What Do The Book of Daniel DECEIVERS Present?!?

[CharismaticLady]

I fully believe "finish, make, make, bring in, seal up, and anoint" are fulfilled in Christ, and will be an outward reality upon His return.

We weren't talking about that.

We were talking about the AoD, which is an event that happens after Jesus' day...which means Antiochus has nothing to do with any fulfillment of it.

Daniel talks of two different events of desecration, that you've lumped all into one. Daniel 8 was future to Daniel, but before Christ. Daniel 9 is after Christ, in 70 AD.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Wow also!
Like you, I studied that years ago. I am partly now, pointing it out by memory.
I can attest, and shall prove that it does all add up!!
.
So then, since you are truly interested to see and hear it, I will go back over it for YOU, and anyone else who is sincerely interested.
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Just to let you know in advance, when I do present it, it will disturb and unseat a lot of what has been taught by the visible churches. So please don't be alarmed, as our minds of "the natural man" tend to do, when Truth confronts preconceived ideas and doctrines.
The Holy Spirit WILL guide you, to be able to discern and trash that which has always been questionable in your mind.
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Unfortunately, for study, it is a bit lengthy, but I will present it in a few segments, so that you can discern it for yourself and digest it.
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Therefore, until I complete it, I may not be responding to CB regularly. It even may be that I shall start a new thread with it.
I shall let you know how it's progressing, before I post.

Thanks, also point out how you know how long Jesus's ministry was. I always though from a child, it was only 3 years, starting at His baptism and ending with His death.

 

[Jay Ross]

What did you want to hear, that Israel, with it's Temple will reign on the earth with Christ, under Jewish Law, for a thousand years?
It's NOT going to happen!!

So when your wisdom is said to be so small that it could be printed on the pointy end of a pin, all you can do is lash out wildly with what you believe are the beliefs of another member without even knowing what they might believe or understand about the End Times Prophecies.

Now I have consistently posted a number of times that, Israel will attempt to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem but as Christ foretold in Luke_14:28-30, they will not be able to finish the construction of rebuilding the Temple and that I will become the trigger for the nations of the earth to go up against Jerusalem and the Jews living in the Land of Canaan and that there will be a battle that can be seen from Jerusalem that causes the Israelites to repent and to seek the terms of Peace with the King fighting against the Kings of the earth at Armageddon, in Luke_14:31-33. Jesus then goes on to tell Israel that if they have lost their saltiness that they will be discarded and thrown out onto the dung heap.

Again in Luke_19:11-27, Jesus foretells that the Jews will reject the influence of Satan, when Satan, claiming that he is going away to receive a kingdom and that he would then return, whereas, we also know from scripture, that he will be thrown out of heaven and immediately imprisoned in the Bottomless pit and when he is released after the decreed 1,000 year period, he will know that his time will be short to achieve his goal of becoming like a god.

Now if 1 and 2 Maccabees was removed from the Protestant's canon of the Bible, then It must have been removed for very valid reasons of which I have not researched yet.

However, it seems that your whole argument hinges on the mistaken understanding that 1 and 2 Maccabees is a reliable source for understanding how Daniel_8 has been fulfilled even though, the time span spoken of in the chapter has not yet run if full course, which will be completed in around 25 years time at Armageddon when all of the nation that go up to Armageddon to go against Israel will be Judged by Christ and a heavenly army.

Yes Israel will reign with Christ as Priests, still scattered throughout the whole earth, where God scattered them to, to be a blessing to all of the peoples of the earth, if the people of the earth choses to respond to their teaching about the love of God and repent of their evil.

Earburner, if you are going to rant against another member of this forum, please do so with facts that stack up about that member, not just your fantasies about what you think that person believes or understands.

Readers on this forum will see through you and dismiss your POV as hogwash.

Shalom

 

[Jay Ross]

Daniel talks of two different events of desecration, that you've lumped all into one. Daniel 8 was future to Daniel, but before Christ. Daniel 9 is after Christ, in 70 AD.

Wow, you have your understanding all squared away through your wrong assumptions about the Prophecies that God has provided, without seeing the time spans that they cover.

Like Earburner, how could I dare argue against your wisdom which is as large as his.

Shalom

PS: - The trampling of the Sanctuary began around 260-250 BC when the influence of Hellenism began creeping into the "acceptable" Jewish culture and religious practices and it has continued for over 2,200 years up and until the present time..

 

[CharismaticLady]

Wow, you have your understanding all squared away through your wrong assumptions about the Prophecies that God has provided, without seeing the time spans that they cover.

