told, in the Bible, to be ready (and able) to give answers when others ask. Not to run and dodge.

 

[Harvest 1874]

You can play that childish game. (I guess you have to since you have no answers.) But, the title of that powerful little book is: "75 Questions Your Instructors Pray You will Never Ask." Those 'instructors' are professors of religion. They are being supported by the money the students paid for tuition. They SHOULD be able to give reasonable and acceptable answers to every single one.

But, they honestly can't. So they want to hide behind the same pretense you use... that those straightforward and simple questions aren't worth their exalted time to answer.

Sad thing is that we are told, in the Bible, to be ready (and able) to give answers when others ask. Not to run and dodge.

This reminds me of the time long ago before I became a Bible Student, when I was still a Baptist, I remember taking a list of ten questions (I believe they were with regards to Revelation) to my Pastor for answers and he gave me the same old song and dance, viz.

'I'll tell you what you take those questions and look in your bible and see if you can find the answers and then get back with me and we'll look them over together'.

What!, The whole reason I had come to him in the first place was that I had already looked and hadn't found the answers. Wasn't he the one who supposedly attended seminary school for 3-4 years (some even more), one would think that in order graduate seminary and to be appointed the Pastor of a church you would have to have a reasonable understanding of the Scriptures, not necessarily an understanding of every detail, but you should at least know the general area in which to point someone to find what they're looking for.

Now I didn't expect he would have the answers to my questions right there and then, I was willing to wait until he had time to look them up for himself, but I got the inclination he had no clue and if he did it was probably nothing he wanted to commit himself to.

That's when I realized I was wasting my time in this particular church. Most of these ministers (the blind guides of Christendom as the Lord refers to them) have very little true understanding of the scriptures, yes they can quote scriptures, but quoting scripture and understanding scripture are two different things.

The natural man can quote scripture (some even better than true Christians), but it takes one truly begotten of the Lord's spirit too actually understand and to be able to interpret scripture.

The only thing these nominal ministers are good at is picking the right anecdote for their Sunday sermon, then throw in a few scriptural texts regardless of whether or not they actually apply and WA-la you have your sermon for the week. Nor need they worry that their flock might see through this charade, they're just as blind as the minister himself, they'll never know the difference, they just want to be entertained and get a good "feeling" on Sunday, it makes them feel more Christian, even if it is just for one day.

 

[Wafer]

You can play that childish game. (I guess you have to since you have no answers.) But, the title of that powerful little book is: "75 Questions Your Instructors Pray You will Never Ask." Those 'instructors' are professors of religion. They are being supported by the money the students paid for tuition. They SHOULD be able to give reasonable and acceptable answers to every single one.

But, they honestly can't. So they want to hide behind the same pretense you use... that those straightforward and simple questions aren't worth their exalted time to answer.

Sad thing is that we are told, in the Bible, to be ready (and able) to give answers when others ask. Not to run and dodge.

Romans 14:1 King James Version (KJV)
14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 Peter 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.