What do you do when people don't want to hear the truth

[Soverign Grace]

I see nothing wrong in praying for God to redeem His children. You are not praying for revenge, but justice.
And, yeah, I love those "growth spurts" lol. I only wish they were closer together!

You said what I've struggled with. It isn't revenge, it's justice. God is a just God and when people do wrong to your family, I think it's right that you pray that God administer justice. The pastor at our bible study said we're not to pray like the imprecatory psalms, but for someone who has been hurt so deeply, and felt grief deep in the soul I can see it. Maybe for someone who hasn't felt these deep gaping wounds may not understand it.

I've felt God very close - more than I have in a long time. I feel that something is up or about to happen - I just don't know what.

 

[Nancy]

You said what I've struggled with. It isn't revenge, it's justice. God is a just God and when people do wrong to your family, I think it's right that you pray that God administer justice. The pastor at our bible study said we're not to pray like the imprecatory psalms, but for someone who has been hurt so deeply, and felt grief deep in the soul I can see it. Maybe for someone who hasn't felt these deep gaping wounds may not understand it.

I've felt God very close - more than I have in a long time. I feel that something is up or about to happen - I just don't know what.

Oh I am sure that one who has not experienced what you have could ever possibly have a clue. I see a huge difference in revenge and recompense. Our pastors can be wonderful but, they are human too, and not always correct. You have to go where God leads you and, exercise your faith in prayer...then watch our God work His will!

 

[quietthinker]

I looked the verse up and Christ told the rich young ruler to sell all he had and give to the poor, and he was sad. I think I'm missing something you're trying to convey?

Jesus let him go. He didn't try to persuade him against his choice.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Although i guess i could explore some Scripture on "the wise," which i will do tonight God willing." I would love to know what you find

mostly a general sense gotten from reading them all, Bible Search: wise NT
as there are 2 diff "wise," and "wise in his own eyes" is never fully defined, although their characteristics mark them out in other Scripture

 

[bbyrd009]

I've felt God very close - more than I have in a long time. I feel that something is up or about to happen - I just don't know what.

this is "quickening" imo, and...your reaction will be according to your level of surrender, something like that.

of course we all like to believe we are completely surrendered, as we work for food and pay our mortgages and buy insurance and make plans for tomorrow, and i don't mean to necessarily condemn those things, but they do usually insulate us from God, at least the way we do them. Iow our reaction tends to be confined within those parameters?

 

[Soverign Grace]

Oh I am sure that one who has not experienced what you have could ever possibly have a clue. I see a huge difference in revenge and recompense. Our pastors can be wonderful but, they are human too, and not always correct. You have to go where God leads you and, exercise your faith in prayer...then watch our God work His will!

I think that's wise advice. Pastors are human and may not always hold more insight than other believers. I have been waiting on some big answered prayers - I know God hears me, yet some things have not come to pass. It almost feels like giving birth! You wait and wait for the day when you can pray: "Surely God has heard my prayer, he has given heed to the voice of my supplication." I've prayed that prayer before in tears when answered prayers came. I am waiting to say it again. The waiting is hard. I would sincerely appreciate prayers for unspoken needs.

I am encouraged coming here.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Jesus let him go. He didn't try to persuade him against his choice.

Ok - I see. Something to keep in mind when one deals with another who doesn't want to hear truth. I know you can't ram truth at someone, but there are times when it's important to speak it - I've encountered it sometimes that people don't want to face truth. I had an incident where a sister who never had a family, was interfering in mine, so I had to tell her not to contact them because she was causing trouble in my family. She immediately texted me saying that she was going to withhold money from my inheritance since she was named Executrix. It was clearly revenge. She didn't want to be told to stop contacting them - she didn't care that she was causing trouble in my family - she didn't have a family and didn't know how one works. She weaponized my father's estate and found a corrupt lawyer to threaten me to sign their accounting taking thousands from my share. I refused to sign it and she contacted my daughter in law and son, trashing me! My daughter-in-law got upset and my son went back at her - she actually had the gall to try to turn them against me. She even contacted my husband trying to turn him against me. I knew it was another spiritual attack. I asked a friend who was appalled and said that she's frightening because she knew I was having severe medical problems. She said that my sister was being influenced by Satan but that she was making the choice to do evil. Is that how others see it?