Like Earburner, how could I dare argue against your wisdom which is as large as his.

Shalom

PS: - The trampling of the Sanctuary began around 260-250 BC when the influence of Hellenism began creeping into the "acceptable" Jewish culture and religious practices and it has continued for over 2,200 years up and until the present time..

Hi Aussie buddy, why throw out an accusation without showing what exactly is wrong.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hi Aussie buddy, why throw out an accusation without showing what exactly is wrong.

PS: - I did in the PS to my previous post. I told when it approximately started and indicated that it has not yet run its full course in time, to show you what exactly is wrong.

 

[CharismaticLady]

PS: - I did in the PS to my previous post. I told when it approximately started and indicated that it has not yet run its full course in time, to show you what exactly is wrong.

I went back and saw it. So you believe that the 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy were years, when they match the 6 creation evening and morning days. Let me ask you a question. Did God create the world in 6 24 hr days, 6 years, or 6 thousand years? The correct interpretation is given (evenings and mornings).

 

[Jay Ross]

I went back and saw it. So you believe that the 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy were years, when they match the 6 creation evening and morning days. Let me ask you a question. Did God create the world in 6 24 hr days, 6 years, or 6 thousand years? The correct interpretation is given (evenings and mornings).

I cannot answer that question as the evidence within the Creation Account in Genesis is subject to personal interpretation and the understanding of the length of a day within either God's time frame of reference or the time frame of reference for mankind. The time period of י֥וֹם Yown could represent a very long period of time or it could represent a short period of time, but we first must establish the reference timeframe in which the word was used to understand the correct context of the length of the Creation account..

The arguments over the length of time taken by God during the six days of creation should not add to or reduce our relationship with God. If we believe God Created the heavens and the earth and all that is within them, then how long God took, becomes completely irrelevant within the context of our relationship with God.

However, in The Book of Daniel where weeks of days or multiply periods of days are used to describe a prophetic time period, it has been consistently understood that a prophetic day is equal to a solar year period. How a period of a day is arrived at, to my way of thinking tends to become irrelevant.

When I have put God's prophecies onto a chronological timeline they all seem to confirm that the 2,300 years of the sanctuary of God being trampled by the gentiles is correct. However, at this present time I am not prepared to reveal my timeline understanding because of the argumentative nature of some of the members of this forum.

Shalom

 

[CharismaticLady]

I cannot answer that question as the evidence within the Creation Account in Genesis is subject to personal interpretation and the understanding of the length of a day within either God's time frame of reference or the time frame of reference for mankind. The time period of י֥וֹם Yown could represent a very long period of time or it could represent a short period of time, but we first must establish the reference timeframe in which the word was used to understand the correct context of the length of the Creation account..

The arguments over the length of time taken by God during the six days of creation should not add to or reduce our relationship with God. If we believe God Created the heavens and the earth and all that is within them, then how long God took, becomes completely irrelevant within the context of our relationship with God.

However, in The Book of Daniel where weeks of days or multiply periods of days are used to describe a prophetic time period, it has been consistently understood that a prophetic day is equal to a solar year period. How a period of a day is arrived at, to my way of thinking tends to become irrelevant.

When I have put God's prophecies onto a chronological timeline they all seem to confirm that the 2,300 years of the sanctuary of God being trampled by the gentiles is correct. However, at this present time I am not prepared to reveal my timeline understanding because of the argumentative nature of some of the members of this forum.

Shalom

Most of Christendom agrees that the days of creation week were 24 hour periods of time, and the evening and morning distinguishes Daniel 8 as the same as creation week, whatever that time frame is. I believe it means 24 hours. So for you to calculate the 2300 day prophecy, you are first going to have to determine how long a day was during creation week as the description is the key. Right now you have it as years, and I don't believe that even you think that one year is true of the days of creation week. So you are going to have to throw away your interpretation, hard as that may be, and start over. I do believe there is another prophecy that you could use to accomplish the same thing of reaching our time, and that is Hosea 6:1-3. Two days of 1000 years each, with one thousand years as the Millennium. I believe Israel was "torn" in 70 AD which would make the Millennium around 2070, give or take our errors in the calendar.

For me that means 2300 evenings and mornings is about 6.3 years, and it is interesting that the Jewish revolt under Antiochus Epiphanes IV was that long. It also has the sacrifice of a pig on the altar, defiling the temple. Herod built a new temple. That does it for Daniel 8.

