What’s Wrong with Western Missionaries?

[bbyrd009]

yes, you are now the oppressed, and the victim, surely

 

[Stranger]

yes, you are now the oppressed, and the victim, surely

Again, why not try and defend your statements instead of making it about me.

Answer: because you can't.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Again, why not try and defend your statements instead of making it about me.

Answer: because you can't.

Stranger

you just happen to be the proxy here, for all of the ones who condemn God, like you are doing.

I have already defended my statements adequately. We are to judge by the fruit, and Islam recognizes Christ, and even goes so far as to assure a Muslim that they must follow Christ or be doomed, but of course you must justify drone bombing them and making millions homeless so that you can have your oil and your oxycodone, and to prevent Gold Dinars from ruining your dollar.

So you show who your true master is, when you pledge allegiance to the flag, and bow to the MSM, and when you cannot witness any sins committed upon you by the thousands, tens of thousands of Muslims that surround you right now, you are seen to be sitting on a fence, Stranger, with all due respect, because i do understand and sympathize, and Empires in Decadence are going to sow the wind anyway, but as it is your children who will be reaping the whirlwind, after you are gone, the least you might do is not be cheering for the downfall, and recognizing that that is what has got us to here, this "All Muslims are lost" yack that it is you who in fact cannot support with Scripture, unless you open It real fast and read one verse, after you have taken an oxycodone.

So, being as how the end result is easy to read, and you are so obviously not representing the oppressed, where God is, i will tell you that your dog is still the biggest dog in the world, for now, but i'm betting your pal Trump is going to finish flushing that, and the tide has already, obviously, turned, and the minute your dog stumbles, he will be torn to shreds by his many enemies, and your daughters, who do not understand your hate for Muslims, will marry them, many of them, and what you have been advocating your whole life will manifest, because God allows a nation to go the way of those who call upon Him in it, those "who are called by His Name," and your condemnation of people on the other side of the planet, whom you can witness no sins from upon you, is being heard and acted upon.

 

[Stranger]

bbyrd009

The christ islam recognizes is not the Christ of the Bible. islam and muslims do not believe Jesus is the Son of God. That is what is necessary for salvation. So, no, you offer nothing as proof that muslims are like Christians in that they both believe in Jesus.

So, pay attention. When a muslim accepts Christ as their Lord and Saviour, they cease to be muslim. While one is a muslim they are in a false releigion and one that teaches lies about God and Christ. They are enemies of God.

So, as usual, nice speech but no content.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

bbyrd009

The christ islam recognizes is not the Christ of the Bible. islam and muslims do not believe Jesus is the Son of God. That is what is necessary for salvation. So, no, you offer nothing as proof that muslims are like Christians in that they both believe in Jesus.

So, pay attention. When a muslim accepts Christ as their Lord and Saviour, they cease to be muslim. While one is a muslim they are in a false releigion and one that teaches lies about God and Christ. They are enemies of God.

So, as usual, nice speech but no content.

Stranger

No, actually Muslims do just fine accepting Christ within their own belief system, of course, and God does not care what belief system one uses, and we have abundant Scripture for this, that God judges one's heart, and as usual your latest ice cream castle contains no Scripture, of course, because Scripture condemns you, your own Book, so as usual you are just busy petting yourself, and voting against Muslim immigration to boot, but now you have been plainly told, and you cannot defend yourself with the Bible, of course, and i will tell you that your blanket condemnations of those you do not know are also finally beginning to be proscribed on Christian forums, and in 5 years you will be forced to limit yourself to hate-sites, and white-supremacy sites, where you belong. Best of luck to you.

 

[bbyrd009]

19These people create divisions and are unbelievers, not having the Spirit.

 

[Stranger]

No, actually Muslims do just fine accepting Christ within their own belief system, of course, and God does not care what belief system one uses, and we have abundant Scripture for this, that God judges one's heart, and as usual your latest ice cream castle contains no Scripture, of course, because Scripture condemns you, your own Book, so as usual you are just busy petting yourself, and voting against Muslim immigration to boot, but now you have been plainly told, and you cannot defend yourself with the Bible, of course, and i will tell you that your blanket condemnations of those you do not know are also finally beginning to be proscribed on Christian forums, and in 5 years you will be forced to limit yourself to hate-sites, and white-supremacy sites, where you belong. Best of luck to you.

