What argument do you personally use to justify the existence of God?

[Stranger]

Frosty

Why do you mix your words with mine?

Again, God does good no matter what it is He does. I did answer your questions. You just don't like the answer. You come to God by faith. If you don't have it, you don't have it. You will never be argued into belief by some 'proof'.

If you don't separate my words from your's I won't reply back.

Stranger

 

[frost2021]

Apologies, I thought it would be an easier way to read the back and forth.

You really haven't answered my question though. You say everything God does is good. I argue the bible clearly defines what is good and evil and according to the bibles standards, God has done evil. Your response again is simply everything God does is good. That's akin to a parent responding to a child "because I said so" instead of actually addressing the topic.

I'm asking for logical arguments for faith and all you're giving me is " faith is something either you have or don't have and you won't believe unless you have faith" that argument is not substantial enough in the slightest.

That's like someone asking why the grass is green and you telling them because it is to some people and if you don't have the ability to see green it won't be green for you. Such a reply doesn't answer the question. An actual answer would be that grass contains a pigment called chlorophyll that absorbs many waves of light energy however, light in the green spectrum is reflected leading our eyes to see green.

I hope you understand I'm not attempting to be disrespectful in the slightest. However, if you are going to discuss with me, I need actual answers and not circular reasoning.

 

[Born_Again]

Apologies, I thought it would be an easier way to read the back and forth.

You really haven't answered my question though. You say everything God does is good. I argue the bible clearly defines what is good and evil and according to the bibles standards, God has done evil. Your response again is simply everything God does is good. That's akin to a parent responding to a child "because I said so" instead of actually addressing the topic.

I'm asking for logical arguments for faith and all you're giving me is " faith is something either you have or don't have and you won't believe unless you have faith" that argument is not substantial enough in the slightest.

That's like someone asking why the grass is green and you telling them because it is to some people and if you don't have the ability to see green it won't be green for you. Such a reply doesn't answer the question. An actual answer would be that grass contains a pigment called chlorophyll that absorbs many waves of light energy however, light in the green spectrum is reflected leading our eyes to see green.

I hope you understand I'm not attempting to be disrespectful in the slightest. However, if you are going to discuss with me, I need actual answers and not circular reasoning.

I understand what you are saying. From your approach its this simple. To the professor, you cant prove God exists. On the other hand, he cant prove God doesn't exist. That why all there is is faith. God has to be experienced. I also feel we are not trying to prove to your professor Gods existence, it seems more like you want us to prove it to you.... You've been given may options on here, brother.

 

[Stranger]

Apologies, I thought it would be an easier way to read the back and forth.

You really haven't answered my question though. You say everything God does is good. I argue the bible clearly defines what is good and evil and according to the bibles standards, God has done evil. Your response again is simply everything God does is good. That's akin to a parent responding to a child "because I said so" instead of actually addressing the topic.

I'm asking for logical arguments for faith and all you're giving me is " faith is something either you have or don't have and you won't believe unless you have faith" that argument is not substantial enough in the slightest.

That's like someone asking why the grass is green and you telling them because it is to some people and if you don't have the ability to see green it won't be green for you. Such a reply doesn't answer the question. An actual answer would be that grass contains a pigment called chlorophyll that absorbs many waves of light energy however, light in the green spectrum is reflected leading our eyes to see green.

I hope you understand I'm not attempting to be disrespectful in the slightest. However, if you are going to discuss with me, I need actual answers and not circular reasoning.

Again, I gave you actual answers. You just don't want to receive them.

I tell you God does the good. You tell me, no, God does evil.

You have given me nothing to prove God is evil. Your argument is circular. You say God is evil, so God can't be God. You say Scriptures say God is evil. But they don't. They say God is good.

Stranger

 

[Josho]

My many personal experiences of miracles, witnessing others laying hands on others and people getting instantly healed, hearing many testimonies from my parents, listening to other testimonies, reading testimonies, even watching miracles that have been recorded, personal strange experiences with the Holy Spirit, I've seen and experienced a lot, so Jesus the one true God definitely does exist.

 

[mjrhealth]

I guess you could just ask them " why they are here, what is the purpose of there existence, and what would be the point of it all if we just died.

 

[junobet]

The people who agree that child torture is wrong and immoral, are not from a society that participates in such activity. This again is only confirming that their world view is a product of their societal upbringing.

There are many countries in Africa and South America where there are basically gruesome forms of torture imposed on youth veiled as a right of passage. I've watched on the National Geographic channel young men in Africa get pierced, whipped, and beaten in the name of coming into manhood. To their society this is not child torture, this is a ritualistic ceremony celebrating the coming into adult hood. This view is based on their upbringing. People in the west would consider such acts as purely barbaric due to their upbringing. Does this make the acts necessarily wrong? That depends on your world view which was created over time by the people and places you interacted with.

You are right. I explained myself badly: I meant torturing children in the fully blown sadistic killing way. Of course human beings are capable of that, too. But most people will see it as deeply wrong. The problem that arises from the view that our morals are simply the product of your socialization which is in turn a product of animalistic survival needs, is that social Darwinism and ensuing dystopia would be the logical conclusion. But most atheists I know aren’t into that. In fact they are very moral people and don’t like to be told that we can’t speak of right or wrong, better or worse without assuming that there is ultimate Good.

 

[junobet]

The most recent argument that I'm having difficulty with is the problem of evil. In the Christian bible and in fact in many different religions, God is described as being all powerful, all knowing, and all good.