Now looking at Daniel 9, it is interesting that another Jewish revolt happened in 66 AD and lasted till 73 AD (7 years). In the middle of that time period the temple was destroyed putting an end to sacrifices and fulfills Daniel 9:27.

 

[Jay Ross]

Most of Christendom agrees that the days of creation week were 24 hour periods of time, and the evening and morning distinguishes Daniel 8 as the same as creation week, whatever that time frame is. I believe it means 24 hours. So for you to calculate the 2300 day prophecy, you are first going to have to determine how long a day was during creation week as the description is the key. Right now you have it as years, and I don't believe that even you think that one year is true of the days of creation week. So you are going to have to throw away your interpretation, hard as that may be, and start over. I do believe there is another prophecy that you could use to accomplish the same thing of reaching our time, and that is Hosea 6:1-3. Two days of 1000 years each, with one thousand years as the Millennium. I believe Israel was "torn" in 70 AD which would make the Millennium around 2070, give or take our errors in the calendar.

For me that means 2300 evenings and mornings is about 6.3 years, and it is interesting that the Jewish revolt under Antiochus Epiphanes IV was that long. It also has the sacrifice of a pig on the altar, defiling the temple. Herod built a new temple. That does it for Daniel 8.

Now looking at Daniel 9, it is interesting that another Jewish revolt happened in 66 AD and lasted till 73 AD (7 years). In the middle of that time period the temple was destroyed putting an end to sacrifices and fulfills Daniel 9:27.

If you go back to the creation story, you read, the text and consider the Hebrew words you will see the following: -

Genesis 1:14-19: - 14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days { וּלְיָמִ֖ים ū·lə·yā·mîm } and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day { הַיּ֔וֹם hay·yō·wm }, and the lesser light to rule the night { הַמָּא֤וֹר ham·mā·’ō·wr }. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day { י֥וֹם yō·wm }.​

Please notice the differences in the Hebrew words that are translated as "day". As such the translated "days" in the above passage have very different meanings, corresponding to the reference time frame in which they have been used.

Now if you check out Daniel 8:14 the original language text uses different words again from Genesis_1:16 to describe the passing of the morning and the dusk to indicate the passing of a day.

I do not believe that the understanding is as cut and dry as you would suggest.

Also claiming that "Most of Christendom agrees that the days of creation week were 24 hour periods of time" is a false argument as this is untrue and gives the impression that few if any people would have a differing opinion.

I have not jumped to my conclusions overnight and nailed them down as undisputable facts. It is something that the HS has revealed to me over many years.

Does secularism require a war or an aggressive act to be trampling our society today? How you answer this question may give you an insight into the problems that you are generating concerning the Gentiles trampling the sanctuary looking for a once off event that can be used to a contrary understanding.

Shalom

PS: - Secularism has been trampling our society for thousands of years with few if any pegs to hang our hat on to say, it happened during this time period. Secularism which is another form of Hellenism has been causing havoc within the congregations of churches for many, many, years and cause many to fall away from the faith.

 

[CharismaticLady]

If you go back to the creation story, you read, the text and consider the Hebrew words you will see the following: -

Genesis 1:14-19: - 14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days { וּלְיָמִ֖ים ū·lə·yā·mîm } and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day { הַיּ֔וֹם hay·yō·wm }, and the lesser light to rule the night { הַמָּא֤וֹר ham·mā·’ō·wr }. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day { י֥וֹם yō·wm }.​

Please notice the differences in the Hebrew words that are translated as "day". As such the translated "days" in the above passage have very different meanings, corresponding to the reference time frame in which they have been used.

Now if you check out Daniel 8:14 the original language text uses different words again from Genesis_1:16 to describe the passing of the morning and the dusk to indicate the passing of a day.

I do not believe that the understanding is as cut and dry as you would suggest.

Also claiming that "Most of Christendom agrees that the days of creation week were 24 hour periods of time" is a false argument as this is untrue and gives the impression that few if any people would have a differing opinion.

I have not jumped to my conclusions overnight and nailed them down as undisputable facts. It is something that the HS has revealed to me over many years.

Does secularism require a war or an aggressive act to be trampling our society today? How you answer this question may give you an insight into the problems that you are generating concerning the Gentiles trampling the sanctuary looking for a once off event that can be used to a contrary understanding.

Shalom

PS: - Secularism has been trampling our society for thousands of years with few if any pegs to hang our hat on to say, it happened during this time period. Secularism which is another form of Hellenism has been causing havoc within the congregations of churches for many, many, years and cause many to fall away from the faith.

