What Do You Think About Religion?

[brionne]

So in your opinion we please God by being nice. In my opinion we please God when we glorify His Son's work on the cross. We ARE NOT to testify about our non-existant sinlessness. We are to testify that Jesus is the Son of God and we are saved by His work on the cross, not ours.

I bet you think you are nice ALL THE TIME. I bet the Pharisees thought they were wonderful as they plotted murder.

as James said

James 2:15-17 "If a brother or a sister is in a naked state and lacking the food sufficient for the day, 16 yet a certain one of YOU says to them: “Go in peace, keep warm and well fed,” but YOU do not give them the necessities for [their] body, of what benefit is it? 17 Thus, too, faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself."

We can talk all we like about Jesus sacrifice and the saving grace, but if we fail to care for our fellowman, then our faith in Jesus is pointless and it will not save us at all.

 

[RichardBurger]

as James said

James 2:15-17 "If a brother or a sister is in a naked state and lacking the food sufficient for the day, 16 yet a certain one of YOU says to them: “Go in peace, keep warm and well fed,” but YOU do not give them the necessities for [their] body, of what benefit is it? 17 Thus, too, faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself."

We can talk all we like about Jesus sacrifice and the saving grace, but if we fail to care for our fellowman, then our faith in Jesus is pointless and it will not save us at all.

You just can't see it can you. You don't do what you say others must do. Do you own a house, a car, do you pick up strangers and give them what you have earned? How many homeless people do you allow to sleep in your house?

I say this because according to you, you are nice and you want others to see how nice you are.

The truth is that you feel everyone else isn't doing enough and you want to make a show of it so that others will think you are doing them. You feel it is your duty to put everyone else back under the law of works while you don't really do what you seem to claim you do. I boast of no personal works. I boast in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

Romans 2:17-23
17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God,
18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law,
19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,
20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law.
21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?
22 You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?
NKJV

Galatians 6:13-14
13 For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.
14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
NKJV

I never have understood the mindset of people that want to tell everyone else how to behave when they don't behave any better than the ones they post with. I think it is a form of boasting about works just as James was boasting about his.

 

[RichardBurger]

I started a thread titled "The Gospel of Grace." It has been locked for sometime now. I don't know why it was locked. No one told me why.

What is amazing about it is that two of the following replies on that thread was about what James said, "faith without works is dead." Satan could not sit back and allow Jesus' work on the cross be center stage. He had to try and place the children of God, and those who wanted to be children of God, back under the law of works. He had to take away the freedom that is in Jesus Christ.

Most do not see this as anything to worry about. But it is. Consider a person who is/has been convicted of his/her sins and wants to claim Jesus' work on the cross as his/her means of salvation. Then comes the works crowd saying, "you can't be a Christian unless you change and do good works worthy of salvation and to show your faith. But the person looks into his/her heart and sees that there has been no change, the same thoughts of sin are still there. So the person gives up and thinks he/she just can't be saved. Many people are going to Hell because of this.

Jesus taught me a lesson many years ago about this very thing and it is why I spend so much of my time on forums and in Bible study classes. But no matter how much I show it to be wrong many will not soften their hearts. I posted the following abouit a tragic story. It is totally true but many just ignored it and continued to write what James said.

A tragic story:

When I was about 25 years old I worked for a factory in Chattanooga, Tennessee. One night when I was working the third shift the security guard came and told me that a man was at the gate wanting to talk to me.

It was a fellow worker at the plant who worked on the first shift and he was very distraught about Christianity. He said he wanted to be a Christian but it just didn't seem to work for him.

I found that he had been talking to some Christians that were telling him that if he was a Christian he would stop sinning. He wanted to stop sinning but he said he couldn't because he still had those fleeting thoughts of sin in his mind and, of course he was told that if you think it you have done it in your mind. He wanted to know what I believed about it.

I told him that Jesus came to save those that could not save themselves; to do for them what they could not do, that to believe in Jesus is to believe in what He did on the cross and to trust that it has saved you.

I also told him that I still sin (I was being honest) and that everyone sins. He said what he had been told by other Christians, that if he sinned he was not a Christian and that I must not be one either since I said I still sinned. A week later this young man killed himself.

It is obvious that this young man had emotional problems. It is also obvious that the Holy Spirit was convicting him of his sins so that he would turn to Jesus. But I saw, first hand, what the message of the self-righteous does to those that are seeking to be a Christian. They don't go in themselves (because they still sin too) and they prevent others that would go in from doing so, all because they want to see themselves as better, and more righteous, than others.

Matt 23:11-13
11 "But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 "And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
(NKJ)

If I show anything to the world let it be the love of Jesus Christ for mankind and what He has done on the cross for all that will place their trust (faith) in Him.

But the religious want to make a show that they do not sin any longer.

Now if you wish to say that I should have told him I no longer sinned in the flesh because God has changed me, then I would be bearing false witness just as those that did it to him and those that do it today.

