Do you mean "prediction" as in prophecy?
The prophecy doesn't MAKE it happen? Just a foresight.
Great post BTW.
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What did Jesus die to save us from?
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The prophecy doesn't MAKE it happen? Just a foresight.
Great post BTW.
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Also Prophesy sometimes denotes opportunity but not outcome.
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
...for example 'I set before you an open door' does not mean you will walk through it.
Regarding #300 - QT seems to have a view similar to mine in at least some respects.
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Steve, I wonder what your take is on the Fear of the Lord.
When I read Isaiah 11 concerning Jesus's anointing, Reverential Fear is the key to remaining in righteousness (only doing what we see the Father doing) and Wisdom is birthed in same.
I think Heb 12 also spells out the difference between the old and new covenants as follows...
So Steve - in both cases the Fear of the Lord prevails and this is not in contradiction to His Love.
When I read Isaiah 11 concerning Jesus's anointing, Reverential Fear is the key to remaining in righteousness (only doing what we see the Father doing) and Wisdom is birthed in same.
I think Heb 12 also spells out the difference between the old and new covenants as follows...
Contrast of Sinai and Zion
18 For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind, 19 and to the blast of a trumpet and the sound of words, which sound was such that those who heard begged that no further word be spoken to them. 20 For they could not cope with the command, “If even an animal touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.” 21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, “I am terrified and trembling.” 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.The Unshaken Kingdom
25 See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape who turn away from Him who warns us from heaven. 26 And His voice shook the earth then, but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth, but also the heaven.” 27 This expression, “Yet once more,” denotes the removing of those things which can be shaken, as of created things, so that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let’s show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe; 29 for our God is a consuming fire.So Steve - in both cases the Fear of the Lord prevails and this is not in contradiction to His Love.
Thanks for your thoughtful post.
If we condense "Reverential Fear" to reverence, I'm much more comfortable with the idea.
Although, my tendency is to be rather irreverent. Familiarity breeds contempt.
The word fear canotes something we are terrified of. Something to run away from. To avoid at all cost.
I would hope that God is not someone we are terrified of. But maybe you see it that way?
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Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
So the well quoted verse - "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom" has no meaning for you ???
I must say that years back when the Spirit was moving amazingly in the 70's I had a prayer meeting in my flat while at university and we experienced what we could only describe as God 'passing by'
The experience left us speechless for a few hours.
The sense of the Holiness and Power of God was overwhelming.
It seems He reveals Himself in different ways - sometimes as a big Daddy - Sometimes as entirely 'other' and indescribably awesome.
I wouldn't say that.
I just think "fear" was a poor word choice for the translators.
Reverence for God is the beginning of wisdom?
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Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
OK... and after two in the gathering dropped dead and the scripture said...
Acts 5:5
And as he heard these words, Ananias collapsed and died; and great fear came over all who heard about it.
Was fear the appropriate word ?
And when this was said of the early church...
Acts 5:11
And great fear came over the whole church, and over all who heard about these things.
Was fear the appropriate word?
You see all who heard about it included the unsaved in this case, so this was unlikely to mean reverence?
And the folllowing references to God being Terrible - Is this a wrong choice of word as well?
Nehemiah 1:5
And said, I beseech thee, O Lord God of heaven, the great and terrible God, that keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him and observe his commandments:
Psalm 47:2
For the Lord most high is terrible; he is a great King over all the earth.
Psalm 99:3
Let them praise thy great and terrible name; for it is holy.
Yes.
Fear was the appropriate word.
But fear of what or whom?
I imagine people were avoiding Peter after that.
And the lost were avoiding the church.
Not an attractive feature that people are dropping dead.
I wouldn't put it on the Facebook page.
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Again, seems like a poor word choice.
In the Nehemiah verse, God is "terrible" because
He "keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him and observe his commandments:" ???
What's terrible about that?
In Psalm 47:2 God is "terrible" because He is "a great King over all the earth." ???
What's terrible about that?
In Psalm 99:3 God is "terrible" because His name "is holy." ???
What's terrible about that?
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Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Was Paul wrong then in Romans 9???
God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory
Perhaps what is wrong is your understanding of it.
The NIV makes verse 22 a "what if" question.
And verse 23 shows the outcome as "objects of his mercy".
(whom he prepared in advance for glory)
Romans 9:22-24 NIV
What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
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Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Steve. you seem to want to limit God to being always soft hearted in Word and action.
You will have to change a lot of references to support this.
Maybe your struggle with the bible reflects something personal in your life.
Folks that have sufferred under harsh disipline can struggle to see God the Father as He is when they have been presented with a distorted view of Love from their earthly fathers. This may not apply to you - just sayin...
You will have to change a lot of references to support this.
Maybe your struggle with the bible reflects something personal in your life.
Folks that have sufferred under harsh disipline can struggle to see God the Father as He is when they have been presented with a distorted view of Love from their earthly fathers. This may not apply to you - just sayin...
Do you believe that God will punish me with the blazing fury of His anger and wrath for such a transgression?
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