What are Your Feelings on Tithes

[Waiting on him]

Numbers 18:26 KJV
Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the Lord, even a tenth part of the tithe.

This is interesting that the Levites were to give a tenth of a tenth?

 

[Waiting on him]

So, we being a royal priesthood, should now offer to the poor, fatherless, husbandless, the increase which is Christ with all the spiritual blessings that are given.

 

[justbyfaith]

1 Corinthians 16:1
(CEV) When you collect money for God's people, I want you to do exactly what I told the churches in Galatia to do.
(KJV) Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
(KJV+) NowG1161 concerningG4012 theG3588 collectionG3048 forG1519 theG3588 saints,G40 asG5618 I have given orderG1299 to theG3588 churchesG1577 of Galatia,G1053 evenG2532 soG3779 doG4160 ye.G5210
(LITV) And about the collection for the saints, as I charged the assemblies of Galatia, so also you do.
(MKJV) And concerning the collection for the saints, as I charged the churches of Galatia, so also you do.
(YLT) And concerning the collection that is for the saints, as I directed to the assemblies of Galatia, so also ye—do ye;

The Greek word for saints/people is hagios. The word for church is ekklesia. Two different words meaning two different things. The collection here was for the people, not the church.

2 Co 8:4 with much entreating, begging us to receive of us the grace and the fellowship of the ministry to the saints. Note- saints not church.
2Co 8:19 and not only so, but also he having been chosen by the assemblies as a traveling companion to us with this gift being ministered by us to the glory of the Lord Himself, and your eagerness. A companion was chosen by the assemblies to travel with Paul and Titus who brought with him a monetary gift. For Paul and Titus, not the church.
2Co 9:1 For indeed concerning the ministry to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you. Ministry to the SAINTS, NOT THE CHURCH.
Rom 15:26 For Macedonia and Achaia thought it good to make certain gifts to the poor of the saints in Jerusalem. Gifts to the poor of the saints, not the church.

The word ecclesia is not in any of these verses so the church is not the focus of them.

That is a very weak argument, to say that the saints are not the church. The church consists of the saints. I believe that you are therefore grasping at straws.

Your doctrinal lie fails, and you do what all cults do when someone does not accept their lie... you blame the person's faith!

Shame on you! I went into it convinced. I was faithful to the LAW, and trusted the false PROMISE. You cannot stand in judgment of what you do not know! You can only "assume" that since your faulty product was an utter failure, that the person using it is at fault if it did not work! I "tested it" as you challenged! It failed! The debate whether it is true or not is over!

Ephesians 1:3 says no more about being blessed by God if you tithe than it does about being blessed if you wear your underwear inside-out in Church! I have just as much New Testament proof that this is what Ephesians 1:3 says, as you do!

You are a False Teacher, telling Christians that God will bless them if they place themselves under the bondage of the Law!

Then Malachi was a false teacher for telling God's people the very same thing (for it was not the law that he was bringing them under, but rather he was showing them a promise).

The fact that you do not believe in the sufficiency of the Lord and His ability to keep His promises is really a crying shame. I don't know why He didn't come through for you; all I know is that the Lord is faithful and will keep His promises; and that He has in fact promised to pour out a blessing that you will not be able to receive it, it is so great; if you would but bring in the whole tithe into the storehouse.

Maybe He didn't bless you because you didn't give 23%. .

Oh how the circular logic of a failed false doctrine convolutes into nonsense so quickly!

That's not an "interpretation"... that is pure fictional nonsense!

1 Corinthians 1:18.

Jesus set our example for us in 2 Corinthians 8:9.

So, as we look at Malachi 3:8-10... you are failing to bring in all the Tithe unless you are giving 23%!!!! You 'Tithers' out there need to stop robbing God and get with the program!

The word tithe has a definition: 1/10 (see also Genesis 28:20-22). But it brings up an interesting point as to why your faith failed when you only tithed the 1/10 that God required of you. Because God looks at our whole life and the doctrine of our whole life when judging us. So He may have been taking into account, then, what you are saying today on the issue.

So I suppose that if you begin to again tithe; and also bring in 23% rather than the normally interpreted 1/10, the Lord will see you as actually fulfilling the condition of the promise as far as your faith is concerned.

It is definitely true that when it does not seem to man that God is faithful, that the fault does not lie in God but in the man who is accusing the Lord.

Because I know that the Lord has been faithful to me over my tithing. I may not be extremely wealthy; but I have never lacked any food, shelter, or clothing. Philippians 4:19 has always been fulfilled in my life.

Also, if you were tithing because you wanted God to make you rich because of it, then you had the wrong motives in tithing; and God is not going to honour that.

If you have been provided for all your life and have never been without shelter, food, or clothing, then God has fulfilled His promise.

