Were the 10 Commandments Written to us? Exodus 20 / Leviticus 26

[Ronald Nolette]

Paul obeyed all the 10 Commandments. Many verses proving this have already been posted in this thread. Happy to re-post if it would make any difference to you. It's ok though, I won't bother with it knowing that it won't. Any proof to go with your claims that the 600+ Laws were written in stone by God? Any verses at all, Ron?

but not to save Him, add to His salvation, make Him righteous etc.etc.etc.

Remember whar Paul said in Phil 2. that as touching the law He was blameless and He counted that blamelessness as dung for the knowledge of Jesus!

I never even implied that the other 603 were written in stone. Did god say any of th eother 603 were a ministry of death as Paul said in Corinthians? Why do you ignore that and try to put a rope around peoples neck? We are saved by faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus-alone. we are righteous because of Jesus alone! we can obey god because of Jesus-alone!

If you demand that we walk as Jesus did- do you keep the festivals like tabernacles, trumpets, Day of atonement? do you keep the Sabvbath and do NO work on the Sabbath? do you make others defile th eSabbath by making them work for you like coking meals or cleaning up or serving you at a restaurant or store? Jesus would not have done that. Or have you found some fancy way to reinterpret th eScriptures to justify defiling

the Sabbath just like the Pharisees of old did.

The irony of all this debate is that those who are so emotional about the NOT obeying of the 10 Commandments are only in disagreement with the 4th Commandment.

That's it.

That's their only point of contention. They fully agree with, and obey, the other 9 Commandments, if they're even half a Christian, but it's the 4th that is such a threat to their lifestyle and their belief system.

No I obey the other nine because they are command given in the NT for the church, not because they are ones written in stone to Israel that minister death and not life!

"And that day was the preparation (day before Sabbath), and the Sabbath drew on (approached). And the women ... beheld the sepulchre, and how His body was laid. And they ... prepared spices and ointments; and rested the Sabbath Day according to the Commandment."
Luke 23:54-56

What Commandment? The Commandments were GONE, Right???

Wasn't that Commandment nailed to the Cross with all the rest?

So what's the Biblical explanation for that?

Are you really that unread in Scripture that you do not know? ASs Gods Word says the sabbath was given for Israel as a sign between god and Israel! Why didn't the council at Jerusalem add the Sabbath to keep to the churches seeing as Paul went over circumcision and other points of OT Law.

"Throughout Paul's ministry, he addressed each and every Commandment and made clear that we all should obey them. Clearly, he believed that they were given to all mankind.

Nobody can sin if the 10 Commandments were not given to the entire world 'til the end of time. For sin is the breaking of the Law, the breaking of any of the 10 Commandments.

This is you making your own reasonings and make them Scripture. A classic straw man.

 

[MatthewG]

Leviticus 19:1–18
The Lord Is Holy

Leviticus 19
New Living Translation

Holiness in Personal Conduct
19 The Lord also said to Moses, 2 “Give the following instructions to the entire community of Israel. You must be holy because I, the Lord your God, am holy.

3 “Each of you must show great respect for your mother and father, and you must always observe my Sabbath days of rest. I am the Lord your God.

4 “Do not put your trust in idols or make metal images of gods for yourselves. I am the Lord your God.

5 “When you sacrifice a peace offering to the Lord, offer it properly so you will be accepted by God. 6 The sacrifice must be eaten on the same day you offer it or on the next day. Whatever is left over until the third day must be completely burned up. 7 If any of the sacrifice is eaten on the third day, it will be contaminated, and I will not accept it. 8 Anyone who eats it on the third day will be punished for defiling what is holy to the Lord and will be cut off from the community.

9 “When you harvest the crops of your land, do not harvest the grain along the edges of your fields, and do not pick up what the harvesters drop. 10 It is the same with your grape crop—do not strip every last bunch of grapes from the vines, and do not pick up the grapes that fall to the ground. Leave them for the poor and the foreigners living among you. I am the Lord your God.

11 “Do not steal.

“Do not deceive or cheat one another.

12 “Do not bring shame on the name of your God by using it to swear falsely. I am the Lord.

13 “Do not defraud or rob your neighbor.

“Do not make your hired workers wait until the next day to receive their pay.

14 “Do not insult the deaf or cause the blind to stumble. You must fear your God; I am the Lord.

15 “Do not twist justice in legal matters by favoring the poor or being partial to the rich and powerful. Always judge people fairly.

16 “Do not spread slanderous gossip among your people.

“Do not stand idly by when your neighbor’s life is threatened. I am the Lord.

17 “Do not nurse hatred in your heart for any of your relatives. Confront people directly so you will not be held guilty for their sin.

18 “Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against a fellow Israelite, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.

 

[GEN2REV]

No I obey the other nine because they are command given in the NT for the church, not because they are ones written in stone to Israel that minister death and not life!

