Bible says God alone has immortality-we don't.
1 Tim 6:16
It is he alone who has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see; to him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.
You are not immortal.
Were We Alive In Heaven Before We Were Born?
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1 Tim 6:16
It is he alone who has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see; to him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.
You are not immortal.
Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
Interesting….
Well let me ask you….
those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
I understand that's your conclusion, but is there any suporting scriptures for it? Who says we were not conscious before being born?
I heard a testimony about a little girl who was taken up by an Angel. SOmewhere in the teling of it, it came up that the little divot that we all have above our upper lip, but under our nose...she said the Angel told her that this is the place that an Angel touches them before they are born, that wipes their memory.
So we would have to go by Faith! Smart. Amnesia. Show me anywhere we have never been conscious before birth?
I agree with this. Our spirit does have the literal mind of Christ. Now if we could just make our spirit Dominant within us, more of God's work could be done and better.
Ok, so maybe we have not been transformed yet. But! We are eternal beings in spirit.
I'm saved. I'm born again of the Spirit. I have a new spirit. I have the mind of Christ within me. I am...etrnal.
I would venture to say that, the first 100 years of being an eternal being is the hardest part, lol.
If your saved, then you wont die. So you have already started your eternity, have you not?. Even if your flesh body dies, you wont!
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How would I know what was in the hearts of those men? God knows.
Who sinned, this guy or his parents? Neither the Lord said but that the Lord God and His power should be manifest to bring Him glory...so who nows what was in God's mind they day that tower fell? I dont know.
What was it that Esau, did, and do you think that God still hates him today? That is why a lot of people who suggest God is a God of hate is because of that one verse.
Hatred though, defined is just a strong disliking isn’t it?
@Truthnightmare
I feel sorry for folks who believe this way, based on their own experiences.
God speaks through the spirit. Same as always.
I think you asked the right question. It's entirely possible to have a strog dislike of someone right off the bat. They way they carry themselves, how they talk, their countenance. I get bad vibes from that guy. Assuming there has been no offense to create a dislike of the person, we have to ask the question, where did the hatred come from? It is only a strong dislike which may be simple discernment?!
WHat do you do with that? Wel, if you get bad vibes from someone, you dont give them an opputunity to give you an offense which would escalate the dislike. SOlution? Distance yourself from them. And let it go. Don't even think about him. Go on with your day.
But what if your sister lives with you and she comes back with this guy and here he is in your domain. In your castle. You can't distance yourself from him because your sister would get mad (Why are sisters so stupid?!) So he hangs out there in your place and continues to irratate you and set of your spidey sense every day. SO he thinks, how do I get rid of this guy without hurting my sister? And he dwells on it to try and come up with a solution. He didn't let if go, so it became a seed of dislike in your heart towards him, and that obnoxious guy watered that seed every day! So then the seed grew and when it began to show it's fruit, it was the fruit of hatred. Now it has become hatred in your heart. Which is damaging to your heart. Guard diligently your heart.
So it isnt about the sister anymore when it is hatred. Do not plant seeds of bitterness within your heart by dwelling on negative people or it will grow and become the type of guy that you are! So the answer is forgive the man and as polite as you can be and with as much love as you can muster...kick the guy out and tell him not to return. If the sister goes, she goes, if she stays, she stays. What does it profit a man to gain the whole wprld and to lose his very soul?
I think that's a good answer. Guard your heart from growing hatred towards anything except the enemy himself. Jesus first.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Doctrinally, I would say it is caused by the prevalent Cessationism. (that the gifts died with the Apostles)
The idea that the "perfect" that was to come is the Bible. (seriously?)
And experientially from rejecting anything outside the reading of the Bible as suspect.
Though ironically, they seem to accept one of their own testifying that God led them in some way.
(outside of a Bible text)
/ @DJT_47
He told me that He talks to everyone all day long but either they can't hear Him or reject Him and what He says.
I took this to mean that it is through our spirit and our conscience. Many people thinking it might go like this in their thoughts....
Hey maybe I can get with that one girl tonight?
(Immediately from the conscience
But you're Married and do love your Wife! (The Lord)Well it's only one night and I still think she cheated that one time still...
Don't do it. It's the wrong thing to do. Those things are never hidden long, everything comes out...
Nah, I can talk my way out of it, lol. (arrogant overconfidence)
And that guy thinks that this was just him thinking his thoughts. He had no clue that God was speaking to him through the spirit.