 

[Paul]

I started a thread titled "The Gospel of Grace." It has been locked for sometime now. I don't know why it was locked. No one told me why.

...

I closed that post because it was turning into an argument that was going to go know where.

Some people refuse to understand James use of the word "work" know matter how much it's explained. And if this post goes that way it will be closed also.

 

[brionne]

I never have understood the mindset of people that want to tell everyone else how to behave when they don't behave any better than the ones they post with. I think it is a form of boasting about works just as James was boasting about his.

wow, thats a mighty call to make. I cant imaging that your judging an inspired writer as a 'boaster' would sit well with God.

I think i'll leave you with the Apostle Johns words and leave it at that.

1 John 3: 16 "By this we have come to know love, because that one surrendered his soul for us; and we are under obligation to surrender [our] souls for [our] brothers. 17 But whoever has this world’s means for supporting life and beholds his brother having need and yet shuts the door of his tender compassions upon him, in what way does the love of God remain in him? 18 Little children, let us love, neither in word nor with the tongue, but in deed and truth."

So James wasnt the only writer to tell us that we must show our love in 'deeds' (works) and John also clarifies for us that we should do for others what is 'within our means'
God expects of us only what we are able to provide...nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Paul]

wow, thats a mighty call to make. I cant imaging that your judging an inspired writer as a 'boaster' would sit well with God.
...

pegg are you claiming your writing is "inspired?" I guess I didn't know that.

 

[brionne]

pegg are you claiming your writing is "inspired?" I guess I didn't know that.

not at all....im saying that I cant imagine that God would be pleased to see someone judge one of his inspired writers as a boaster.

Considering we are told not to even be judging each other, how much more-so should we not be judging an inspired writer?


Unless you dont believe that James is an inspired writer and perhaps his writing is infact boastful? (although i dont believe i've ever read James mention anything about the things he himself had done)

 

[RichardBurger]

I closed that post because it was turning into an argument that was going to go know where.

Some people refuse to understand James use of the word "work" know matter how much it's explained. And if this post goes that way it will be closed also.

Well now I know why. Funny that it is the only one locked for your reason while there are many others that contain arguements as well. But it seems this is your forum so what ever.

 

[Paul]

Well now I know why. Funny that it is the only one locked for your reason while there are many others that contain arguements as well. But it seems this is your forum so what ever.

The "it was turning into an argument that was going to go know where is the important part of the post you quoted. There are a number of closed posts on this forum as there are a number of former posters.

You might not have noticed but I opened that topic again. It can be closed again just as easy.

 

[RichardBurger]

The "it was turning into an argument that was going to go know where is the important part of the post you quoted. There are a number of closed posts on this forum as there are a number of former posters.

You might not have noticed but I opened that topic again. It can be closed again just as easy.

Thanks for the threat. Then close it to spite me. God will be pleased won't He.

 

[fivesense]

It is a fact that no one can COMMAND someone else to love someone. Love doesn't work that way. If you say you are loving others to keep a commandment then you are not really loving them, you are doing something you think will give you a reward and that is not love for others it is self-love.

As I considered the way it will be when the Judge returns and sets up Israel to reign as promised, the commandments He gave to His brethren, as well as the Law, will have to be kept, such as found in His Sermon on the Mount. I imagined the inner turmoil and hyper state of my emotions, trying to contrive for myself what was not there, such as the ability to love others, trying to forestall the quick recompense of the Lord for failing to keep His commands.

In the next age on earth, it will be demanded and produced out of the people of God, Israel, as they proceed to disciple the nations. Failure to comply will result in immediate and inescapable retribution of the just judgment of God, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, and the casting out into outer darkness the violators, away from those who dwell in the Holy City, and are the elect of God.

I praise God for His mercy, grace, and love, to have chosen us in His Son, from before the disruption of the world, to a place of adoption and out of judgment into life.

fivesense

 

[RichardBurger]

As I considered the way it will be when the Judge returns and sets up Israel to reign as promised, the commandments He gave to His brethren, as well as the Law, will have to be kept, such as found in His Sermon on the Mount. I imagined the inner turmoil and hyper state of my emotions, trying to contrive for myself what was not there, such as the ability to love others, trying to forestall the quick recompense of the Lord for failing to keep His commands.

In the next age on earth, it will be demanded and produced out of the people of God, Israel, as they proceed to disciple the nations. Failure to comply will result in immediate and inescapable retribution of the just judgment of God, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, and the casting out into outer darkness the violators, away from those who dwell in the Holy City, and are the elect of God.

I praise God for His mercy, grace, and love, to have chosen us in His Son, from before the disruption of the world, to a place of adoption and out of judgment into life.

fivesense

I think the promise that God's laws will be written in the hearts of the children of Israel is concerning that period of time. They will not love others because it is a commandment. They will love others because it in their new nature.

 

[fivesense]

I think the promise that God's laws will be written in the hearts of the children of Israel is concerning that period of time. They will not love others because it is a commandment. They will love others because it in their new nature.