So now you obey NINE of the 10 Commandments, but not the 4th. See, now we're getting to the meat of the matter. I thought the Commandments were nailed to the Cross, Ron.

GEN2REV said:
"And that day was the preparation (day before Sabbath), and the Sabbath drew on (approached). And the women ... beheld the sepulchre, and how His body was laid. And they ... prepared spices and ointments; and rested the Sabbath Day according to the Commandment."
Luke 23:54-56

What Commandment? The Commandments were GONE, Right???

Wasn't that Commandment nailed to the Cross with all the rest?

So what's the Biblical explanation for that?

Are you really that unread in Scripture that you do not know? ASs Gods Word says the sabbath was given for Israel as a sign between god and Israel! Why didn't the council at Jerusalem add the Sabbath to keep to the churches seeing as Paul went over circumcision and other points of OT Law.

You claim the Commandments were gone, Ron. Clearly, they are not.

Nobody can sin if the 10 Commandments were not given to the entire world 'til the end of time. For sin is the breaking of the Law, the breaking of any of the 10 Commandments.

This is you making your own reasonings and make them Scripture. A classic straw man.

Nope. It is scripture, Ron.
1 John 3:4 He who commits sin, breaks the Law; sin is the breaking of the Law.
Can you break a law you were never given, Ron?
No.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So now you obey NINE of the 10 Commandments, but not the 4th. See, now we're getting to the meat of the matter. I thought the Commandments were nailed to the Cross, Ron.

GEN2REV said:
"And that day was the preparation (day before Sabbath), and the Sabbath drew on (approached). And the women ... beheld the sepulchre, and how His body was laid. And they ... prepared spices and ointments; and rested the Sabbath Day according to the Commandment."
Luke 23:54-56

What Commandment? The Commandments were GONE, Right???

Wasn't that Commandment nailed to the Cross with all the rest?

So what's the Biblical explanation for that?

Try to pay attention this time will you?

the commandments as a means of righteousness are gone forever. teh charges they laid against mankind were paid for by Jesus. that was the purpose of the commandments written in stone- to define sin and prove us as sinners and to condemn.

Your Luke citation shows jews not gentiles obeying the Sabbath, before the birth of the church.

Now I stand completely righteous in the eyes of God because of the righteousness gained for me and given to me by Jesus. NOthing I do or not do can add or take away from that righteousness. When I trusted Christ I was made a brand new creation. A child of God. The commands we obey are the life we are to live that shows we now are righteous because of jesus.


As I also said and as it shows in Scripture of the ten commands in stone which minister death and not life- 9 are in the New Testament as commands for the church to live by, to show we have been already made righteous. Of the 613 Mosaic Laws give to Moses by god on the mount only 9 are brought into the new. The church has 1008 commands we are to live by. We do not get saved by obeying them, we do not add or subtract to our salvation by them nor is God more pleased with us if we nearly perfectly follow them. these commands are there to show us how to live in the new life given to us at the monent we were saved!

But please answer my question- do you follow the Sabbath as written? do you cease labors on Saturday or do you do some work? do you make others work on your behalf by cooking for you, running storeand gas pumps for you etc.etc.etc? Please answer this.

You claim the Commandments were gone, Ron. Clearly, they are not.

As per the ten written in stone and their purpose- yes they are!

Nope. It is scripture, Ron.
1 John 3:4 He who commits sin, breaks the Law; sin is the breaking of the Law.
Can you break a law you were never given, Ron?
No.

Well I have good news for you then!

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

1. Galatians 3:24
   Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
   
   
2. Galatians 3:25
   But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

We are no longer under the law!

But if you want to place yourself under the law- you are free to do so, but as Gods Word says- the law works wraith, not righteousness

Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

See our old man in the eyes of God is dead and gone. God no longer sees our old man but the new man He is crafting into teh image of Jesus.

God judged all of our sins on the cross and Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. so there is no more penalty.

So does that mean we are free to sin?

REad Romans 6.

So what happens when we sin- we experience the wages of it in our body! God sees us as perfect as it is written in Hebrews.

But do you obey the Sabbath? do you make others defile the Sabbath on your behalf?

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Try to pay attention this time will you?

the commandments as a means of righteousness are gone forever. teh charges they laid against mankind were paid for by Jesus. that was the purpose of the commandments written in stone- to define sin and prove us as sinners and to condemn.

The fact that 1 Jhn 3:4 defines sin as violating God's commandments and Psa. 111:7-8 says their authority stands forever means the Bible clearly disagrees with your claim. That Rom. 10:4 passage you obviously misquoted ironically destroys the false arguments you're trying to make. The Greek world "telos" that is mistranslated as "end" in that passage actually means "goal" or "purpose". The truth is, Paul is actually saying "Christ is the standard of commandment-keeping that Christians must strive towards".