I tried to think of whether she was ultimately responsible for her ugly choices. The lawyer was a stone-cold liar. He lied repeatedly and even got my brother to lie and say that I owed that money. My sister is a manipulator par excellence, and manipulated him to lie thinking that the judge was going to fall for it. So I went to court and unbelievably the judge ruled in my favor! The lawyer is a big shot in the area - the top law firm. I'm not a lawyer but I wrote a brief and it reached the judges heart - I think she recognized the truth. I knew God had heard my prayer.
Proverbs 21:1

“The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.”

The corrupt lying lawyer stood to talk after I had finished talking and the judge turned to him and said "I don't need to hear from you."

It was unbelievable. My nasty sister went to court with the other sister that had done much evil to my family. She sat there like she was holding all the cards: she had the lying lawyer in her pocket since she was the Executrix controlling the money, she had the support of the other evil sibling, had my brother lie and sign a false statement (she's a mean woman and said he 'blew his brains out on drugs' and yet manipulated him using his vulnerable state) The lawyer was from the top firm in the area, and had threatened me repeatedly and lied and tried everything to force me to sign that paper and I refused. With all that against me we went to court and my sister thought she was going to win and gave me a contemptible look. With all that against me, I won - with the help of the Lord.

"Surely God has heard my prayer, He has given heed to my supplication."

So this was a case where I tried to tell the truth and told the judge that this entire situation was because of my sister being angry because I told her to stop contacting my children because she was causing trouble. The lawyer kept writing back that it had nothing to do with that. They lied. I told the truth. The judge recognized the truth and judged in my favor. It doesn't always work that way. The judge could have been buddies with the lawyer as is sometimes the case. He's big man on campus at that court. He lied disgustingly, upsetting me. But with God's help I prevailed.

I still have the option of going after the lawyer for charging the estate $2k extra for harassing me for 11 months. Can I get others' opinions on this? Should I pursue the lawyer for harassing me for 11 months and try to get the $2k back or should I drop it? It's been bothering me because he's a filthy liar and upset me for a long time with his lies. I'm unsure what to do.

 

[Willie T]

All you really have to do is to look around at only this one single forum to see what is supposedly "Truth" being slung at you from all directions, in at least twenty-five or thirty different ways. And each one is the sworn "Truth", according to the peddler of that particular tale.

Well, your prospective "targets" have also heard much of the same.

And, you truly expect those you approach to believe it is YOU who has finally brought the "Truth" to their waiting ears, and that they should listen, breathlessly, to your words of wisdom?

Really???

Tell of your own, esoteric, experiences, and let it go at that. As far as trying to preach at them goes, they all have access to the Bible, and it is a fair bet most of them have already read some of it. Give The Holy Spirit enough credit to know that He is able to work with that. (He just might better understand how to reach them than you do.)

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm unsure what to do.

a decision of that nature against him on his record would be in the public domain, and might be a responsibility even.

the way that would go would be you sue for it, he will of course not want to go to court on the matter and offer a settlement, $10k would not be surprising even, remember why you sued tho imo k. Make it plain you will donate the decision to your local Victim-Witness fund or something even, if you like. Or settle and take the money even, the suit remains public record anyway, and everyone who matters understands that a settlement = guilt

the suit is for "pain and suffering," and you can even go file it yourself, the law library lady will even help, it's easy

 

[Soverign Grace]

All you really have to do is to look around at only this one single forum to see what is supposedly "Truth" slung at you from all directions, in at least twenty-five or thirty different ways. And each one is the sworn "Truth", according to the peddler of that particular tale.

Well, your prospective "targets" have also heard much of the same.

And, you truly expect those you approach to believe it is YOU who has finally brought the "Truth", and that they should listen, breathlessly, to your words of wisdom?

Really???

Tell of your own, esoteric, experiences, and let it go at that. As far as trying to preach at them goes, they all have access to the Bible, and it is a fair bet most of them have already read some of it. Give The Holy Spirit enough credit to know that He is able to work with that. (He just might better understand how to reach them than you do.)

I think you're taking what i'm saying out of context Willie. I know about pride and that no one should wait breathlessly to hear my words of truth; there is a time when one is "handling rightly the word of truth" such as in my case with the lying sister and lying lawyer. In that case, my sister denied that she was trying to keep some of my inheritance because I told her to stop contacting my children. It was the truth: it was in black and white on the text she sent. As soon as I told her to stop contacting them because she was causing trouble in my family, she immediately texted that she was the executrix and would be making the decision that I owed money to my father's estate that I had to repay. It was irrefutable that her motivations to withhold money from me were because i told her to stop contacting my children.