But I know that, even though the Lord has not made me extremely wealthy financially because of my tithe, that He has in fact opened the windows of heaven for me in that I always feel the presence of the Holy Spirit. And if that be the only benefit that one can get from tithing, it is extremely worth it.

 

[farouk]

Numbers 18:26 KJV
Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the Lord, even a tenth part of the tithe.

This is interesting that the Levites were to give a tenth of a tenth?

I do believe in generous giving; it's interesting that Hebrews 7 makes it clear that the Levitical system has been done away with.

 

[Giuliano]

I do believe in generous giving; it's interesting that Hebrews 7 makes it clear that the Levitical system has been done away with.

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

 

[justbyfaith]

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

This scripture is definitely a guideline.

I will say that there is a promise associated with giving specifically 1/10 of your income; a promise of a blessing (again, Malachi 3).

Of course, returns are promised on any amount that you might give (see Luke 6:38); but know that if you sow sparingly you will reap sparingly and if you sow bountifully you will reap also bountifully (2 Corinthians 9:6). See also Ecclesiastes 11:6. And we can also apply Luke 8:11 to 2 Corinthians 9:6 for a slightly different message.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

This scripture is definitely a guideline.

I will say that there is a promise associated with giving specifically 1/10 of your income; a promise of a blessing (again, Malachi 3).

Of course, returns are promised on any amount that you might give (see Luke 6:38); but know that if you sow sparingly you will reap sparingly and if you sow bountifully you will reap also bountifully (2 Corinthians 9:6). See also Ecclesiastes 11:6. And we can also apply Luke 8:11 to 2 Corinthians 9:6 for a slightly different message.

2 Corinthians is not about tithing it is request to help the poor Christians in Jerusalem.

Tithing to your church is actually giving to someone who makes their living off of you. A real good living in most cases. That is not what we should be doing.
1. Give enough to pay the expense of the building called the church.
2. Let the pastor take an outside job, like the rest of the members, so that they can pay their share also. Pastoring is not a job it is a privilege God has given.
3. Let us not forget the poor Christians, even in our church. Many new members will need help.
4. If one comes, who is a evangelist, take them home to feed and let a collection be taken to help in his traveling.
5. Pastor is not mentioned in the New Testament.

 

[marksman]

That is a very weak argument, to say that the saints are not the church. The church consists of the saints. I believe that you are therefore grasping at straws.

That is a very weak argument, to say that the saints are not the church. The church consists of the saints. I believe that you are therefore grasping at straws.

I will address the part that is specific to me.

It is not an argument to say what the scripture says. It is a fact. In my studies of all sorts of things, I rarely ignore what the original Greek says for the simple reason it is a known fact that it has often been translated incorrectly into English. One thing I have learned over many years is that if there are two different Greek words with different meanings that means the two are not the same. This is a classic example where the Greek word for the church is different from the Greek word for the saints.

The fact that there are two Greek words that are not the same means that in the English the two are not the same, no matter what spin you want to put on it. If you cannot accept that fact, that is your problem not mine. You will learn nothing at all if you cannot cope with challenges to your theology.

Over the last 10 years in particular I have been challenged on my theology numerous times. I had two choices. One was to batten down and repel all boarders or the preferred option and that was to investigate in case I was wrong. I am glad I did that because in some cases I was WRONG. The end result is that I know a lot more about the truth now than I did in days gone by and for an autistic person the truth is sacrosanct.

And telling me that I am clutching at straws does nothing for your argument. As I am autistic, I NEVER clutch at straws. If I am not totally convinced of my understanding I say nothing so I have no need of straws.

 

[marksman]

It is implied in Malachi 3:10, if you interpret the windows of heaven being spoken of there as being the latter rain of the Holy Spirit.

Who is Malachi written to?

 

[marksman]

2 Corinthians is not about tithing it is request to help the poor Christians in Jerusalem.

Tithing to your church is actually giving to someone who makes their living off of you. A real good living in most cases. That is not what we should be doing.
1. Give enough to pay the expense of the building called the church.
2. Let the pastor take an outside job, like the rest of the members, so that they can pay their share also. Pastoring is not a job it is a privilege God has given.
3. Let us not forget the poor Christians, even in our church. Many new members will need help.
4. If one comes, who is a evangelist, take them home to feed and let a collection be taken to help in his traveling.
5. Pastor is not mentioned in the New Testament.

I would like to emphasise one thing that Rock Wiley said in particular and it is this.....Pastor is not mentioned in the New Testament.

 

[marksman]

it's like trying to nail Jell-O to the wall.

Love your sense of humour.

 

[marksman]

Are you SURE that the bible says that Jesus directed this to the Pharisees?
I wonder if the power of assumption and blind dogmatism carries more weight than Scripture for some people!

I don't have to be sure as the word is there in every text.

 

[marksman]

demonstrating that wisdom is hidden from the wise wadr. "Required" being the telling word there
i mean who "required" him to do that?

The Levitical law.

