What did Jesus die to save us from?

[Behold]

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved.

The NT actually teaches that "if you believe in your heart that God has raised Jesus from the Dead" .. you shall be saved.

or.

"All who call on the Name of Jesus, (believing) shall be saved"..

So, if a person says....>"Jesus is Lord"........then that is not the same as them realising they are a sinner, needing to be forgiven, needing Jesus as their Savior, = which leads them to repent of their unbelief and then give God their Faith in Christ before they die and go to Hell.

So, @St. SteVen , you twist verses to teach a false Gospel, because you are the loud and proud victim of one.
The patient Brother who you've been trying to deceive with your Universalism Cult theology, has given you the benefit of the doubt that because you are on a "christian fourm" teaching Cross Rejecting theology, that you are just a little confused.

However, you are a lot more then that, fella.

Let me share something with you.

There are many deceived Calvinists on this forum.....however, and even tho their theolgy came from a demon possessed heretic........this theology, does not lead people to hell..

Whereas, your's does.... as your false Gospel of ".Universalism" is designed to keep unbelievers from trusting in Christ and die believing they are going to Heaven.....and that is a serious problem on a "christian forum"....if its allowed to continue to be taught, preached, shared, by a deceiver like you.

 

[St. SteVen]

OK you demonstrate you are really steeped in universalism.

There seems little point in raising biblical objections to your theological position.

I rarely play scripture ping pong - folks believe what they want for whatever reason.

I have tried to dialogue because I consider you a friend.

Can we agree to hold our views with a loose hand and He will bring correction in due course.

Steeped? - LOL

I still consider you a friend as well. Even though we have butted heads over this issue a few times.

Hopefully you understand that Universalism (apokatastasis) isn't some modern invention.
The belief was held by many in the eastern (Greek) church. (HQ'd in Jerusalem)
Our Bible came from the western (Latin) church in Rome. Thus the bias.

"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge" by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96 German theologian- Philip Schaff, Editor: "In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The main Patristic supporters of the apokatastasis theory, such as Bardaisan, Clement, Origin, Didymus, St. Anthony, St. Pamphilus Martyr, Methodius, St. Macrina, St. Gregory of Nyssa (and probably the two other Cappadocians), St. Evagrius Ponticus, Diodore of Tarsus, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. John of Jerusalem, Rufinus, St. Jerome and St. Augustine (at least initially) … Cassian, St. Issac of Nineveh, St. John of Dalyatha, Ps. Dionysius the Areopagite, probably St. Maximus the Confessor, up to John the Scot Eriugena, and many others, grounded their Christian doctrine of apokatastasis first of all in the Bible.
— Ramelli, Christian Doctrine, 11.

Apokatastasis in the Bible​

Apokatastasis in the early church​

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[Behold]

Hopefully you understand that Universalism (apokatastasis) isn't some modern invention.

@St Steven... very few of Satan's Gospel are "new"., including yours.

"Universalism", your demonic gospel, has been around for a long time.

I always smile at pretend "scholars" who try to use Catholic Cult Church Fathers as their "proof text".
And to try to use Origin, is a hoot... truly.
He's not the only religious lunitic on your list , but he's probably the most insane.
This one castrated Himself, at one point, and his teaching is the reason that Catholics believe in "Purgatory", tho Origin's initial concept was more about "soul sleep" that was eventually morphed into the Catholic nonsense they teach as : Purgatory.

 

[Brakelite]

Steeped? - LOL

I still consider you a friend as well. Even though we have butted heads over this issue a few times.

Hopefully you understand that Universalism (apokatastasis) isn't some modern invention.
The belief was held by many in the eastern (Greek) church. (HQ'd in Jerusalem)
Our Bible came from the western (Latin) church in Rome. Thus the bias.