That was the TRUTH. She and her lawyer denied that was the reason and lied and claimed that I owed money to the estate. They tried to force me to sign a paper stating that and I refused because it was the TRUTH that there was no arrangement with my father that I owed money to the estate. It was a LIE made up by my sister, to get me back for telling her to stop contacting my children.

So in this particular case the TRUTH prevailed. I'm not trying to say in any way that I need to ram truth down someone's throat and by God they'd better listen because I'm the one wielding the true word of truth! No. I know full well that I'm a sinner and that I'm not right all the time - yet in cases such as this where one is clearly lying they're cases where people don't want to hear the truth. My sister saw pure hate and wanted to hurt me for her own selfish reasons. She didn't care that she hurt my family and caused severe problems, she only cared about her own selfish needs. I'm usually fair with people, but she caused severe harm that I don't want to go into here or the very depths of how deep the pain runs. All I can say is that God knows how deep it is and how wrong she was and He let me prevail. Victory didn't come easy - I had to work for it. I spent 11 months fighting it and I endured a lot of hardship because of it. I don't like dealing with liars and finally told the lawyer to leave me alone. I had to type up several briefs.

No one waited with baited breath for my word of truth: I had to fight lies with the TRUTH.

I think you may be referring to doctrinal differences which is another animal altogether.

 

[Soverign Grace]

a decision of that nature against him on his record would be in the public domain, and might be a responsibility even.

the way that would go would be you sue for it, he will of course not want to go to court on the matter and offer a settlement, $10k would not be surprising even, remember why you sued tho imo k. Make it plain you will donate the decision to your local Victim-Witness fund or something even, if you like. Or settle and take the money even, the suit remains public record anyway, and everyone who matters understands that a settlement = guilt

the suit is for "pain and suffering," and you can even go file it yourself, the law library lady will even help, it's easy

Yes I thought that it might be a responsibility because I don't think that lawyer should get away with doing that to someone. He harassed me for 11 months - unlawfully. He even had a woman lawyer who works in the court "lose" my brief. She was corrupt. I'm on the fence about whether I should pursue it or leave it to God. I'm back to my old struggle again: what is our responsibility vs what God's is. I just don't know and it's hard to determine. This is a question that has stumped me for the entirety of my Christian walk.

 

[Willie T]

In $ cases like this, you are not trying to convince a family member of any sort of "truth." You are eventually presenting the facts, as you see them, to a court, and they will decide.

 

[Taken]

I've seen over the course of years and most recently how people - even Christians - have an aversion for the truth. I know that none of us grow overnight and that there are areas in each of our minds that God has to yet renew but I wonder how others handle it when faced with people who come out and attack you verbally for speaking the truth.

I just dealt with a situation in my extended family where my (now ex-sister) used a corrupt lawyer to try to get me back for telling her to stop contacting my children because she was causing trouble. She then weaponized my father's estate and acted like a kook to try to keep money my father left me since she was Executrix. I was forced to defend myself against the low-life lawyer and the vicious attacks on me. She even called my daughter in-law and was trashing me and when she couldn't get them on her side she unfriended them. She never had a family and I think she hoped she could use mine as hers. She did other things like that such as waiting until I was out of state to get my children to take our father out and then sent me photos of her sitting in the midst of them like the matriarch. I realized that there was a lot of jealousy there but she made her own choices.

I fought back against the nasty lawyer and went to court and prevailed. I had an honest judge - and that isn't always the case. The lawyer still kept money that he wasn't entitled to from the estate which I'm still unsettled over. My ex-sister lied repeatedly about her motivations but I had saved a text where as soon as I told her to leave my children alone she immediately threatened to keep money from my inheritance. I proved her to be a liar.

The owner of the law firm is allegedly a Christian and knew this was going on. I emailed him and told him that he owes me money and he threatened to sue me - it was his firm who did wrong. We knew what he was about before that. He acted superior to everyone else and his son was the town drug dealer. He said something mean about one of my family and I told him it was known that his son was the drug dealer. He couldn't handle the truth. He wanted everyone else to go along with his delusion that he and his family were above everyone else. I was attacked for speaking the truth.

What's even more frustrating is that his son ruined many lives but never got in trouble himself and is now a lawyer. I don't understand why God doesn't expose them to the people who don't know what they did. They made a lot of money with the son selling drugs and the father representing teens that his son sold drugs to.

The same thing happened with another sinning bible teacher who put down other people's families and his son was so corrupt they had to give their business up in town because of something corrupt they did.