Well, what belief system is that? Explain it.

It doesn't matter what the muslims system is. Because it is against God. It is contrary to Christ and the Bible.

I have given you many Scriptures already which you refuse to believe. Do you really want more? Better yet, tell me if the muslims believe Christ is The Son of God.

Yes, Christians will be limited to hate sites because belief of the truth is being defined by the world as 'hate'.

I don't need luck. That's for you muslims. I trust God and Christ. The real Christ of the Bible. Not the phony christ of islam.

Stranger

 

[Josho]

What’s Wrong with Western Missionaries?
Article by Nik Ripken ~ Desiring God
Their words almost knocked me over. They hit me like a horse hoof to the gut.
When I was a young boy, I helped my father train quarter horses. And we always felt the danger of being the recipient of a wayward hoof. One day, not paying close attention, I was kicked, leaving a well-defined hoof print in the center of my stomach. Every ounce of breath left my body.

Decades later, challenging words delivered by believers from an Islamic background left me just as breathless.
http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-s-wrong-with-western-missionaries

What's wrong with most Western Missionaries?

I would say most of the persecuted Christians are closer to God than most Western missionaries, sure it's a good lesson for Westerners to go on missionary trips, but as Christians in the West we really need to step up there game, and no i don't mean we lack a lot of missionaries, but most of our missionaries in the West, are far too distracted by worldly things, I'm not a missionary myself, but i speak because of all the wonderful stories i have heard of the persecuted nations involving Jesus, what he has done in their lives, how he has protected them even though they were persecuted, how he has helped them to spread the gospel to many, many villages, leading hundreds of thousands to Jesus, how there has been many miracles among them, how they have really and i mean really lived there lives by faith, some of it is stuff of revivals, that we haven't seen since the Azusa Street revival and Welsh revival. Now that's where we all need to step up our game... While it's good a lot of missionaries are being generous and helping those in need supplying physical stuff, but a lot don't realize it's the Westerners who are in need of the spiritual things. Even though the persecuted Christians don't all have the Bible, the Holy Spirit tells them in dreams and visions and by speaking his words right into their ears. Now I'm not suggesting we don't need a Bible, it's great to have one, but we need to get closer to God by not leaning on our own human understanding, so we can receive all that he has got to offer to us, whether if it's through dreams, visions, the voice, tongues, interpretation of tongues, healing hands, prophecy or leading people to Jesus by being led by the Holy Spirit, being led by the Holy Spirit is a lot different to relying on your understanding of God's word to lead people to Jesus. Another issue with western missionaries, not all have experienced a true baptism of the Holy Spirit, if you have not had one, or if you don't think you have had one, or if you are unsure whether you have had a true Holy Spirit baptism or not, ask God for your own personal Pentecost, for your own Holy Spirit baptism, while I'm across the net just behind a computer screen, the Holy Spirit can lay hands on ya, if you wanna experience more from the Holy Spirit for yourself, your time is now and I'm sure a number of us would be happy to come into agreement with you, he has a lot more to offer than just salvation, salvation is only just the beginning, and you can have a lot more if you choose too.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, what belief system is that? Explain it.

It doesn't matter what the muslims system is. Because it is against God. It is contrary to Christ and the Bible.

I have given you many Scriptures already which you refuse to believe. Do you really want more? Better yet, tell me if the muslims believe Christ is The Son of God.

Yes, Christians will be limited to hate sites because belief of the truth is being defined by the world as 'hate'.

I don't need luck. That's for you muslims. I trust God and Christ. The real Christ of the Bible. Not the phony christ of islam.