The Lord said to me, all day long. He used those words so maybe we're just looking at a simple identity crises? How many voices are in your head? Most people say, One. I think, therefore I am. But I pay attention when I hear a thought (voice). the carnal is easy to identify. He was the one who did want the girl. He will always go against what the spirit (conscience) says. So we have a spirit with a voice. We have a soul with a voice. We have the Holy Spirit. We have available the still small voice of God.
How do you "know" you are hearing the still small voice of God? How do you hear the still small voice of God? Can you get God to turn up the volume?! The answer is yes.
At first you have to sorta strain in faith to hear Him. Ask Him a question and then be quiet and listen inside of you for God to respond. Search for His voice. And this is how it happens: Something will pop into your head. A thought or a scripture. You have to take it in faith that God is speaking. You must acknowledge God in your focus and attention. And receive God's words as God's words.
So that means reach out in faith and grasp whatever the thought or scripture was which popped into your head and receive it as God's answer to you.
Then! You take the answer to His word and it must agree with the entirety of scripture. So if it does (and it wil!) then apply the answer to your original question and your life. And more often than not, you will find that, that was no random thought of mine, God did answer me. And it was a biblical answer. So it makes you want to go from there and do it again...and let the conversation continue! Talk your friend who is closer than a Brother some more. And I kid you not Brothers and Sisters, it turned into a regular conversation. I was indeed hearing the still small voice of God! Wow!!
It's every day now, lol. And I took note over time that, He doesnt talk like I do or like I think. There's a significant difference in His grammer and speech patterns and stuff. He talks exactly like He did in the Bible. So now that I am used to what He sounds like, it's like He did turn the volume up. If I have a a voice in my mind, there is no confusion as to who is speaking. Sometimes He wakes me up. Sometimes He says no. SOmetimes He says stuff that I dont want to agree to. I dont want to do that.
Do you know why He wrote the Bible to be so vague and without details that are easily seen? (Lol, wait for it...!)
So you might come to Him and ask Him the details. He loves small talk! I know His favorite kind of car, lol. He will answer right now many many questions. Not all questions though. I've had Him give me the silent treatment before. He's even changed the subject on me and even told me that is not for you to know.
I turned on the Radio in the truck one time (He was with me). He told me to turn it off! I did turn it off. I havent turned it back on since! He told me to not watch the news either. He said if there is something that I need to know then He will tell me.
So He has a great sense of humor too, lol!
He said before He wants for people to be able to hear His still small voice and obey instantly. Without having to make a show of it to prove Himself by having to do miracles all the time. So learning to hear His still small voice is crucial. And to obey Instantly. (He said that twice IIRC)
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Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
I would rather just ignore you as I get back to work. BYE
I *think* the first time I heard the still small voice of God (I didnt realize it at the time but I sure did hear it). I was living back in Colorado after my major traffic accident and surgery. I had my grown kids living with me again. And I woke up to the sound of both my sons fighting. It was getting very loud and I could hear things being damaged. So I got up and went out and broke it up and yelled at them a little bit. Tempers were still high and my younger son started talking smack and being very disrespectful to me. I wasnt even charging those boys rent. Being their father and also their host of a roof over their head (They were mid to upper 20's), I cautioned the younger son that he better watch his mouth with me. And he came out with such a mouthful of disrespectful slurs that I knew that, this can not be. So I decked him. And the fight was on. Mostly a wrestling match. But then we broke apart and he snatches up his cell phone and says, I'm gonna have you arrested for assault.
I laughed and didnt think anything of it. They cops showed up and one came inside to get my my side of the story and both kids went outside with another cop. And gave their story. After the cops comapared notes they decided to believe the kids indytead of the truth. Those cops showed up within 10 minutes of him calling them. My sons became friends again and double teamed me to the cos and backed each other up. So the cops told me, if we have to come back here I will be Arrested. So the cops left..
"Winning" with the cops only empowered my son to start talking smack again as soon as the cops left. But went even further and was trying to taunt me and all sorts of stuff. So I did what any stupid dad would do, I decked him again! (I dont think I over-reacted).