I see so many people who don't live by the truth and when I try to I get attacked - often viciously. Has this happened to anyone else? I'm seeing that it's dangerous to speak the truth - people don't want to hear it.

First of all YOU are not alone.
Many Converted people have to be subjected to others, who are corrupt...even those who wear the "badge", calling themselves Christians, yet revealing their rotten Fruit.

The TRUTH is what YOU KNOW, what it means to be IN CHRIST, that "you will be", treated just as poorly and unjust, as Jesus was treated.

People who treat you poorly and unjust...
Know exactly what they are doing, and do think they are getting away with what is yours. Cut your loses, and Cut your ties.
And keep them OUT. It is YOUR husband, YOUR children who need to KNOW your position, and why. And a request from YOU to THEM, to honor your position.

It is reasonable. You are due Honor from Your husband and Your children.

What, shall befall those who mistreat and unjustly treat others, SHALL....IF they are "truly Born again"... Lose out on position in Heaven.
And IF NOT "truly Born again"...SUFFER Gods Vengeance, at His appointed time.

Remember, THEY already know the truth, what they think is secret. It simply angers them that you know, and thus they remind you, they are holding with authority, what is yours, and YOU know, "those with authority can wield their authority according to a way, which is Corrupt".
Just saying, you feeling better, by telling them you know the TRUTH, will not be advantages to you.

Sorry for your troubles,
God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes I thought that it might be a responsibility because I don't think that lawyer should get away with doing that to someone. He harassed me for 11 months - unlawfully. He even had a woman lawyer who works in the court "lose" my brief. She was corrupt. I'm on the fence about whether I should pursue it or leave it to God. I'm back to my old struggle again: what is our responsibility vs what God's is. I just don't know and it's hard to determine. This is a question that has stumped me for the entirety of my Christian walk.

imo that tension will never leave, ok, that decision is up to you, and notice that at least in a sense someone is going to condemn you no matter what, right. Be true to yourself, and do what seems right to you imo, but i would say obviously if you get an offer of settlement you are immediately vindicated, and newspapers have columns to fill now, which is really your goal anyway right, exposure

 

[Nancy]

I think that's wise advice. Pastors are human and may not always hold more insight than other believers. I have been waiting on some big answered prayers - I know God hears me, yet some things have not come to pass. It almost feels like giving birth! You wait and wait for the day when you can pray: "Surely God has heard my prayer, he has given heed to the voice of my supplication." I've prayed that prayer before in tears when answered prayers came. I am waiting to say it again. The waiting is hard. I would sincerely appreciate prayers for unspoken needs.

I am encouraged coming here.

Oh boy - the WAITING!!! I know, can be frustrating...until- we rest in Him knowing that He hears our prayers and answers them ALL according to His will and perfect timing! So, the way I look at it NOW (wasn't always this way, lol) is, if I know I am praying His will, and I believe He will answer, AND, if I have no control over the situation anyhow...I rest knowing His timing is always PERFECT. You are on my regular prayer list Sovereign. You will indeed say that prayer that gives you tears of joy again, and in turn...your faith will grow STRONGER yet

 

[farouk]

Oh boy - the WAITING!!! I know, can be frustrating...until- we rest in Him knowing that He hears our prayers and answers them ALL according to His will and perfect timing! So, the way I look at it NOW (wasn't always this way, lol) is, if I know I am praying His will, and I believe He will answer, AND, if I have no control over the situation anyhow...I rest knowing His timing is always PERFECT. You are on my regular prayer list Sovereign. You will indeed say that prayer that gives you tears of joy again, and in turn...your faith will grow STRONGER yet

"Thy will be done" is a great way to pray, right?

 

[Soverign Grace]

Oh boy - the WAITING!!! I know, can be frustrating...until- we rest in Him knowing that He hears our prayers and answers them ALL according to His will and perfect timing! So, the way I look at it NOW (wasn't always this way, lol) is, if I know I am praying His will, and I believe He will answer, AND, if I have no control over the situation anyhow...I rest knowing His timing is always PERFECT. You are on my regular prayer list Sovereign. You will indeed say that prayer that gives you tears of joy again, and in turn...your faith will grow STRONGER yet

Thank you. I hope I say that prayer again. It has been a very long wait. For me resting is hard - I don't know why. I'm a proactive type so am always trying to do - so it's hard for me to not do anything. But I keep turning to Him over and over. Thank you very much for your prayers.

