What are Your Feelings on Tithes

[marksman]

If the whole tithe isn't brought into the storehouse therefore, the latter day outpouring of the Holy Spirit may never occur...

Where does it say that in scripture?

 

[marksman]

I suggest that you give 100% of your next paycheck to the church then.

No where in the NT are we told to give our money to the church.

 

[justbyfaith]

At Bible College, I was taught OT by a converted Jew. If you want to know what that involves it means there was NOTHING that he did not know about the OT because he had knowledge of it as a Jew and as a Christian. He taught us that Jews were required to tithe 30% over the year, not 10%.

And actually, if you look at it even more closely, they were supposed to give their tithe only one out of every three years.

(Don't ask me where that is found; I only know that I read it in there at one time).

 

[justbyfaith]

Where does it say that in scripture?

It is implied in Malachi 3:10, if you interpret the windows of heaven being spoken of there as being the latter rain of the Holy Spirit.

 

[justbyfaith]

No where in the NT are we told to give our money to the church.

I beg to differ.

See 1 Corinthians 16, 2 Corinthians 8 and 9, Romans 15:26-27.

 

[marksman]

The word tithing is in Luke 11:42, and Luke 11:42 is in the New Testament.

Question: as New Testament Christians, should we pass over judgment and the love of God?

If your answer is yes, then I question your sanity.

If your answer is no, then I would ask, why then is the other thing (tithing) also not valid for New Testament Christians?

For if Jesus spoke one thing to the scribes and Pharisees, and it is valid for New Testament Christians, then the fact that the other thing was spoken to the scribes and Pharisees does not make it invalid for New Testament Christians.

OK, for the pedantic there is not one verse in the NT that has the word tithe in it that is relevant to the new believer.

Answer: No.

Because the passage was directed to the Pharisees, not to the Christian as you will see in my other entry.

It would be better if you stopped making the scripture fit your theology rather than make your theology fit the scripture. Whilst you keep doing that you will always be led up the garden path and you will never come to discern the truth in its fulness.

 

[marksman]

I beg to differ.

See 1 Corinthians 16, 2 Corinthians 8 and 9, Romans 15:26-27.

1 Corinthians 16:1
(CEV) When you collect money for God's people, I want you to do exactly what I told the churches in Galatia to do.
(KJV) Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
(KJV+) NowG1161 concerningG4012 theG3588 collectionG3048 forG1519 theG3588 saints,G40 asG5618 I have given orderG1299 to theG3588 churchesG1577 of Galatia,G1053 evenG2532 soG3779 doG4160 ye.G5210
(LITV) And about the collection for the saints, as I charged the assemblies of Galatia, so also you do.
(MKJV) And concerning the collection for the saints, as I charged the churches of Galatia, so also you do.
(YLT) And concerning the collection that is for the saints, as I directed to the assemblies of Galatia, so also ye—do ye;

The Greek word for saints/people is hagios. The word for church is ekklesia. Two different words meaning two different things. The collection here was for the people, not the church.

2 Co 8:4 with much entreating, begging us to receive of us the grace and the fellowship of the ministry to the saints. Note- saints not church.
2Co 8:19 and not only so, but also he having been chosen by the assemblies as a traveling companion to us with this gift being ministered by us to the glory of the Lord Himself, and your eagerness. A companion was chosen by the assemblies to travel with Paul and Titus who brought with him a monetary gift. For Paul and Titus, not the church.
2Co 9:1 For indeed concerning the ministry to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you. Ministry to the SAINTS, NOT THE CHURCH.
Rom 15:26 For Macedonia and Achaia thought it good to make certain gifts to the poor of the saints in Jerusalem. Gifts to the poor of the saints, not the church.

The word ecclesia is not in any of these verses so the church is not the focus of them.

 

[Candidus]

If these promises haven't worked for you, then I can only say that I think there must have been something wrong with your faith.

Your doctrinal lie fails, and you do what all cults do when someone does not accept their lie... you blame the person's faith!

Shame on you! I went into it convinced. I was faithful to the LAW, and trusted the false PROMISE. You cannot stand in judgment of what you do not know! You can only "assume" that since your faulty product was an utter failure, that the person using it is at fault if it did not work! I "tested it" as you challenged! It failed! The debate whether it is true or not is over!

Ephesians 1:3 says no more about being blessed by God if you tithe than it does about being blessed if you wear your underwear inside-out in Church! I have just as much New Testament proof that this is what Ephesians 1:3 says, as you do!

You are a False Teacher, telling Christians that God will bless them if they place themselves under the bondage of the Law!