And he snatched up his phone and started dialing. I didnt want to be arrested so I took off waking out the door. I knew he cops would return fast. (My truck had a bad starter at that moment in time, lol!). So I was walking and praying all the way. Lord please dont let me be arrested! I continued to pray and walk. I couldnt go far because this was only about 6 months after I had that big crash (where God save dmy ife!) so I could not walk far from home. Lord please help me! Dont let me be arrested! And it was about a block and a half from my house that I heard a voice inside of me. I heard it clearly. It said, turn right at this corner. I hoping and faithing and crying out to my Lord and had to believe that this is the Lord and He is helping me! So I turned right. Then I heard it again. Go left up the alley. Then go to the right here. Go to the left. Sit here for now and rest (in the sun! Son?!!) Get up wak left go quickly...and so it went. This went on for like 45 minutes to an hour. The police had three cars looking for me to arrest me. They could not find me. And I never left a 8 or 10 block area (?) the whole time? Sometimes I would be crossing an intersection and would look up the street and several times I saw police cars i the distance crossing an intersection a few blocks down! Then after about an hour of this I hear the voice say it's ok now you can go bac home. So I began praising God and thanking Him! Then I thought, Uh-Oh what's going to happen when I get back home again? So I prayed again, Lord please let the spirit of peace descend upon my house! It was all I had! So I rolled with it and went home.
And when I walked in my house again I got the shock of my life, lol. Both my kids were very verrry apologetic and peaceful to me. It was like night and day. Praise the Lord. If that aint straight out of Psalm 91 I dont know what is then!
But the voice that led me around the neighbrohood was different than the still small voice that I hear today. Maybe it was His still small voice? Maybe it was the Holy Spirit? Or even an Angel on Assignment? I think it must have been the Holy Spirit speaking to me. I didnt recognize the voice ike I did the audible voice of Jesus.
So the Lord's Holy Spirit rescued me that day. That voice was louder within me than the still small voice of God, which is Jesus.
True story!
I laughed and didnt think anything of it. They cops showed up and one came inside to get my my side of the story and both kids went outside with another cop. And gave their story. After the cops comapared notes they decided to believe the kids indytead of the truth. Those cops showed up within 10 minutes of him calling them. My sons became friends again and double teamed me to the cos and backed each other up. So the cops told me, if we have to come back here I will be Arrested. So the cops left..
"Winning" with the cops only empowered my son to start talking smack again as soon as the cops left. But went even further and was trying to taunt me and all sorts of stuff. So I did what any stupid dad would do, I decked him again! (I dont think I over-reacted).
And he snatched up his phone and started dialing. I didnt want to be arrested so I took off waking out the door. I knew he cops would return fast. (My truck had a bad starter at that moment in time, lol!). So I was walking and praying all the way. Lord please dont let me be arrested! I continued to pray and walk. I couldnt go far because this was only about 6 months after I had that big crash (where God save dmy ife!) so I could not walk far from home. Lord please help me! Dont let me be arrested! And it was about a block and a half from my house that I heard a voice inside of me. I heard it clearly. It said, turn right at this corner. I hoping and faithing and crying out to my Lord and had to believe that this is the Lord and He is helping me! So I turned right. Then I heard it again. Go left up the alley. Then go to the right here. Go to the left. Sit here for now and rest (in the sun! Son?!!) Get up wak left go quickly...and so it went. This went on for like 45 minutes to an hour. The police had three cars looking for me to arrest me. They could not find me. And I never left a 8 or 10 block area (?) the whole time? Sometimes I would be crossing an intersection and would look up the street and several times I saw police cars i the distance crossing an intersection a few blocks down! Then after about an hour of this I hear the voice say it's ok now you can go bac home. So I began praising God and thanking Him! Then I thought, Uh-Oh what's going to happen when I get back home again? So I prayed again, Lord please let the spirit of peace descend upon my house! It was all I had! So I rolled with it and went home.
And when I walked in my house again I got the shock of my life, lol. Both my kids were very verrry apologetic and peaceful to me. It was like night and day. Praise the Lord. If that aint straight out of Psalm 91 I dont know what is then!
But the voice that led me around the neighbrohood was different than the still small voice that I hear today. Maybe it was His still small voice? Maybe it was the Holy Spirit? Or even an Angel on Assignment? I think it must have been the Holy Spirit speaking to me. I didnt recognize the voice ike I did the audible voice of Jesus.
So the Lord's Holy Spirit rescued me that day. That voice was louder within me than the still small voice of God, which is Jesus.
True story!