 

[Giuliano]

2 Corinthians is not about tithing it is request to help the poor Christians in Jerusalem.

Tithing to your church is actually giving to someone who makes their living off of you. A real good living in most cases. That is not what we should be doing.
1. Give enough to pay the expense of the building called the church.
2. Let the pastor take an outside job, like the rest of the members, so that they can pay their share also. Pastoring is not a job it is a privilege God has given.
3. Let us not forget the poor Christians, even in our church. Many new members will need help.
4. If one comes, who is a evangelist, take them home to feed and let a collection be taken to help in his traveling.
5. Pastor is not mentioned in the New Testament.

I agree. Of course, it's not about tithing. Tithing is Old Testament material, and it was required under their system. Paul is teaching something different. It's not about tithing at all.

If you really look into it, we see that tithing in the Old Testament started when Israel entered the Promised Land and not before. The tithes were not on earned income but on the increase of livestock and agriculture in the fertile land God had given Israel. Thus the tithe never applied to Gentiles or even to Israel who live outside the Promised Land. Of course, people are still free to do good when they feel like it; and helping the poor sounds good to me. Making the clergy rich makes religion into a business or even a racket.

 

[bbyrd009]

The Levitical law.

yes, exactly. Not Yah iow

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus set our example for us in 2 Corinthians 8:9.

if only most pastors would follow that eh

Because God looks at our whole life and the doctrine of our whole life when judging us.

Yah is not our judge tho, jbf, that is ot stuff yeh

If you have been provided for all your life and have never been without shelter, food, or clothing, then God has fulfilled His promise.

man, is that going to be a fail or what i mean so the minute you perceive lack in one of those areas Yah has failed? I suggest emptying your pockets and walking out your front door like our High Priest directed us to do would change ones perspective there forever fwiw. You dont need any of that stuff

"like" on the rest btw

I will say that there is a promise associated with giving specifically 1/10 of your income; a promise of a blessing (again, Malachi 3).

yet you will not address that that was specifically meant as donating into a storehouse for the poor to be taken care of, not to employ cult of sol preachers and maintain their corporations

 

[bbyrd009]

2 Corinthians is not about tithing it is request to help the poor Christians in Jerusalem.

Tithing to your church is actually giving to someone who makes their living off of you. A real good living in most cases. That is not what we should be doing.
1. Give enough to pay the expense of the building called the church.
2. Let the pastor take an outside job, like the rest of the members, so that they can pay their share also. Pastoring is not a job it is a privilege God has given.
3. Let us not forget the poor Christians, even in our church. Many new members will need help.
4. If one comes, who is a evangelist, take them home to feed and let a collection be taken to help in his traveling.
5. Pastor is not mentioned in the New Testament.

and no matter how many times you repeat it, you will not get any engagement, huh
see we think we are engaged in conversations with professors, but they are strickly here for another opportunity to dictate and offer edicts that we are supposed to say "ty" and kiss a ring somewhere, more or less

not so sure about #1 myself, strikes me as a bad idea, but i wouldnt condemn ppl for it i guess
but now they have something, right, they dont having nothing iow

 

[bbyrd009]

This is a classic example where the Greek word for the church is different from the Greek word for the saints

where is that marksman? ty

 

[justbyfaith]

2. Let the pastor take an outside job, like the rest of the members, so that they can pay their share also. Pastoring is not a job it is a privilege God has given.

I can hardly believe that you are contending for this. We are not to muzzle the ox that treadeth out the grain, and, the labourer is worthy of his reward, should speak volumes.

This kind of statement ("let the pastor take an outside job") can only be made by someone who is biblically illiterate. For in 1 Corinthians 9, specifically, approximately eighteen verses are devoted to this subject; and the conclusion is that those who preach the gospel should earn their living from the gospel.

You should also notice what it says in Acts of the Apostles 6:1-4.

5. Pastor is not mentioned in the New Testament.

I would like to emphasise one thing that Rock Wiley said in particular and it is this.....Pastor is not mentioned in the New Testament.

The office of pastor is indeed mentioned in the NT....in Ephesians 4:11.

The fact that there are two Greek words that are not the same means that in the English the two are not the same,

Words can be synonyms of each other, whether the language is Greek or English. An example in English, the words "dog" and "hound" Now "hound" can mean something distinctly different as a verb; but as a noun it is a synonym of "dog".

So the word for "saints" and "church" while they can mean something distinctly different, they are also synonyms of each other. Therefore they mean the same thing. And therefore, when you say that the saints are not the church, that is a weak argument and you are grasping at straws. Because the church is composed of the saints; and therefore the terms are practically synonymous.

And telling me that I am clutching at straws does nothing for your argument. As I am autistic, I NEVER clutch at straws.

You can still be grasping at straws even though you are autistic; because that is what you did.

 

[justbyfaith]

Who is Malachi written to?

See 2 Timothy 3:16.