Stranger

the belief system that assures them they must follow after Christ or be doomed, which with all due respect they might be doing way better at than a lot of Christians, me included. Look, if you want to insist on your Scriptures, so you can hate and create divisions, and have an "us" and a "them" so you can feel superior, as you drone bomb them back to the Stone Age, but of course do not claim responsibility there, as a voter and tax payer, because after all how can the two possibly be connected, and you refuse to reflect upon any Scripture that might ameliorate your pov, and further refuse to see the illuminations of the concept "hypocrite" in your own Book, your god--from your own mouth, right? "The Bible is the Word"--then by all means do so.

You might actually read the article, it is revealing. Being as how i could not currently recommend that you actually go spend a day and meet a Muslim, in your state of mind. Yikes.

 

[bbyrd009]

What's wrong with most Western Missionaries?

I would say most of the persecuted Christians are closer to God than most Western missionaries, sure it's a good lesson for Westerners to go on missionary trips, but as Christians in the West we really need to step up there game, and no i don't mean we lack a lot of missionaries, but most of our missionaries in the West, are far too distracted by worldly things, I'm not a missionary myself, but i speak because of all the wonderful stories i have heard of the persecuted nations involving Jesus, what he has done in their lives, how he has protected them even though they were persecuted, how he has helped them to spread the gospel to many, many villages, leading hundreds of thousands to Jesus, how there has been many miracles among them, how they have really and i mean really lived there lives by faith, some of it is stuff of revivals, that we haven't seen since the Azusa Street revival and Welsh revival. Now that's where we all need to step up our game... While it's good a lot of missionaries are being generous and helping those in need supplying physical stuff, but a lot don't realize it's the Westerners who are in need of the spiritual things. Even though the persecuted Christians don't all have the Bible, the Holy Spirit tells them in dreams and visions and by speaking his words right into their ears. Now I'm not suggesting we don't need a Bible, it's great to have one, but we need to get closer to God by not leaning on our own human understanding, so we can receive all that he has got to offer to us, whether if it's through dreams, visions, the voice, tongues, interpretation of tongues, healing hands, prophecy or leading people to Jesus by being led by the Holy Spirit, being led by the Holy Spirit is a lot different to relying on your understanding of God's word to lead people to Jesus. Another issue with western missionaries, not all have experienced a true baptism of the Holy Spirit, if you have not had one, or if you don't think you have had one, or if you are unsure whether you have had a true Holy Spirit baptism or not, ask God for your own personal Pentecost, for your own Holy Spirit baptism, while I'm across the net just behind a computer screen, the Holy Spirit can lay hands on ya, if you wanna experience more from the Holy Spirit for yourself, your time is now and I'm sure a number of us would be happy to come into agreement with you, he has a lot more to offer than just salvation, salvation is only just the beginning, and you can have a lot more if you choose too.

very nice. I hold a bit different view of Spirit Baptism, one might describe it as less religious, but so what, it is the same thing in principle. I only post this to suggest to those who have rejected religion that the Spirit is just as available to the First Son, the Stater of "I will not go," as anyone else. God does not care about your intentions, or your grand declarations. It is what you do that matters.

 

[Stranger]

the belief system that assures them they must follow after Christ or be doomed, which with all due respect they might be doing way better at than a lot of Christians, me included. Look, if you want to insist on your Scriptures, so you can hate and create divisions, and have an "us" and a "them" so you can feel superior, as you drone bomb them back to the Stone Age, but of course do not claim responsibility there, as a voter and tax payer, because after all how can the two possibly be connected, and you refuse to reflect upon any Scripture that might ameliorate your pov, and further refuse to see the illuminations of the concept "hypocrite" in your own Book, your god--from your own mouth, right? "The Bible is the Word"--then by all means do so.

You might actually read the article, it is revealing. Being as how i could not currently recommend that you actually go spend a day and meet a Muslim, in your state of mind. Yikes.

muslims don't have any such belief system. Try again.

The Scriptures do create an 'us' and 'them'. It provides the way of salvation. The 'only' way.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

muslims don't have any such belief system. Try again.

sure they do, and they practice it way better than you do, that is for sure. It just does not fit with your preconceived conclusions, wherein you must be worshipped as the Guardian of all Knowledge, and we must all come and serve at the altar of Stranger.