 

[bbyrd009]

At Bible College, I was taught OT by a converted Jew. If you want to know what that involves it means there was NOTHING that he did not know about the OT because he had knowledge of it as a Jew and as a Christian. He taught us that Jews were required to tithe 30% over the year, not 10%.

demonstrating that wisdom is hidden from the wise wadr. "Required" being the telling word there
i mean who "required" him to do that?

 

[Candidus]

“God was tested. Either God failed...” I’m still stuck on are we to test God? Not sure if either have already been posted.
Luke 4:12 Lexicon: And Jesus answered and said to him, "It is said, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"

Matthew 4:7 Lexicon: Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"

the devil in temptation also tests.

How quickly you forget what you have just said!

God says, "Test me now in this."

I did so, and now you heap condemnation on me when the results arrive at having to say that God fails, or the false doctrine you espouse fails!

 

[Candidus]

The rule was that we are not supposed to test God; and Malachi 3 clearly has an exception to this rule.

Oh how the circular logic of a failed false doctrine convolutes into nonsense so quickly!

 

[Candidus]

It says in Luke 11:42 that we ought not to leave our tithing undone. Sorry but you have got that one wrong. He told the PHARISEES to not leave their tithing undone and not to forget to be kind to people which they were not.

Luk 11:42 You Pharisees are in for trouble! You give God a tenth of the spices from your gardens, such as mint and rue. But you cheat people, and you don't love God. You should be fair and kind to others and still give a tenth to God. (CEV)

But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. (KJV)

But woe to you, Pharisees, for you pay tithes of the mint, and the rue, and every plant, and pass by the judgment and the love of God. It was right to do these things, but not to leave aside those. (LITERAL)

But woe to you, Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and every herb, and pass over judgment and the love of God. You ought to have done these, and not to leave the other undone. (MKJV)

But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by justice and mercy and the love of God. These you ought to have done without leaving the others undone. (NKJB)

'But woe to you, the Pharisees, because ye tithe the mint, and the rue, and every herb, and ye pass by the judgment, and the love of God; these things it behoveth to do, and those not to be neglecting. (YLT)

Seven versions of the same verse and they all say the same thing. it is addressed to the Pharisees under OT law because Jesus did not want then to stop tithing of their substance but to ADD justice and mercy.

Now if that is not conclusive I don't know what is. To say that this applies to the NTC is drawing the longest bow possible and it is obvious the person is trying to make scripture fit into his theology rather than make their theology fit into scripture.

The word tithing is NOT in the New Testament. End of story.

Are you SURE that the bible says that Jesus directed this to the Pharisees?
I wonder if the power of assumption and blind dogmatism carries more weight than Scripture for some people!

 

[bbyrd009]

“God was tested. Either God failed...” I’m still stuck on are we to test God? Not sure if either have already been posted.
Luke 4:12 Lexicon: And Jesus answered and said to him, "It is said, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"

Matthew 4:7 Lexicon: Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"

the devil in temptation also tests.

you might note that one test is ego-building and the other is ego-destroying though, at least done right?

 

[bbyrd009]

Are you SURE that the bible says that Jesus directed this to the Pharisees?
I wonder if the power of assumption and blind dogmatism carries more weight than Scripture for some people!

who might "pharisees" be representing there i wonder

 

[Candidus]

It is implied in Malachi 3:10, if you interpret the windows of heaven being spoken of there as being the latter rain of the Holy Spirit.

That's not an "interpretation"... that is pure fictional nonsense!

 

[Candidus]

 

[Candidus]

THE GRAND LIE!

Propagated by preachers that have no faith that their congregation can be trusted to follow God's New Testament directions on how to support the Church!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

How quickly you forget what you have just said!



I did so, and now you heap condemnation on me when the results arrive at having to say that God fails, or the false doctrine you espouse fails!

Then I said it wrong because it wasn’t meant as condemnation but I was agreeing with you. I never thought you said God failed but instead (unless I misunderstood) you were saying the opposite in we assume there God promises financial security? Your post reminded me of the temptation of the devil in the wilderness when the devil tempted Him to turn stones into bread. And how the cornerstone said “I am the bread” and “you are living stones” ...something the devil didn’t see coming in his temptation. Another would be when they tested Jesus before the crucifix saying if you are chosen of God then save yourself.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

That's not an "interpretation"... that is pure fictional nonsense!

How so?

 

[Candidus]

The passage deals with Jews, under the Law, who were neglecting a REQUIREMENT to give to support the Levites. The Levites were going hungry because people stopped paying their taxes (Tithe). God caused a drought to punish them, and demanded that ALL the Tithe be brought in! If they did so, He would open up the windows of heaven and bless them. The "windows of heaven" merely means... RAIN! It is not a prophecy that connects that "Latter Rain" to Tithing in the New Testament. Such a theological connection you will not find in the Church for almost the first 2000 years.