Jewish “Ideal” Preexistence
In the English language, and certainly the way young people speak, we often speak about something that happened in the past as though it is happening in the present. For instance, a witness to a bank robbery might say, “And here I am standing in line minding my own business, when bursting through the door comes as a hooded bank robber. He tells us all to get on the floor. He waves his gun around and threatens us. Then he goes up to the teller and yells, ‘Give me the money!’” We understand the events described occurred in the past, even though the narrative is in the present. Speaking of past events in the present is a peculiarity of the English language.
Most languages have peculiarities. The Hebrew mind and language has a peculiarity that English speakers are not accustomed to. They do the opposite of what I have just described. They often use the past tense or the present tense to speak of events yet future. The reason is that the Jews believed that whatever was determined in the mind of God existed before it came to be in history. God is the God who calls the things which do not exist as (already) existing (Rom. 4:17). God promised Abraham that He would give him the promised land and that he would be the father of many descendents. So sure is the fulfillment that sometimes the predictive language is in the past tense, as though it were already accomplished: “To your descendents I “have given” this land” (Gen 15:18). It came to be a common feature of Hebrew thinking that whatever God had decreed already preexisted (in plan and purpose) before it materialized on earth. “When the Jews wished to designate something as predestined, he spoke of it as already existing in heaven.
Scripture tells us that Jesus Christ “was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times” for our sakes who believe in God's word (1Pet. 1:20). This does not mean that Jesus personally preexisted his appearance on earth, because in the same chapter we find that Christians have also been in the “foreknowledge of God the Father” (1Pet. 1:2). The words “foreknowledge” and “foreknown,” noun and verb, are exactly alike. Peter uses precisely the same idea to refer to both Christians and Jesus. Christians do not preexisted heaven before our birth on earth nor did Jesus.
Similarly, the Bible speaks of Jesus as the Lamb of God who was crucified before the world began (Rev.13:8). Every Bible reader of course knows that Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate in Palestine in the first century. But God ordained his crucifixion to happen before he even created the universe. Therefore, in God's mind, and in the Hebrew understanding, that which came to be had already been. The prophetic future was spoken of in the past tense. What God has decreed, He says is as good as done.
In John 17, Jesus prays just before his arrest in the garden, “I glorify You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given me to do. And now, glorify me together with Yourself, Father, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” (v.4-5) If ever there was a statement that proved the personal preexistence of Jesus with the Father in heaven before he came to earth, surely this is it. Once again, we must caution against haste, for “In Biblical ways of speaking and thinking one may ‘have’ something which is promised in God's plan before one actually has its.” We have already seen this principle in operation, where God's plan of promises are spoken in the “prophetic past tense.” God promised Abraham, “I have given you this land.” God says to Christians, “You are seated with Christ in the heavenlies; you are already glorified (Eph. 2:6; Rom.8:30).
We have these things already in the plan and purpose of God -- even though we do not (yet) have them! Scripture tells us that we have eternal life as a present possession, even though clearly we await the day of our entrance into the life of the Age to come, whether by resurrection for those already dead, or the rapture of the living, when Christ returns. God calls the things that are not as though they already exist (Rom. 4:17). Clearly, in Hebrew thinking, the glory which Jesus had “with” God before the world was, it is the glory that it was present in God's mind and purpose from the beginning.
When we examine the rest of Jesus's prayer, it becomes quite clear that the glory Jesus claimed to have had “with the father before the world was” is a glory in prospect. Jesus is using the peculiar Hebrew way of thinking and speaking by which the past tense is employed to speak of the future. To confirm this all we need to do is follow Jesus’ prayer through. Jesus speaks as though he has already accomplished his work: he says I have “accomplished a work which you have gave me to do” (v.4). Quite obviously he has not actually finish the work because his crucifixion has not yet happened, and his cry from the cross, “It is finished,” has not yet been uttered. Next, Jesus speaks as though the disciples have already fully glorified him (through their preaching ministry) even though the resurrection has not yet happened: he prays, “I have been glorified in them” (v.10).
Jesus also says “I am no more in the world” (v.11) even though he clearly is still in the world. In his own mind, he is already, by faith in the father's promise, sitting in heaven having been resurrected. Jesus says he has already sent the disciples into the world to preach: he prays, “I have sent them into the world” (v.18), even though this did not fully happen until after the resurrection. Jesus prays for his disciples, and “for those also who[will] believed in me through their word” (v.20). That is, he prays for subsequent generations of Christians who will come to faith in Christ down the track. He prays that “the glory which You have given me I have given to them (v.22). He prays that all these believers “which you have given me” (the whole future community of faith) may behold my glory, which You have given me; for You did love [choose] me before the foundation of the world (v.24).