You seem to be more astute than I. It does seem a pity though, having it superimposed from on High then, rather than now. Obtaining obedience through suffering, exactly like our Lord, and the lot we have as well, won't be afforded to them. Kinda like a "McObedience" deal. Still, the glory of God is the object, and not the whining on my part. I well appreciate your insight.
fivesense

 

[RichardBurger]

You seem to be more astute than I. It does seem a pity though, having it superimposed from on High then, rather than now. Obtaining obedience through suffering, exactly like our Lord, and the lot we have as well, won't be afforded to them. Kinda like a "McObedience" deal. Still, the glory of God is the object, and not the whining on my part. I well appreciate your insight.
fivesense

I don't look at it as being superimposed. It look at it as having our sinful nature removed. I certainly hope, that when I am in heaven, I don't have the same sinful thoughts that pass through my mind as I do now. LOL

 

[fivesense]

I don't look at it as being superimposed. It look at it as having our sinful nature removed. I certainly hope, that when I am in heaven, I don't have the same sinful thoughts that pass through my mind as I do now. LOL

That will be certainly dealt with, the sinful heart. Man has been given a nature by reason of God's spirit providing life in a body made of dust. The union of spirit and body produces a soul which also demands a nature. The Scriptures never assign man a "sinful nature", a sinful heart, yes, but the nature is not corrupted, it is the heart that corrupts the nature. If you do a concordant study of the word nature, it will be found that it includes conscience, which Scripture says is where the issues of right and wrong are determined. Much is involved in the heart and blood and soul of man, and the things that issue from them. But corruption is never assigned to the human nature, in fact, the opposite is spoken.

The reason I say "superimposed" is because of the spirit of God which produced the human spirit becomes quickened at resurrection and is the force which causes us to stand up on two feet and live. Then that life becomes subjected to superabundance of Holy Spirit life from the hand of the Life-giving Spirit, Christ Jesus. With our fleshly bodies discarded, and our souls starting afresh with a human spirit untainted by sensations and lusts, the imposition of another portion of life, that Holy Spirit in its fulness, we become receptacles and vessels of that operation. It qualifies as a supernatural act, and it comes from outside of us from a Higher Spirit. I know this is heady, but it is the glory of God and is apprehendable to a degree. Until it happens, the insufficiency of language will alway mark how little we truly understand.

It will be a dynamic time, free from fleshly encumbrances and thoughts, Spirit-filled, Spirit-led, able to obey the Lord instantly without self getting in the way, as He sends us forth to command obedience from the celestials that keep us ever oppressed at this time in their alliance with the Slanderer. I will enjoy being there with you.

fivesense

 

[RichardBurger]

That will be certainly dealt with, the sinful heart. Man has been given a nature by reason of God's spirit providing life in a body made of dust. The union of spirit and body produces a soul which also demands a nature. The Scriptures never assign man a "sinful nature", a sinful heart, yes, but the nature is not corrupted, it is the heart that corrupts the nature. If you do a concordant study of the word nature, it will be found that it includes conscience, which Scripture says is where the issues of right and wrong are determined. Much is involved in the heart and blood and soul of man, and the things that issue from them. But corruption is never assigned to the human nature, in fact, the opposite is spoken.

The reason I say "superimposed" is because of the spirit of God which produced the human spirit becomes quickened at resurrection and is the force which causes us to stand up on two feet and live. Then that life becomes subjected to superabundance of Holy Spirit life from the hand of the Life-giving Spirit, Christ Jesus. With our fleshly bodies discarded, and our souls starting afresh with a human spirit untainted by sensations and lusts, the imposition of another portion of life, that Holy Spirit in its fulness, we become receptacles and vessels of that operation. It qualifies as a supernatural act, and it comes from outside of us from a Higher Spirit. I know this is heady, but it is the glory of God and is apprehendable to a degree. Until it happens, the insufficiency of language will alway mark how little we truly understand.

It will be a dynamic time, free from fleshly encumbrances and thoughts, Spirit-filled, Spirit-led, able to obey the Lord instantly without self getting in the way, as He sends us forth to command obedience from the celestials that keep us ever oppressed at this time in their alliance with the Slanderer. I will enjoy being there with you.

fivesense

I see that the nature of flesh is to survive. It will want to survive no matter the cost. It is the Holy Spirit that allows us to see this and know that God's grace is sufficient for us.

 

[fivesense]

I see that the nature of flesh is to survive. It will want to survive no matter the cost. It is the Holy Spirit that allows us to see this and know that God's grace is sufficient for us.

This is a truth that I found great understanding of grace through. Sin will be committed, and offenses will come and it is impossible to reform or conform the flesh. For that reason, God justifies the ungodly in His mercy, and though His Son offers justification anyway. It is and always will be hostile to the truth, til the spirit be removed and death ends its dominance, and Life is superimposed upon us. It is wonderful to have God's Holy Spirit to know liberty and to realize it comes to us gratuitously, with no strings attached.

fivesense