Christ's ministry occurred during the Old Covenant, so it would be correct for Him to obey them....within reason.
He actually changed the Mosaic Law for the Jews in a couple ways....the life for a life and a tooth for tooth...He changed for them
He changed the law on divorce for them. And a couple of times He got called on braking the Mosaic Law....but if He had the authority to change the Mosaic Law He had the authority to sway from it.

This is just another false argument that is packaged with righteous-sounding platitudes. Christ plainly stated that He did not come to oppose what was in the Law. Everything Christ taught in the Sermon on the Mount came directly from the Law. Christ didn't even change God's standpoint on divorce, because He literally quoted Gen. 2:24 to teach that marital unions were always meant to be permanent.

The Bible also clearly teaches that Judaism was the religion of the Pharisees, not the OT religion. This religion came from twisting what was in the Law and even adding man-made traditions to the Law. Christ said the Orthodox Jews didn't believe or practice what Moses wrote on at least 3 recorded occasions, and even said in Matt. 5:17 that no one was to even think that He came to start a new religion. Another obvious flaw in your theology is that Christ said man is to live by every word that came from God(Matt. 4:4), and the Law came from God. Biblical Christianity is built on everything that is written by the prophets and apostles(Eph. 2:20). Therefore, it is 100% dishonest to characterize the OT religion as inferior theology.

Another huge problem with your theology is that you misquoted Heb. 8 in a deliberate attempt to make it look like Paul is saying the problem was the Law. In Heb. 8:8, Paul quoted Jer. 31 to show that the problem was the people's unwillingness to do what was in the Law, not the Law itself. The pure irony of your argument here is that the God who gave the Law was none other than the God who became Christ.

Furthermore, Acts shows the religious leaders hiring liars to spread the same exact propaganda false Christians are spreading today about Christ:

“And they stirred up the people, the elders, and the scribes; and they came upon him, seized him, and brought him to the council. They also set up false witnesses who said, “This man does not cease to speak blasphemous words against this holy place and the law;for we have heard him(Stephen) say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs which Moses delivered to us.” - Acts 6:14

This is just more proof that antinomians don't know their own bibles. When God added several thousand people to His Church, the religious leaders and other Orthodox Jews started making those accusations to counteract the conversion rate among the Jews. The absurdity of statements like "we don't have to look the Law for ethics" is highlighted by the fact that this world's problems have existed because people won't look to the Law for ethics. This mentality just proves Paul's point in 2 Cor. 4:4 where he says Satan blinds the people who refuse to believe Christ's gospel.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The fact that 1 Jhn 3:4 defines sin as violating God's commandments and Psa. 111:7-8 says their authority stands forever means the Bible clearly disagrees with your claim. That Rom. 10:4 passage you obviously misquoted ironically destroys the false arguments you're trying to make. The Greek world "telos" that is mistranslated as "end" in that passage actually means "goal" or "purpose". The truth is, Paul is actually saying "Christ is the standard of commandment-keeping that Christians must strive towards".
This is just another false argument that is packaged with righteous-sounding platitudes. Christ plainly stated that He did not come to oppose what was in the Law. Everything Christ taught in the Sermon on the Mount came directly from the Law. Christ didn't even change God's standpoint on divorce, because He literally quoted Gen. 2:24 to teach that marital unions were always meant to be permanent.

and you know better than hundreds of thousands of Greek experts and pastors How?????

Jesus fulfilled the law thus e3nded it as a means of righteousness. We do not obey the NT^ commands to be righteous, but because we ARE righteous through Jesus. Yes we strive for perfection. I know why I do, but why do you?

The Bible also clearly teaches that Judaism was the religion of the Pharisees, not the OT religion. This religion came from twisting what was in the Law and even adding man-made traditions to the Law. Christ said the Orthodox Jews didn't believe or practice what Moses wrote on at least 3 recorded occasions, and even said in Matt. 5:17 that no one was to even think that He came to start a new religion. Another obvious flaw in your theology is that Christ said man is to live by every word that came from God(Matt. 4:4), and the Law came from God. Biblical Christianity is built on everything that is written by the prophets and apostles(Eph. 2:20). Therefore, it is 100% dishonest to characterize the OT religion as inferior theology.

Your first line is nit picking. Judaoism is considered the religion of Jews. You can be hyper technical if you wish, but I prefer the more colloquial and more understood way. He did not call them orthodox Jews- He called them Pharisees. There were many many "orthodox" Jews who were following the Law of Moses- aqll 613 command sthat make up the one law.

Every word that comes from God? Okay- do you not eat pork, shellfish,or fish with no scales? do yo not wear clothes made with mixed fabrics? Don't know if you are a guy or gal, but do you refrain from sex if married during your or you r sifes menstrual cycle if you are married?

Do you present the wave offering and sheaf offering? Do you celebrate tabernacles? All these things are th eword of God as well.

and this also is the Word of God:

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

this also is the word of God:

1. Galatians 3:24
   Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Maybe the context is applied to different people at different time. All Scripture is equally inspired, but not all Scripture is equally applicable to all people.