Just goes to show after Pentecost how essential the indwelling of the Holy Spirit has been.
What Changed?
- Thread starter Nancy
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Amen. We Christians seem to take Him for granted all the time
... NOT speaking of all Christians but, some, some of the time do take His blessings for granted.And yes, "To him goes the glory" Amen!
Yes, he sure did...I see John as Jesus's best friend, ha...after all, John was the "one that Jesus loved". He was loyal to the bitter end.
It's spiritually healthy to keep 'looking unto Jesus' (Hebrews 12.2).Amen. We Christians seem to take Him for granted all the time
And yes, "To him goes the glory" Amen!
It could be said that for John, his experience was: 'the things of earth will grow strangely dim / In the light of His glory and grace'.
To die well while on a torture device would no doubt be a rare thing to witness. Perhaps this thief was amazed at Jesus' demeanor during the hours of suffering and realized this was no ordinary criminal.Neither have I Pearl, it was mentioned during Sunday services (online) and, I never remembered that part! We're doing a series on the attributes of God and I'm really loving it. Wanted to ask him about it but...too big a Church
xo
What?
Did you never read Foxes Book of Martyrs (well known),
nor see Corrie ten Booms Testimony of millions slaughtered for their faith in our lifetimes/ our parents life times ?
"Tortured for Christ", Nora Lam "China Cry", testimonies from all over the world 'recently' !
Stan B
Well-Known Member
And John was the only disciple who was not executed. According to Jerome's history of the saints, John lived to be 120 years of age.
Nancy, you may want to double check your OP...
Are Robbers and Criminals the same thing?
Or...
Could they be completely different people altogether?
Thinkaboudit.
Are Robbers and Criminals the same thing?
Or...
Could they be completely different people altogether?
Thinkaboudit.
Can't tell me Jesus didn't have favorites, ha! I even hear parents say to me that they agree they also have a fave or are closer to, one child over another. I have 3 dogs..I love them all and take care of them just the same bit yet, there is that one....
Um, yes, what does this have to do with the topic? We aren't talking about Christian persecution here.
Although, due to the lack of evidence, I question entirely your predication that the malefactor was astute theologically, but rather, possibly astute spiritually. That is, like you pointed out, there was enough evidence within the immediate context of the crucifixion, that anyone with a predisposition to wisdom, might have recognized the injustice of the charge. For example, the vehemence of the mob in contrast to Christ's grace and dignity, ...and the other points that you mentioned. For even Pilate perceived the deception on the Jews part, and the Roman soldier at the cross concluded that Christ was the Messiah.
I may hypothesis that the two criminals were present at Christ's trial, as they awaited their previously sentenced fate. And thus, witnessed the farcical and ungrounded charges at the proceedings? Assuming that during a crucifixion, all those condemned are gathered together at a certain point, somewhere between the judgement courts and the place of crucifixion. Again, mere speculation, because it may not really explain the sudden turn-around from the mocking to the praising from the thieves, when both dispositions took place while exclusively on the cross?
Either way Enoch111, your brought up some very perceptive points, and I personally think that they are the most viable of what I've read so far on the thread.
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Yes. And that is a lesson all it's own. We like to say we love the Lord. But who was it that went back to be with Christ at the Cross? The one who knew Jesus loved him.
Stranger
May I present to this discussion that 'no', they are not interchangeable. It's a bold idea for sure.
I'm waiting to see if anyone else knows where I'm going with this and if they have any input.
If not, I will post more details when I have some free time.
Did you say it would be a rare thing to witness or not?
If so, then why would it be rare ? Only because someone was not observant of things the last 2000 years or more..... of frequent martyrdom, of millions perhaps, of Ekklesia, dying faithful and true - no fear, no doubt, their faces even sometimes radiant, like Stephans, in Acts.... their hope and joy and all their care having been previously placed in the Father's Hands - His Plan, His Purpose, His DELIGHT IN THEM! (His Choice)
I originally heard that there were actually 4 malefactors at the crucifixion, besides Christ. I do believe that there are paintings depicting this also.
Therefore, I assume that you are hypothesizing that there were two robbers, plus two other law-breakers, that were crucified with Christ, totaling 4 criminals. And that, the thieves and 1 criminal mocked Jesus, while one of the other non-thief, believed in him?
It could be argued, because the Gospels do differentiate as far as denoting the crimes are concerned, ...and of course, the contradictory remarks.
Not sure where I stand definitively on this, probably more so to a total of just 2 malefactors?
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