How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot?”

I don't see that secularism is concerning the daily sacrifices. There is no longer a temple for the daily sacrifices to be offered in. What temple is being trampled underfoot?

 

[Jay Ross]

How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot?”

I don't see that secularism is concerning the daily sacrifices. There is no longer a temple for the daily sacrifices to be offered in. What temple is being trampled underfoot?

Just a little hint. It is both the Sanctuary in Jerusalem and the Hosts of Israel that are to be trampled for 2,300 years. The Hosts of Israel were being trampled from around 260-250 BC up and until this present time and the trampling of the Hosts of Israel will not be fully completed for around another 25 years before Israel will be redeemed. Yes the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD and the sanctuary in Jerusalem has not been able to perform any sacrifices since. Also the Mosques on the Temple mound, is another sign of the Sanctuary of God being tramples.

Shalom

PS: - My example of Secularism was to help present the case of how the Sanctuary in the people is being trampled at present.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Just a little hint. It is both the Sanctuary in Jerusalem and the Hosts of Israel that are to be trampled for 2,300 years. The Hosts of Israel were being trampled from around 260-250 BC up and until this present time and the trampling of the Hosts of Israel will no be fully completed for around another 25 years before Israel will be redeemed. Yes the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD and the sanctuary in Jerusalem has not been able to perform any sacrifices since. Also the Mosques on the Temple mound, is another sign of the Sanctuary of God being tramples.

Shalom

PS: - My example of Secularism was to help present the case of how the Sanctuary in the people is being trampled at present.

What significance is 260-250 BC? They had already been trampled on when they became slaves of Babylon.

 

[Jay Ross]

What significance is 260-250 BC? They had already been trampled on when they became slaves of Babylon.

What significance is 260-250 BC? They had already been trampled on when they became slaves of Babylon.

That was when the Grecian Empire began to exercise dominion over the land/country of Judah, i.e. the southern kingdom of the tribes of Israel. Alexandra the Great came and saw but left again. Some 70 or so years later, the Grecian Empire entered and stayed for a period of time.

Babylon on the other hand came, took the people into exile and then left. Why did this occur? Because they did not give the land rest as was required by the Lord.

The Grecian came and added to idolatrous worship in the land.

Shalom

 

[CharismaticLady]

That was when the Grecian Empire began to exercise dominion over the land/country of Judah, i.e. the southern kingdom of the tribes of Israel. Alexandra the Great came and saw but left again. Some 70 or so years later, the Grecian Empire entered and stayed for a period of time.

Babylon on the other hand came, took the people into exile and then left. Why did this occur? Because they did not give the land rest as was required by the Lord.

The Grecian came and added to idolatrous worship in the land.

Shalom

I thought the 70 weeks prophecy was the punishment for not giving the land rest, not Babylon, but I could be wrong. Do you have a text I could see?

 

[Jay Ross]

I thought the 70 weeks prophecy was the punishment for not giving the land rest, not Babylon, but I could be wrong. Do you have a text I could see?

Start at Genesis_1:1 like I did and continue reading until you find it. But do not stop there, continue reading until you get to Revelation_22:21, and if you did not see the passage, start all over again. Better still, keep repeating this practice until all the whole prophetic words in the Bible becomes crystal clear.

Shalom

 

[Bobby Jo]

... you are, using the bible to justify ...

... the TRUTH. And you should too, but I guess if you don't have any pearls to cast you throw dispersions.


Bobby Jo

 

[Jay Ross]

... the TRUTH. And you should too, but I guess if you don't have any pearls to cast you throw dispersions.


Bobby Jo

Really? is that the best you can do with your put down, by claiming that what you post is the Truth? Really you should be ashamed of yourself for what you are posting.

Even, the pointy end of a pin has too large of an area to accommodate all of your wisdom with enough left over for many others just like you.

 

[Phoneman777]

By all means don't lose your calculator!

I happen to have one of those old reliable calculators that doesn't allow for insertion of "gap theory" values LOL

 

[Phoneman777]

The prophecy about the little horn of the 3rd beast (Grecian) was fulfilled and fleshed out to be Antiochus Epiphanes of the Seleucid Empire.

No it wasn't. The facts prove the Little Horn comes out of one of the four winds, not the horns.

People who've heard of Antiochus the Chump: history majors and Jesuit Futurists
People who've heard of Alex the Great: the entire planet Earth

Yet, somehow, the Chump is supposed to be "exceeding great" beyond Alex, right?