What’s Wrong with Western Missionaries?

[Angelina]

What’s Wrong with Western Missionaries?
Article by Nik Ripken ~ Desiring God
Their words almost knocked me over. They hit me like a horse hoof to the gut.
When I was a young boy, I helped my father train quarter horses. And we always felt the danger of being the recipient of a wayward hoof. One day, not paying close attention, I was kicked, leaving a well-defined hoof print in the center of my stomach. Every ounce of breath left my body.

Decades later, challenging words delivered by believers from an Islamic background left me just as breathless.
http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-s-wrong-with-western-missionaries

 

[rockytopva]

I have tried to be a missionary right here in my living room by designing videos...

https://www.youtube.com/c/rockytopva

This week I have been getting over 1000 views a day on some days, average around 800 views a day. And people have been watching them all over the world. So, I have been doing my part.

 

[Peccator]

I live in Turkey, and have traveled to a number of the Islamic countries in the region including UAE, Qatar, Lebanon and Iran. One thing I realized is that the religious statistics are completely useless. In Turkey, when you are born, your religion is registered based on the family you are born into. So, you are a Muslim for the rest of your life on paper, irregardless whether you convert to another religion, or abandon religion altogether. They also apply their definitions very arbitrarily: About 20-25% of Turkey are Alevis. It is a strange Shiite/Shamanistic religion that does technically believe in the Quran, but doesn't pray, doesn't have Mosques, doesn't cover women's hair (or have gender inequality), they drink and doesn't follow any of the Shariah based laws of Islam. For statistics reasons they are included in Islam, but in practice are ostracized and hated. People are so hungry for the gospel here, because there is nothing more cold or distant than the god of Islam.

 

[junobet]

I live in Turkey, and have traveled to a number of the Islamic countries in the region including UAE, Qatar, Lebanon and Iran. One thing I realized is that the religious statistics are completely useless. In Turkey, when you are born, your religion is registered based on the family you are born into. So, you are a Muslim for the rest of your life on paper, irregardless whether you convert to another religion, or abandon religion altogether. They also apply their definitions very arbitrarily: About 20-25% of Turkey are Alevis. It is a strange Shiite/Shamanistic religion that does technically believe in the Quran, but doesn't pray, doesn't have Mosques, doesn't cover women's hair (or have gender inequality), they drink and doesn't follow any of the Shariah based laws of Islam. For statistics reasons they are included in Islam, but in practice are ostracized and hated. People are so hungry for the gospel here, because there is nothing more cold or distant than the god of Islam.

Well, the last Turkish person I spoke with about religion was a devout Muslim and very respectful of my Christian faith. He clearly was of the opinion that while we have different religious views and ways of worship, the God we worship is one and the same.

 

[lforrest]

Well, the last Turkish person I spoke with about religion was a devout Muslim and very respectful of my Christian faith. He clearly was of the opinion that while we have different religious views and ways of worship, the God we worship is one and the same.

Except you would both be wrong. They both may be Abrahamic religions, but there is a distinction that makes all the difference. Muslims do not believe Jesus to be God, therefore they can not be the same God.

 

[junobet]

Except you would both be wrong. They both may be Abrahamic religions, but there is a distinction that makes all the difference. Muslims do not believe Jesus to be God, therefore they can not be the same God.

Is that so?
That raises the question whether you also think that Jews and Christians believe in an altogether different God, because Jews don’t believe Jesus to be God.
Personally there is no question in my mind that while Athanasius and Arius had massive differences in opinion about the Trinity the one thing that they agreed upon was that they were arguing about the same God. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arian_controversy)
So it seems to me you are confusing the description with what is described. A friend of mine is colourblind: when I point to a red flower, he doesn’t see it as red, yet, it’s not that he sees a different flower, he just sees the same flower in a different way.

 

[Stranger]

Is that so?
That raises the question whether you also think that Jews and Christians believe in an altogether different God, because Jews don’t believe Jesus to be God.
Personally there is no question in my mind that while Athanasius and Arius had massive differences in opinion about the Trinity the one thing that they agreed upon was that they were arguing about the same God. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arian_controversy)
So it seems to me you are confusing the description with what is described. A friend of mine is colourblind: when I point to a red flower, he doesn’t see it as red, yet, it’s not that he sees a different flower, he just sees the same flower in a different way.

Yes that is so. There is nothing similar between Christianity and islam.

The Jews who followed God, believed in the same God and became Christians. The Jews who rejected God, which they did, do not follow the same God.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Is that so?
That raises the question whether you also think that Jews and Christians believe in an altogether different God, because Jews don’t believe Jesus to be God.
Personally there is no question in my mind that while Athanasius and Arius had massive differences in opinion about the Trinity the one thing that they agreed upon was that they were arguing about the same God. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arian_controversy)
So it seems to me you are confusing the description with what is described. A friend of mine is colourblind: when I point to a red flower, he doesn’t see it as red, yet, it’s not that he sees a different flower, he just sees the same flower in a different way.

Amen. Many Muslims i have known are better Christians than many Christians i have known. Of course, Muslims are just people, too; but anyone telling you that a Muslim cannot be accepted is just a programmed hater.