One day the Lord Jesus at his second coming will say to his own people, “Come, you who are blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world” (Matt 25:34). In Paul’s language this hope is “laid up for you in heaven” which means it is in God’s promise and plan and is certain of fulfillment (Col. 1:5). This hope is so certain that Paul can even speak of Christians as already glorified (Romans 8:29–30, noting the past tense). Indeed, this plan hatched in God’s mind “according to His own purpose in grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity” (2 Tim 1:9). Dunn, in his book, Christology in the Making p238 adds: “The gift was purposed ‘ages ago,’ unless we are to take it that the actual giving and receiving, ‘us’ and ‘Christ Jesus’ were all alike preexistent.” This hope of Christians entering into the age to come was “promised long ages ago” (Tit 1:2). Dunn continues p238.
“Here it is even clearer that what is thought of as happening “ages ago” is God’s promise; and it is that promise of eternal life which has been manifested. Indeed, the text says it is his word that he has manifested - that is, not Christ the Logos, but the word of promise, fulfilled in Christ and offered now back in the kerygma [ message]. In other words, we are back where we started – Christ as the content of the word of preaching, the embodiment of the predetermined plan of salvation, the fulfillment of the divine purpose.”
Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
Good! You addressed me with an insult, so all I did was match your energy. Good riddance!
Ok, let's look at this from a different angle. God was making a living human soul, man. He used clay from the earth as an ingrediant. He used His own Breath as in ingrediant.
He breathed into the clay figurine His Breath of Life...and man became a human soul, right?
Now then, that second ingrediant that God supplied from Him self...was his breath. Was it alive? Well He called it the Breath of Life so my guess is Yes it was alive. God is God of the living not the dead. God did not take a dead ingrediant to make life, lol! It was a live ingrediant, the breath of life. Isn't that simple enough?
God didnt tell man I ordained you before the foundation of the world. He said I knew you. That's quite a different word. Or maybe, God took an unconscious part of Himself to put into man?! Uhh, no.
He knew us since before we were formed in the womb
"That which is perfect" is not Christ nor the great day of the Lord. Jesus is not a "that" and neither is the great day of the Lord. Referring to either in that contrite manner is extremely derogatory, unbecoming both. Go figure what it means. I've written about this before. Look it up.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
What do you think? (forum topic link below)
Skepticism versus gullibility
Just heard a sermon that came down pretty hard on skepticism.
Trying to process how I feel about that. Thanks for listening. (send help)
It appears that there is no room for healthy skepticism in the church.
But for some reason the skeptics weren't called gullible. No one was, actually.
We are offered apologetics to counteract skepticism. (unbelief)
I was raised evangelical Protestant.
I remember my state of shock when I found out where the Bible actually came from.
Not what the church told me.
I had never heard of the canon of scripture.
I thought a cannon was a war relic, not a religious relic. - Ha!
Same with the hell doctrine.
No one informed me that there were three biblical doctrines of the final judgment.
They did bad-mouth Universalism though.
I had no idea that Universalism was actually a Christian doctrine from the early church in the East.
Which is where the church came from, hello?
And what about inerrancy? Don't get me started... Grr...
Anyone else want to rant on either aspect? Thanks.
/
Skepticism versus gullibility
Just heard a sermon that came down pretty hard on skepticism.
Trying to process how I feel about that. Thanks for listening. (send help)
It appears that there is no room for healthy skepticism in the church.
But for some reason the skeptics weren't called gullible. No one was, actually.
We are offered apologetics to counteract skepticism. (unbelief)
I was raised evangelical Protestant.
I remember my state of shock when I found out where the Bible actually came from.
Not what the church told me.
I had never heard of the canon of scripture.
I thought a cannon was a war relic, not a religious relic. - Ha!
Same with the hell doctrine.
No one informed me that there were three biblical doctrines of the final judgment.
They did bad-mouth Universalism though.
I had no idea that Universalism was actually a Christian doctrine from the early church in the East.
Which is where the church came from, hello?
And what about inerrancy? Don't get me started... Grr...
Anyone else want to rant on either aspect? Thanks.
/
Yes there are spirits that enter bodies to be alive. They call it the womb of heaven where the spirits await their bodies at birth. That is clearly the nature behind possession as well.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