"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge" by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96 German theologian- Philip Schaff, Editor: "In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The main Patristic supporters of the apokatastasis theory, such as Bardaisan, Clement, Origin, Didymus, St. Anthony, St. Pamphilus Martyr, Methodius, St. Macrina, St. Gregory of Nyssa (and probably the two other Cappadocians), St. Evagrius Ponticus, Diodore of Tarsus, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. John of Jerusalem, Rufinus, St. Jerome and St. Augustine (at least initially) … Cassian, St. Issac of Nineveh, St. John of Dalyatha, Ps. Dionysius the Areopagite, probably St. Maximus the Confessor, up to John the Scot Eriugena, and many others, grounded their Christian doctrine of apokatastasis first of all in the Bible.
— Ramelli, Christian Doctrine, 11.

Apokatastasis in the Bible​

Apokatastasis in the early church​

[

I disagree with your Latin roots for scripture. Our KJV received text goes back to Antioch.

 

[St. SteVen]

I disagree with your Latin roots for scripture. Our KJV received text goes back to Antioch.

I am referring to who canonized our scripture. Primarily the New Testament. As I understand it...
The canon was finalized by Rome (the Latin church) in the 4th century. The eastern (Greek) church was not a part of that.
The 1611 KJV came much later, and was an English translation.

But I am interested to hear more on your position concerning Antioch. Please share. Thanks.

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot

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[Seeding Loving]

what did Jesus die for concerning -⍧ Salvation ?

do not the prophets say that Jesus died to take a more physical control or " complete control " over the Spiritual Realm concerning afterlife and fate of human souls ?


Joh 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son
quickeneth whom he will.

Joh 5:21

ουδε Neither / not - γαρ that - ο the - πατηρ father - κρινε judges - ουδενα no one - αλλα except - την the - κρισιν judgement - πασαν of all - δεδωκεν he give - τω the - υιω son


\meaning \


Neither / not that the father judges no one but / except the judgement of all he gives the son.​

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him


THE PASSAGE IS NOT SAYING THAT - the father judges no man - it is saying that the father and the son raise the dead and also then explaining also

AND NOT THAT THE FATHER IS NOT THE JUDGE - BUT ALL JUDGMENT IS GIVEN TO THE SON

because they are the same God

:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

The passage is not saying that the father judges no man

it is saying that just as the father, the son also raises the dead

the father is judge - but all judgment is given to the son - they are " 1. " one - a primary numeral one

 

[St. SteVen]

what did Jesus die for concerning -⍧ Salvation ?

Welcome to the forum.

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[R.C.Jones]

What did Jesus die to save us from?​

A misconception of God's character.

You got it.

In Sensus Plenior terms, Jesus died to save us from not understanding — the condition symbolized in Scripture by darkness, blindness, ignorance, and death. His name Elohim means 'God אל separated from man ים (creation finished by the Son) by ignorance ה.

Canonical Thread​

• Genesis 3 — The fall begins with misunderstanding: Eve is deceived because she does not understand the command.
• Isaiah 53:6 — “All we like sheep have gone astray…” Sheep stray when they do not understand the shepherd’s voice (cf. John 10).
• John 1:5 — “The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.”
• Luke 24:45 — “Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures.”
• 1 Peter 2:9 — “Called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.”

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Reversal Pattern​

Before the Cross	After the Cross
We were in darkness	We walk in light (1 John 1:7)
We were dead in misunderstanding	We are alive in understanding (Col 2:13)
We were blind	Our eyes are opened (Luke 24:31)
We were estranged from God	We are brought near by revelation (Eph 2:13)

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Symbolic Core​

Jesus died to:

• Break the veil (Hebrews 10:20) — the veil of misunderstanding.
• Reveal the Father (John 14:9) — because no one understood Him.
• Undo the curse of Genesis 3 — not by reversing knowledge, but by restoring true understanding of God through Himself.

In SP terms, sin is not just disobedience, but the result of not understanding who God is. The cross is not only punishment—it is the teaching that makes understanding possible. It is the culmination of the revelation of God.

Our universal sin is making ourselves gods by declaring good and evil for ourselves. If we knew God, we wouldn't do that.

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic.

Which one are you in the story of the Prodigal?

I suppose we all know the story of the Prodigal. (Luke 15:11-32) But the characters can be representative of those in (and out) of the church. - The son that squandered his inheritance in riotous living. - The father that took him back unconditionally. - The older brother that complained...

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