The Scriptures do create an 'us' and 'them'. It provides the way of salvation. The 'only' way.

Stranger
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
yes, it outlines a spiritual concept that you amply demonstrate you do not understand, when you do not forgive, and deny that you need forgiveness, as you simultaneously postulate multiple gods, Jesus, the Bible, yourself, etc, and refuse to engage in debates upon the nature of those, because, after all, you are God, right, and you already know, and there is nothing you do not know.

So, the Scriptures do suggest an "us" and a "them," because God is also a Master Psychologist, and knew to put bait in There for hypocrites and the terminally judgemental to out themselves, to separate their joints from their marrow, so that they may be revealed. It mos def provides the Way, the Only Way, which is a spiritual principle, not contained in your childish, insistent, literal understanding, and the Book will even tell you as much--oh, except it is in those passages that you do not read, and will not address when posted in discussion.

So by all means, answer me with some more Proclamation from on High, if you like, and pretend the 7 times worse off could not possibly be yourself. We all reap what we sow, Stranger.

 

[Stranger]

sure they do, and they practice it way better than you do, that is for sure. It just does not fit with your preconceived conclusions, wherein you must be worshipped as the Guardian of all Knowledge, and we must all come and serve at the altar of Stranger.



So, the Scriptures do suggest an "us" and a "them," because God is also a Master Psychologist, and knew to put bait in There for hypocrites and the terminally judgemental to out themselves, to separate their joints from their marrow, so that they may be revealed. It mos def provides the Way, the Only Way, which is a spiritual principle, not contained in your childish, insistent, literal understanding, and the Book will even tell you as much--oh, except it is in those passages that you do not read, and will not address when posted in discussion.

So by all means, answer me with some more Proclamation from on High, if you like, and pretend the 7 times worse off could not possibly be yourself. We all reap what we sow, Stranger.

I assure your they don't. If you believe they do then show it. Show where they must believe in Christ for salvation. For that matter, show where faith is required for their salvation. Are you just as ignorant of islam as you are Christianity? Of course you are.

Scripture provides an 'us' and 'them' because it proclaims only one way of salvation. Thus, if you don't come that way, then you are a 'them'. Not hard. God always divides. Man always wants to unite under some pseudo spiritual union apart from God.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

I assure your they don't. If you believe they do then show it. Show where they must believe in Christ for salvation. For that matter, show where faith is required for their salvation. Are you just as ignorant of islam as you are Christianity? Of course you are.

i assure you that you have not the slightest clue what you are talking about, and that the Qur'an stresses that one must follow Christ's example in many, many places, which i am not going to bother to show you, because i doubt that you even read people's posts, let alone have a clue what Muslims believe. And i could quote some more Bible at you to confirm this, but you are obviously so broken that you would not be able to grasp their meaning, either. You are trapped, and must now imagine that all Muslims are lost, so that you can justify the atrocities that your are currently condoning upon them, and my only vindication will be that History will excuse Hitler, where you will not be excused, because you have Hitler's bad example available to you, but are blind to the lesson.

Scripture provides an 'us' and 'them' because it proclaims only one way of salvation. Thus, if you don't come that way, then you are a 'them'. Not hard. God always divides. Man always wants to unite under some pseudo spiritual union apart from God.

which you apparently have raised into an art form, not realizing that in your rejection of mercy, and your disavowal of forgiveness, and any need for it, you have placed yourself firmly in the "them" camp, even as you imagine that you are qualified to judge others whom you have never met, and oh incidentally are currently bombing the crap out of. Ok. Have it your way. But don't kid yourself, you are as transparent as i am, and you have now been amply cautioned. Keep turning Christ down, and refusing to change your mind, and see what happens.

Scripture provides an 'us' and 'them' because it proclaims only one way of salvation. Thus, if you don't come that way, then you are a 'them'. Not hard. God always divides. Man always wants to unite under some pseudo spiritual union apart from God.

