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What constitutes penance!

Discussion in 'The Church Forum' started by theefaith, Mar 13, 2022.

  1. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    Matt 3:2 do penance!
     
  2. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    What constitutes penzance!
    I thought it was a rocky outcrop where pirates hang out!
     
  3. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    Penance

    prayer
    Alms
    Fasting

    1 Peter 4:8
    And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins
     
  4. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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  5. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    We don't have to do penance for our sins because Jesus did it all when He suffered and died on the Cross. When Jesus took the guilt and penalty for our sin, it was cancelled, so we don't have to do penance for cancelled sin.
     
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  6. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    why are you ridiculing Christ?
     
  7. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    explain

    Colossians 1:24
    Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

    Matthew 10:38
    And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

    Matthew 16:24
    Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

    Matthew 16:25
    For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

    John 12:24
    Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

    25
    He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

    Romans 5:3
    And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

    Romans 5:4
    And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

    Romans 8:17
    And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    2 Corinthians 12:9
    And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

    2 Thessalonians 1:5
    Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

    Colossians 1:11
    Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

    2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

    2 Timothy 2:12
    If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

    Phil 1:29
    For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

    James 1:2-8
    My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

    Hebrews 6:12
    That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

    Hebrews 10:36
    For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

    Hebrews 12:4
    Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

    1 Peter 2:20
    For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

    Romans 8:17
    And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    2 Timothy 2:12
    If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
     
  8. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    All I see is a collection of random verses out of their normal context. Proves nothing.
     
  9. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    All I am doing is reflecting what the Bible actually says about the finished work of Christ on the Cross.
     
  10. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    all scripture is inspired but don’t say nothing about context!

    Matthew 24:35
    Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

    2 Timothy 3:16
    All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice,

    1 Tim 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

    Matt 18:17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

    Lk 1:4 That thou mayest know the verity of those words in which thou hast been instructed.

    Matt 28:19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

    Jn 20:21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you.


    To submit to the ministers of Christ is to submit to Christ!

    To submit to the teaching authority of the church is to submit to Christ!

    To reject the church or her teaching is to reject Christ who founded the church and revealed her doctrine!


    Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

    Even His judging!
    Matt 19:28
    His teaching authority!
    Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
    His power to forgive sins!
    Jn 20:23
    His being the light of the world!
    Matt 5:14
    His ministry of reconciliation!
    2 cor 5:18
    His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
    Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
    Lk 22:29
    Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
    So the church is subject to Christ!
    Eph 5:24

    Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
    Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

    Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

    1 Corinthians 16:22
    If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

    Extends to the truth and the church

    Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

    Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

    Authority of the Apostles!

    What authority does Christ have?
    What power does Christ have?
    What mission / ministry does Christ have?

    Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

    John 17:18
    As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

    The apostles are Christ’s successors!
    They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

    Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
    Apostolic succession!

    The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

    Hebrews 3:1
    Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

    Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

    Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

    Moral authority:
    (Teaching)
    Necessity of being taught by Christ:
    Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

    Jurisdictional authority:
    (Governing / administering)
    Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

    Spiritual authority:
    (Life of Grace)
    Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

    The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

    Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

    Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
    Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
     
  11. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    Where does it say that?
     
  12. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    Just because you have gone through the concordance and quoted all these verses doesn't prove anything at all. None of the verses actually link the teaching of Jesus Christ to the Roman Catholic Church. Just a quick reading of church history clearly shows that there is no line of Apostolic succession at all. One pope poisoned another, another appointed himself pope while the other was still in Rome. Even in recent years, John Paul I was poisoned because he wanted to bring reforms into the church, and Pope Benedict who also intended radical reforms into church finances, was told to resign or suffer the same fate! Obviously, "Apostolic Succession" is manipulated by whoever was and is in power, making it a load of absolute material that comes out of the backside of a horse! Peter was never a bishop of Rome, so the "Chair of Peter" is a fraud because there is no such thing, there is probably more of grace in the chair I'm currently sitting on! How about coming up with a few verses that prove that Mary is seated with Christ at the right hand of God, so i can have some more stuff to laugh at?
     
  13. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    Use a feather duster to get the dust off your copy of the Bible and read it for yourself.
     
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  14. amigo de christo

    amigo de christo Well-Known Member

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    That place is dangerous . Let no man , woman or child enter into any convenant with her or her daughters .
    Just learn that bible well my friend . Let us be hearers and doers of all things JESUS said and taught
    and later the apostels would teach in their letters to the churches .
     
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  15. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    No. It's our local public male toilet where they all hang out!
     
  16. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 3:2 deals with repentance, which involves ceasing to disobey the Ten Commandments. It is what we stop doing that is displeasing to God, rather than doing anything to try and show God that we are sorry for our sins.

    Penance is merely an invention of the Roman Catholic Church, and means absolutely nothing to God and therefore it is just a useless activity.
     
  17. amigo de christo

    amigo de christo Well-Known Member

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    Yes indeed . Let all be in those bibles and learning for ourselves .
     
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  18. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Correct. Penance is not the same as repentance.

    'Penance is a sacrament of the New Law instituted by Christ in which forgiveness of sins committed after baptism is granted through the priest's absolution to those who with true sorrow confess their sins and promise to satisfy for the same. It is called a "sacrament" not simply a function or ceremony, because it is an outward sign instituted by Christ to impart grace to the soul. As an outward sign it comprises the actions of the penitent in presenting himself to the priest and accusing himself of his sins, and the actions of the priest in pronouncing absolution and imposing satisfaction. This whole procedure is usually called, from one of its parts, "confession", and it is said to take place in the "tribunal of penance", because it is a judicial process in which the penitent is at once the accuser, the person accused, and the witness, while the priest pronounces judgment and sentence.'
    New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia
     
  19. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    we might ask the same of you :)
    penance is a satanic concept, sorry; completely against Christianity
    confess your sins, one to another
    forgive and you will be forgiven

    and i guess it goes without saying, but you once again are not in Kansas anymore, D
     
  20. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Mat 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

    Repentance is not penance.

    Repentance means to turn around. To stop living the way you were living before you knew the Lord and begin to follow him and his ways.

    Definition of penance
    1: an act of self-abasement, mortification (see MORTIFICATION sense 3), or devotion performed to show sorrow or repentance for sin He did charitable work as a penance.
    2: a sacramental rite that is practiced in Roman, Eastern, and some Anglican churches and that consists of private confession, absolution, and a penance directed by the confessor (see CONFESSOR sense 3a)
    3: something (such as a hardship or penalty) resembling an act of penance (as in compensating for an offense)

    You can't work your way to salvation. Jesus already did it for you.
    There is no penance you can perform that will justify yourself.

    If you do something wrong, then you should have a conviction in your heart. And you are sorry that you messed up.
    You then can ask Jesus to forgive you. Jesus is our High Priest and mediator between man and God.
    And no one comes to the Father but through him.
    Acts of charity should come from a willingness of heart out of love, rather than a duty to try to "make up" for ones sins.

    Penance is not biblical.
    You can't pray repititiously, over and over and over.. as if God didn't hear you the first time.
    A prayer must come from the heart and not a "recorded" message used to replace true remorse.
    You can't pay for forgiveness. One must ask and believe they receive, and go and sin no more.
    You can't earn forgiveness by substituting doing something charitable in place of asking for forgiveness.
    And no man can take away your sins on earth except the Lord Jesus who died and paid the penalty for them.
    That's between you and the Lord alone.
    Confess your sins to the Lord.

    Hugs
     
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