 

[Stranger]

It really doesn't matter if muslims are better than Christians. They are not Christians. And that is the point. And because they are not Chrstians, then they are lost and going to hell.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

ya, no, they aren't, and you are not the judge of that, thank God. And your twisted interpretation of Scripture is not, either. God judges the hearts of men, and you are not God, no matter how much you have convinced yourself that you are.

Merry Christmas!

 

[bbyrd009]

What’s Wrong with Western Missionaries?
Article by Nik Ripken ~ Desiring God
Their words almost knocked me over. They hit me like a horse hoof to the gut.
When I was a young boy, I helped my father train quarter horses. And we always felt the danger of being the recipient of a wayward hoof. One day, not paying close attention, I was kicked, leaving a well-defined hoof print in the center of my stomach. Every ounce of breath left my body.

Decades later, challenging words delivered by believers from an Islamic background left me just as breathless.
http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-s-wrong-with-western-missionaries

that was very cool

 

[Stranger]

ya, no, they aren't, and you are not the judge of that, thank God. And your twisted interpretation of Scripture is not, either. God judges the hearts of men, and you are not God, no matter how much you have convinced yourself that you are.

Merry Christmas!

islam is not of God. They reject Jesus Christ. Therefore all muslims are going to hell.

The Scriptures are from God. They are clear. muhammed was a false prophet and the koran a false prophets work. If the muslim wants to go to heaven, then he needs to accept Christ as his Lord and Saviour. Thus he ceases to be muslim and is then a Christian.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

islam is not of God. They reject Jesus Christ. Therefore all muslims are going to hell.

Any spirit that admits that Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and so you are just fighting God with your pov, and condemning hearts that you are obviously in no position to judge into the bargain. This is just another way, of many, to make oneself into God.

The Scriptures are from God. They are clear. muhammed was a false prophet and the koran a false prophets work. If the muslim wants to go to heaven, then he needs to accept Christ as his Lord and Saviour. Thus he ceases to be muslim and is then a Christian.

sorry, but picking the right set of beliefs is not going to save one, Love believes all things, and it is the fruit that should be judged, and judging beliefs is not judging fruit; it is just that simple. Now go and manifest these Scriptures,

He who says he knows does not yet know as he ought,

and

A man who is physically uncircumcised, but who fulfills the law, will judge you who are a lawbreaker in spite of having the letter of the law and circumcision

to suit yourself, and say that Scripture is clear all you like, but we read that people "may see and not see," so there is a reason that we are cautioned to read the Book with the Spirit as our guide, and not a person, who might rush to assure you that they know.

 

[bbyrd009]

The parable of the Two Sons makes this abundantly clear; that regardless of what one says, if they then go and manifest Christ, and work in the vineyard, it is they who have done their father's will. The Second Son gets no credit until he shows up for work, in the vineyard, regardless of any prior declarations or intentions.

 

[bbyrd009]

Another way of putting it is that you can condemn Muslims spiritually all you like, but when someone asks you to witness any recent atrocities by the thousands of Muslims that surround you right now and you got nothing, then see what there is to see ok.

 

[Stranger]

Any spirit that admits that Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and so you are just fighting God with your pov, and condemning hearts that you are obviously in no position to judge into the bargain. This is just another way, of many, to make oneself into God.



sorry, but picking the right set of beliefs is not going to save one, Love believes all things, and it is the fruit that should be judged, and judging beliefs is not judging fruit; it is just that simple. Now go and manifest these Scriptures,

He who says he knows does not yet know as he ought,

and

A man who is physically uncircumcised, but who fulfills the law, will judge you who are a lawbreaker in spite of having the letter of the law and circumcision

to suit yourself, and say that Scripture is clear all you like, but we read that people "may see and not see," so there is a reason that we are cautioned to read the Book with the Spirit as our guide, and not a person, who might rush to assure you that they know.

The verse, (1 John 4:2) " Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:" assumes already the belief in Christ as The Son of God.

See (1 John 2:22-23) "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:..."

See also, (1 John 3:23) " And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ,..."

So you see that spirit that believes Jesus is come in the flesh, believes that Jesus is the Son of God. islam does not believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God. They believe He existed, but just that He existed is not what (1John 4:2) is saying. islam does not believe the truth about Jesus Christ.

Sorry too, but the right belief is exactly what is required to save anyone. The one who sees is the one who recognizes Jesus Christ as the Son of God. Makes islam a false belief. Makes islam blind to God.

The parable of "The Two Sons" doesn't apply to islam. Both in the parable are sons of the father. One is only a Son of God if he places faith in Jesus Christ as The Son of God.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

mmmkay well enjoy that while you can, you are being indulged here, God knows why, but the day is quickly approaching where that kind of speech will be limited to white supremacy sites, and other gatherings of bigots, where it belongs.

 

[Stranger]

Indeed, I'm indulged with your inability to support your faith in islam.

Please, cry me a river. I don't care. You cry, but have nothing to offer. And I have no mercy.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

yes, i need no forgiveness, and i have no mercy are going to be the epitaph of your generation, apparently.

 

[Stranger]

yes, i need no forgiveness, and i have no mercy are going to be the epitaph of your generation, apparently.

If you could defend what you say, you wouldn't have to attack me. Because you can't, then you must. It's an old alternative.

Again, I am not affected by your false sentiments.

Stranger