 

[Soverign Grace]

In $ cases like this, you are not trying to convince a family member of any sort of "truth." You are eventually presenting the facts, as you see them, to a court, and they will decide.

I had to present the judge with the truth. The lawyer and sister were both filthy liars. They tried any means they could to force me to sign the paperwork he prepared. They constantly threw lies at me in a legal brief and i had to counter them with the truth. It was hard. It was very upsetting because I don't like to be lied about and they were trying to win. It was a protracted battle and I'll be honest - I hope God punishes both of them hard for the trouble they caused me for almost a year. The lawyer insulted me. Then he charged the estate for his "work" of harassing me for 11 months. I just don't know if I should file a complaint and try to get that $2k back.

 

[Soverign Grace]

First of all YOU are not alone.
Many Converted people have to be subjected to others, who are corrupt...even those who wear the "badge", calling themselves Christians, yet revealing their rotten Fruit.

The TRUTH is what YOU KNOW, what it means to be IN CHRIST, that "you will be", treated just as poorly and unjust, as Jesus was treated.

People who treat you poorly and unjust...
Know exactly what they are doing, and do think they are getting away with what is yours. Cut your loses, and Cut your ties.
And keep them OUT. It is YOUR husband, YOUR children who need to KNOW your position, and why. And a request from YOU to THEM, to honor your position.

It is reasonable. You are due Honor from Your husband and Your children.

What, shall befall those who mistreat and unjustly treat others, SHALL....IF they are "truly Born again"... Lose out on position in Heaven.
And IF NOT "truly Born again"...SUFFER Gods Vengeance, at His appointed time.

Remember, THEY already know the truth, what they think is secret. It simply angers them that you know, and thus they remind you, they are holding with authority, what is yours, and YOU know, "those with authority can wield their authority according to a way, which is Corrupt".
Just saying, you feeling better, by telling them you know the TRUTH, will not be advantages to you.

Sorry for your troubles,
God Bless,
Taken

So you believe that everyone is ultimately responsible for their actions even if they're tempted by Satan. That's what a friend told me. It was a shock to have my sister who I had been close to at one time do something like this, knowing of my severe trials. It was pure selfishness. She was using my family as hers and didn't want me taking them away. She didn't care that she caused severe trouble in my family, she only selfishly thought of her own needs and lied about her motives in trying to take money from my inheritance. So I did cut of the relationship. I was trying to forgive, but she was playing both sides of the fence with the sister who did extreme evil to my family. I don't like when someone plays both sides of the fence. If you're going to be friends with me, then you know how deeply the other person has harmed me, causing heart wrenching pain, and yet you continue to associate with them? That's not what a friend does. Then I'll take my friendship elsewhere. That's what I did and she didn't like it and then weaponized my father's estate to get me back for cutting off the relationship.

To give you an example of a true friend: I told a friend what that law office did and she told me she'll never use them again. So I learned that my sister really wasn't a true friend. It was painful to realize but I had to face it. She didn't care about my feelings or my pain, or the pain she caused my children.''

I think you have a point that they're angry that I pointed out the truth - I called the lawyer out for threatening me. He thought he was going to cower and scare me - something I've learned lawyers do because "they" know the "law." I called his bluff and he got angry. I exposed my sister's motives and she got angry. They thought they were holding all the cards and weren't. I will tell you that victory over them felt good. I still don't think enough happened to them for what they did.

They abused their power - and I've shared how I was victimized by those with a badge. I don't understand why God allowed those things because I thought they were attacks. I'm still trying to figure out why God let them happen. One thing it has done is opened my eyes up to the corruption all around. That corrupt lawyer had a corrupt lawyer in the court "lose" my brief. She pulled several stunts. I have such an urge to move forward and report that corrupt lawyer and court worker. God let me have an honest judge however.

Thanks for your concern. It's hard to know what way to go with things. I try hard to walk close to God yet still get tripped up when it comes to knowing which road to take.

 

[Nancy]

Thank you. I hope I say that prayer again. It has been a very long wait. For me resting is hard - I don't know why. I'm a proactive type so am always trying to do - so it's hard for me to not do anything. But I keep turning to Him over and over. Thank you very much for your prayers.

I myself am very impatient at times, and proactive as well when waiting...trying in my own strength always just made more anxiety for myself though, lol. I still have those days but, nothing at all like it used to be, He has come through always so unexpectedly, and in such a way that I could never have even considered! I will pray for peace in that area specifically for you.