What distinguishes a "Protestant?"

[BreadOfLife]

Augustine's total depravity renders free will in spiritual matters impossible.

HOW does the teaching of man’s complete depravity before coming to Christ affect free will??

 

[Dave L]

HOW does the teaching of man’s complete depravity before coming to Christ affect free will??

Total Depravity makes the true Christ unrecognizable. People always fabricate idols bearing his name unless first born again.

 

[CoreIssue]

The wages of sin is death, and babies who never sinned die. And God is perfectly Just.

Romans 5:12-21 New International Version (NIV)
Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Dave L]

Romans 5:12-21 New International Version (NIV)
Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If sin is not imputed where there is no law, why do babies die? Yet Paul says death reigned from Adam to Moses when there was no law. Paul gives the answer, for in Adam many were constituted sinners. In Christ many were constituted righteous.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Total Depravity makes the true Christ unrecognizable. People always fabricate idols bearing his name unless first born again.

And once again, you illustrate a complete ignorance of ALL things Catholic.
Augustine was CATHOLIC Bishop.

His approach to the "free choice of the will" states that "there can be no denying that we have a will." Augustine defines "good will" as "a will by which we seek to live a good and upright life and to attain unto perfect wisdom" – which is a good definition of what free will is.

His writings are echoed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church’s paragraph on Free Will:
(CCC 1711) "Endowed with a spiritual soul, with intellect and with FREE WILL, the human person is from his very conception ordered to God and destined for eternal beatitude."

Do your HOMEWORK . . .

 

[Dave L]

And once again, you illustrate a complete ignorance of ALL things Catholic.
Augustine was CATHOLIC Bishop.

His approach to the "free choice of the will" states that "there can be no denying that we have a will." Augustine defines "good will" as "a will by which we seek to live a good and upright life and to attain unto perfect wisdom" – which is a good definition of what free will is.

His writings are echoed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church’s paragraph on Free Will:
(CCC 1711) "Endowed with a spiritual soul, with intellect and with FREE WILL, the human person is from his very conception ordered to God and destined for eternal beatitude."

Do your HOMEWORK . . .

Total Depravity, Council of Ephesus 431 rules out Pelagianism/free will.

 

[CoreIssue]

Total Depravity makes the true Christ unrecognizable. People always fabricate idols bearing his name unless first born again.

So you're claiming you see the true Christ completely.

What you have posted makes it clear barely see Christ.

1 Corinthians 13:12 New International Version (NIV)
12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

 

[CoreIssue]

Augustine's total depravity renders free will in spiritual matters impossible.

Your definition of total depravity is not the definition taught by majority over time.

 

[Dave L]

Your definition of total depravity is not the definition taught by majority over time.

It is the scriptural view.

 

[Dave L]

So you're claiming you see the true Christ completely.

What you have posted makes it clear barely see Christ.

1 Corinthians 13:12 New International Version (NIV)
12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

You can only follow a false image (idol) of Christ apart from the new birth.

 

[CoreIssue]

It is the scriptural view.

I don't see your definition anywhere in the Bible.

 

[CoreIssue]

You can only follow a false image (idol) of Christ apart from the new birth.

And there is no new birth without repentance by faith and grace first.

 

[Dave L]

I don't see your definition anywhere in the Bible.

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21) (KJV 1900)

$100 reward if you can find free will in the flesh.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Total Depravity, Council of Ephesus 431 rules out Pelagianism/free will.

HUH??
Pelagianism held that a man can live a sinless life on his OWN. This STILL doesn’t discount free will.

YOU don’t seem to understand what free will is – and THAT is at the core of your confusion . . .

 

[Dave L]

And there is no new birth without repentance by faith and grace first.

No, you cannot discern spiritual truth without the new birth. So you won't want to believe or repent for any good reason.

 

[Dave L]

HUH??
Pelagianism held that a man can live a sinless life on his OWN. This STILL doesn’t discount free will.

YOU don’t seem to understand what free will is – and THAT is at the core of your confusion . . .

Free will is what makes Pelagius' claims possible. How could it be if he didn't think the will was free to do so?

 

[CoreIssue]

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21) (KJV 1900)

$100 reward if you can find free will in the flesh.

The verse has nothing to do with your claims of no free will.

 

[Dave L]

The verse has nothing to do with your claims of no free will.

Jesus says whoever sins is the slave of sin.

 

[BreadOfLife]

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21) (KJV 1900)

$100 reward if you can find free will in the flesh.

The Good Samaritan is a perfect example of a good work done by a person who was NOT considered acceptable by Jewish standards.

I'll send you an address for the $100 check . . .

 

[CoreIssue]

No, you cannot discern spiritual truth without the new birth. So you won't want to believe or repent for any good reason.

Your assumption.