Scripture provides an 'us' and 'them' because it proclaims only one way of salvation. Thus, if you don't come that way, then you are a 'them'. Not hard. God always divides. Man always wants to unite under some pseudo spiritual union apart from God.

 

[bbyrd009]

So, the Scriptures do suggest an "us" and a "them," because God is also a Master Psychologist, and knew to put bait in There for hypocrites and the terminally judgemental to out themselves, to separate their joints from their marrow, so that they may be revealed. It mos def provides the Way, the Only Way, which is a spiritual principle, not contained in your childish, insistent, literal understanding, and the Book will even tell you as much--oh, except it is in those passages that you do not read, and will not address when posted in discussion.

So by all means, answer me with some more Proclamation from on High, if you like, and pretend the 7 times worse off could not possibly be yourself. We all reap what we sow, Stranger.

here i'll just repost this for you, since you obviously overlooked it, which i do understand, being as how it was 2 sentences down and all.

 

[Stranger]

i assure you that you have not the slightest clue what you are talking about, and that the Qur'an stresses that one must follow Christ's example in many, many places, which i am not going to bother to show you, because i doubt that you even read people's posts, let alone have a clue what Muslims believe. And i could quote some more Bible at you to confirm this, but you are obviously so broken that you would not be able to grasp their meaning, either. You are trapped, and must now imagine that all Muslims are lost, so that you can justify the atrocities that your are currently condoning upon them, and my only vindication will be that History will excuse Hitler, where you will not be excused, because you have Hitler's bad example available to you, but are blind to the lesson.

All you have to do is provide the statements in the koran that say they have a belief system in Christ. That is what you said. You're not going to bother to show me because they don't exist. Islam does not have a belief system in Christ for salvation.

All muslims are lost. They don't believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God. They don't place faith in Him as their Lord and Saviour. And, I am not concerned over the atrocities done to the muslims. They are an atrocity themselves.

Why do you want to make my statements look like yours? Manipulation? That is necessary when you have nothing to offer. Nothing new, many do it.

Anyway, show me something. Show me Islams belief system in Christ for salvation.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

here i'll just repost this for you, since you obviously overlooked it, which i do understand, being as how it was 2 sentences down and all.

No, I saw it.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Anyway, show me something. Show me Islams belief system in Christ for salvation.

not interested, thanks. It is you that needs to change your mind, not any of the believing Muslims i know. You might read your own Book, and recognize that Christ is a Spirit, not contained in your empty confessions, but manifested wherever people accept forgiveness, and forgive, and confess their wrongs to people, when they commit them; so that lets you out, by your own lips, would you like me to quote you? Go show yourself.

There's like at least ten direct references to following Christ in the Qur`an, and your google is not broken, and i am not your mommy.

 

[Stranger]

not interested, thanks. It is you that needs to change your mind, not any of the believing Muslims i know. You might read your own Book, and recognize that Christ is a Spirit, not contained in your empty confessions, but manifested wherever people accept forgiveness, and forgive, and confess their wrongs to people, when they commit them; so that lets you out, by your own lips, would you like me to quote you? Go show yourself.

There's like at least ten direct references to following Christ in the Qur`an, and your google is not broken, and i am not your mommy.

Your interested in spouting off lies. Why wouldn't you be interested in defending them. Again, islam has no faith system trusting Christ for salvation. They have no faith system at all for salvation.

Again, the christ in the koran is not the Christ of the Bible. There is no redemption offered in the christ of the koran. I don't need google. Apparently you need it and have found that you are mistaken. Thus, your lack of interest. I understand.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

You know what i'm learning? Still learning? That truth really is subjective. I mean, completely subjective. Muslims are, truthfully, as lost and surely bloodthirsty to you, as they are passionate, erudite, and open to me; and truth must then become an object of perception (veil), a way of looking at a thing, which completely involves faith, but of a different definition. Faith that now manifests, in what you are doing right now. What you are doing right now is all that matters, and it is going to be manifesting your truth, right now, and someone else's truth (veil) only exists when you seek it. And it is always there to be found.