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What constitutes penance!

Discussion in 'The Church Forum' started by theefaith, Mar 13, 2022.

  1. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    there are two parts to it

    repentance and true sorrow for offering God and imploring His mercy and forgiveness

    and making recompense to the divine justice

    a boy may break a window with his baseball!

    humble himself and ask his fathers forgiveness
    And having forgiven his son says now you must give up your allowance and do odd jobs till to pay for the window!

    Christ thru his church makes his merits and graces available to those in the communion of saints to penance and make restitution to the divine justice!
     
  2. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    you said quote “you cannot work your way to salvation”

    work involves the will to choose (volition)

    now you say we must believe
    We must choose to believe!

    I must do it!

    thats works and something I do

    and Roman’s says I must confess with the mouth

    works choose volition

    yet you say there is NOTHING we can do to be saved????????
     
  3. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    Not only must we believe but remain in a state of believing until death

    Matt 24:13 endures to the end.

    Mark 13:13
    And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

    Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

    Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

    1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

    2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

    3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

    4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

    5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

    6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

    7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

    8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

    9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

    10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

    11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

    12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

    13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

    14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

    15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

    16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

    17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

    18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

    19. Some will abandon the faith

    20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

    22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

    23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

    24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

    25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

    26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

    Romans 13:11
    And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
     
  4. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    And the sacraments are required

    Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

    It’s not a do it yourself religion!
    It’s not a bible study!

    It’s a covenant!

    Not by “faith alone”
    “Faith alone” not biblical
    You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

    Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

    Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!
    Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

    You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!
    Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

    Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

    Colossians 1:20
    And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

    Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    Acts 22:16
    And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

    Rom 3:24
    Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

    1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    Heb 10:22
    Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

    Acts 2:47
    Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

    Romans 5:5
    And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

    1 Corinthians 12:13
    For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    Galatians 3:27
    For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

    73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

    74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

    There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

    1 Timothy 3:15
    But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

    Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

    Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


    Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
    The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


    “This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

    Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

    Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

    Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
    (Oath = sacrament)

    Hebrews 8:6
    But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


    A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
    Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

    The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

    Better covenant on better promises

    2 Timothy 1:1
    Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

    Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

    An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

    Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
    Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

    1 Corinthians 12:13
    For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    Galatians 3:27
    For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


    1 Pet 3:20
    Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

    21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
    (Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
    (Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

    St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

    Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

    Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

    Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

    Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
    Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

    Jn 1:16-17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
    (Thru faith and the sacraments!)
     
  5. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

    Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

    Born again! Born from above!

    'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

    Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

    St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

    Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

    1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

    21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
    (Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
    (Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

    Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!


    Faith alone apart from the sacraments
    Questions

    where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

    Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

    where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

    1 Corinthians 12:13
    For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

    Galatians 3:27
    For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

    Acts 22:16
    And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

    where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

    1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

    The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

    Acts 22:16
    And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

    1 Corinthians 12:13
    For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    Galatians 3:27
    For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
     
  6. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    That's not what the Bible says. That is the false doctrine of the false church called Roman Catholic.
     
  7. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    So, then you have faith that where you are, is the place where God wants you to be? Does God want anyone else in any other place? If no, then how can they come to know that?
     
  8. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    All I heard was:
    Let's Go Brandon!

    It's one of those days. o_O
    Hugs
     
  9. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    In his church that he founded on Peter
    Not any other founded by men
    With teaching errors the tradition of men
     
  10. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    the imitation of Christ
    He did penance so we do penance

    Do you pray?
    Fast?
    Alms?

    carry your cross?
     
  11. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    instead of “penance” may i suggest confessing your sin to the one you sinned against, and offering to make it right? And if/when you find that you cannot do that, bc ego, then you might understand why “penance” is heresy, imo, and also why you cannot Quote Jesus doing any “penance”

    and ps, why is this in “church forum” and not “unorthodox (orthodox)?”
    precisely bc a Catholic whose religion is imploding seeks to export that belief to Christians, right? Not here to learn anything new to them that is Christian at all, see; here to teach heresy
     
  12. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    mare you going to answer my question?

    is this absolute

    you’re quite “there is nothing we can do to be saved”?
     
  13. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Right so were the churches started by Paul false churches then? :rolleyes:
     
  14. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    imploding no! The church is eternal!

    Christ is eternal king!

    you cannot be Christian with correct faith and the sacraments

    confess to those Christ appointed
    Jn 20:23
    But that’s the sacrament of penance

    here we are talking about penance in general
    Prayer
    Fasting
    Alms deeds
     
  15. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    Self denial as Christ commanded

    Matthew 16:24
    Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

    if Christ did it all for you, why give this command?
     
  16. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    Christ founded the church on the apostles of which Paul was one!
    Eph 2:20
    See the vicarious nature or unity of Christ and his church

    Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

    Even His judging!
    Matt 19:28
    His teaching authority!
    Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
    His power to forgive sins!
    Jn 20:23
    His being the light of the world!
    Matt 5:14
    His ministry of reconciliation!
    2 cor 5:18
    His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
    Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
    Lk 22:29
    Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
    So the church is subject to Christ!
    Eph 5:24

    Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
    Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

    Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

    1 Corinthians 16:22
    If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

    Extends to the truth and the church

    Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

    Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

    Authority of the Apostles!

    What authority does Christ have?
    What power does Christ have?
    What mission / ministry does Christ have?

    Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

    John 17:18
    As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

    The apostles are Christ’s successors!
    They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

    Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
    Apostolic succession!

    The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

    Hebrews 3:1
    Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

    Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

    Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

    Moral authority:
    (Teaching)
    Necessity of being taught by Christ:
    Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

    Jurisdictional authority:
    (Governing / administering)
    Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

    Spiritual authority:
    (Life of Grace)
    Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

    The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

    Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

    Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
    Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
     
  17. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    All those founded by men apart from Christ and his apostles are false

    none of the so called reformers were apostles
    They had no authority from Christ

    truth is immutable!
    The church is the spotless bride and founded by Christ therefore ir-reformable
     
  18. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    test everything, and keep what is good
     
  19. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, a lot of stuff here that has nothing to do with what you or I said, and definitely nothing to do with the fact that the translation to say penance is not what the Greek says.
     
  20. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    How about simply in His Church not founded by any man... but subject to Jesus as the Head?
     
    reformed1689 and Ziggy like this.
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