If God exists according to this concept of him how can evil exist?
If God is both all good and all knowing, why would he have let evil into the world? If he knew evil would come about, yet let it happen regardless, he must therefore not be all good. This would be a contradiction to our concept of God, and such a God could not exist.

An all knowing God would not have allowed Eve to eat the forbidden fruit if he knew in advance she would and thus release evil into the world. That's like a professor administering a test to his students even though he knows that they will all fail. The point of a test is to test someone's knowledge. If one already knows the results to a test why administer it? Is that just and good?

If God is all powerful, and all good, why hasn't he stopped the plague of evil? If someone goes into a gun store and demands a gun saying that he intends to kill people with it and the owner sells it to him regardless, is he not liable if the man actually kills someone? Is turning a blind eye to evil not in itself evil? Why would a just and all powerful God allow such evil to exist if he is supposedly all good?

These are the basic arguments that I'm finding hard to argue against.

The question of evil is indeed the toughest one. Personally I have no answer for it other than that I hope that in the end all will be good. And even that can easily sound as if it was belittling suffering. So all we’re really left with when confronted with suffering is to “weep with those who weep” (Romans 12:15).

But maybe you’ll find some of the answers given here helpful. It’s a summary of various Christian views on the question of evil ranging from Augustine to Moltmann:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIrFCmUkQ4w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5wYOZSh4GU

 

[Dcopymope]

If you're going to argue with a professor of philosophy, you're going to need more than just a personal justification because that wont stand with them. You need to dive into apologetics. I know this from helping a friend who was in the same situation you are. Check out the guys I mentioned.

My personal justification is based on my own experiences and my testimony. Its what He has shown and done for that causes me to believe.

Why call it "apologetics"? Am I "apologizing" for my faith as if my belief is in error? I don't like the term itself at all when referring to the defense of the faith.

 

[Angelina]

To justify the existance of God one must not look far from the source of our belief which is found in the bible. You cannot rightly discuss the existance of God without researching stories of the very people whom God touched throughout the ages. The inference of not investigating this avenue, would mean a discussion without proper representation of all known available sources.

A good place to begin is found in 1 Corinthians 15 in relation to the message of the cross.
12 Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; 14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.

Paul is explaining here about the death and resurrection of Christ. His main emphasis is about the possibility of Christ not being raised from the dead. Paul speaks from the eyewitness accounts of his fellow Apostles, he himself having an encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus. Jesus said to him ~ Acts 26: I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me."

Paul reiterates the fact that Christ has risen from the dead by stating in 1 Cor 15:
30 Why are we also in danger every hour? 31 I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32 If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus, what does it profit me? If the dead are not raised, let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.

In conclusion believing in the existence of God is faith based. Christ's redeeming work on the cross, his death and resurrection, the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit and hope of eternal life is also based on faith in Jesus Christ, the son of God and our redeemer.

Human reasoning cannot determine the existence of God...Josh has pointed out the experiences he has had with God and that is why I personally believe he is real and he exists...because he has made himself real to me many, many times through divine encounters and miracles.

Bless you!

 

[katabole]

Why call it "apologetics"? Am I "apologizing" for my faith as if my belief is in error? I don't like the term itself at all when referring to the defense of the faith.

We are all given different gifts according to 1 Corinthians 12. Some people have only one gift. Some people have multiple gifts. There are those who do mission work. There are those that run charities to help the poor and needy. There are those who interpret languages. There are those who preach. And there are those who give rational explanations of why we as Christians believe what we believe. All these different gifts go towards edifying the Body of Christ as a whole. You may be great at mission work and be a terrible apologist. Likewise, you may be a great apologist and be terrible at mission work. And there are some that are good at both. Those are the gifts God has given us.

The English word "apologetics" comes from 1 Peter 3:15:

3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Strongs #627


627


apologia
ap-ol-og-ee'-ah


from the same as apologeomai - apologeomai 626; a plea ("apology"):--answer (for self), clearing of self, defence.


In other words, it is a rational explanation.

So if someone comes up to you searching for spiritual truth and asks you why you believe in God, specifically Jesus Christ, you can give them a rational explanation, a defense of your faith an "apologetic", as to why you believe what you do. That's what Peter is saying.

I have a number of arguments I have maintained over the years why I believe that Jesus Christ is God and why Christianity is the only true belief system:


God is the best explanation why anything exists rather than nothing.

God is the best explanation for the possibility of God's existence.

God is the best explanation for the origin of the universe.

God is the best explanation for the fine tuning of the universe in order for intelligent life to exist.

God is the best explanation for a universe with laws.

God is the best explanation for a universe that is rationally intelligible or comprehensible.

God is the best explanation for an objective moral reality within humanity.

God is the best explanation for existential choice or freedom to choose.

God is the best explanation for the emotion called love.

God is the best explanation for humans asking questions of ultimate purpose.

God is the best explanation for humans asking questions of ultimate justice.

God is the best explanation for the problem of evil.

God is the best explanation of the applicability of mathematics to the physical world.

God is the best explanation for the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.


I would probably read some of Dr. William Lane Craig's work or Professor John Lennox or Ravi Zacharias, if you want to know more about apologetics or rational explanations for our faith.


Frankly, (going back to the OP), I think the best argument, would be the last one: the historical argument for Jesus Christ.

I have to agree with Angelina, that we need not move far from the source, which is is the Bible. It tells us who Jesus is, what Jesus did and what Jesus said. And all arguments for God's existence go from that foundational point of history.