What does it mean "there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus".....

[thelord's_pearl]

Thank you, Phoneman777

 

[thelord's_pearl]

Thank you, Phoneman777

I don't think I'll ever depart from this truth. I stand in this right now. I feel I read and know the NT very well while I know the OT not so well.

 

[Gospel Believer]

In another version, it says "depart from Me, you who break God's law!" What do others say about this? @Phoneman777 @robert derrick @Gospel Believer @Jim B

I've said many times that the "Two" don't replace the "Ten", they summarize the "Ten" because if you love God, you'll keep the first four, and if you love your neighbor, the last six. Therefore, "lawlessness" refers to, among other things, willfully and presumptuously breaking the Ten Commandments.

Moreover, those who argue this passage proves Once Saved Always Saved (because, they claim, only those Jesus never knew - and thus were never saved - will be told to "depart") have no argument at all:
The passage does not say "all in that day say unto Me, Lord Lord..." -- it says "many" in that day will say unto Me, Lord Lord..." and "many" means something totally different than "all". Therefore, while there will be "many" told to "depart" after they plead "Lord Lord", there will also be those right in there with them who will be told to "depart" that Jesus knew full well, like those who do as the Unmerciful Servant.

Scripture plainly states that Jesus “ KNOWS HIS SHEEP!” If Jesus says , “ I NEVER Knew them , it’s because they are NOT sheep , they are Goats—— Goats That were Never in His Flock, and that “ Flock” is 100% Saved people....The Context here is about False Prophets and these are the “ Workers Of Iniquity” That May have worked “ miracles”, but they were counterfeit miracles.....They are those who never got Saved because they never knew God’s Will and never obeyed it! John 6:40 clearly states what God's Will is——- “ It is the Father’s Will That all will look to the Son and Believe in Him so that they shall obtain Eternal Life”

These Self- Righteous False Prophets Never “ looked to the Son” for their Salvation —- they were too busy trying to establish , “their own” Righteousness which was made perfectly clear by all of the Boasting they did about all the things “ They” did as opposed to worshipping Jesus and giving HIM the credit and the Glory for their Salvation because of what * HE* did !

One does not have to be a full- fledged worker of phony miracles to hear the words “ Depart From Me,I Never Knew you” .....If you think you are going to Heaven because of all the “ good stuff that you do”, ( I.e. your “ law- Keeping” Performance ) , you are just as damned as a False Prophet is.....

 

[Keturah]

Jesus himself said he did not come to the world to CONDEMN it but for it's salvation through him.

All one has to do is repent, believe, turn away from sin and trust and lean on God.

There is CONVICTION of the Holy Spirit to correct our path and if that is ignored there is chastisement from God to correct!

 

[Phoneman777]

Scripture plainly states that Jesus “ KNOWS HIS SHEEP!” If Jesus says , “ I NEVER Knew them , it’s because they are NOT sheep , they are Goats—— Goats That were Never in His Flock, and that “ Flock” is 100% Saved people....The Context here is about False Prophets and these are the “ Workers Of Iniquity” That May have worked “ miracles”, but they were counterfeit miracles.....They are those who never got Saved because they never knew God’s Will and never obeyed it! John 6:40 clearly states what God's Will is——- “ It is the Father’s Will That all will look to the Son and Believe in Him so that they shall obtain Eternal Life”

These Self- Righteous False Prophets Never “ looked to the Son” for their Salvation —- they were too busy trying to establish , “their own” Righteousness which was made perfectly clear by all of the Boasting they did about all the things “ They” did as opposed to worshipping Jesus and giving HIM the credit and the Glory for their Salvation because of what * HE* did !

One does not have to be a full- fledged worker of phony miracles to hear the words “ Depart From Me,I Never Knew you” .....If you think you are going to Heaven because of all the “ good stuff that you do”, ( I.e. your “ law- Keeping” Performance ) , you are just as damned as a False Prophet is.....

Regarding Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus didn't say "ALL" who are commanded to depart will be those He never knew.

If He did say "ALL" then the OSAS crowd would have in this passage irrefutable proof for OSAS.

But, He didn't say "ALL" --- He said "MANY".

Which means there will be OTHERS AMONG THESE "MANY" that He will command to depart, namely, some that He knew full well but turned away from Him impenitently.

The OSAS crowd needs to look elsewhere for "proof" for OSAS because, as I've shown, it's not found here.

 

[Adam]

Who specifically are whom you are judging? How do you know who knows Jesus and who doesn't?

Knowing Jesus = understanding the message of universal forgiveness and benevolence. Some people just use Jesus' name to appear righteous, but don't believe in the teachings. I can't say who is good or who is bad or how much you have to believe and how much you have to understand; but I think the belief that there is a universal benevolence, and the willingness to accept it, is essential to finding your way to God.

 

[thelord's_pearl]

@Gospel Believer, what do you say about the Parable of the Ten Virgins in connection with OSAS and in connection on "there's no condemnation on those who are in Christ Jesus, who walks not by the flesh, but by the Spirit? You skipped that.

@Phoneman777, in what you've said about there's no condemnation on those who walk perfectly in the sight of Christ Jesus, what would walking "perfectly" entail? What does walking "perfectly" in the sight of Jesus mean to you in your opinion?
The reason I ask you this is because earlier I said I don't think we can ever walk sinlessly perfectly such as in our thoughts or if someone yells at us, we might react and respond wrong, but 'practising' walking "perfectly" is do-able where we put the effort and that makes a difference. Thanks a lot guys!

 

[Gospel Believer]

@Gospel Believer, what do you say about the Parable of the Ten Virgins in connection with OSAS and in connection on "there's no condemnation on those who are in Christ Jesus, who walks not by the flesh, but by the Spirit? You skipped that.

@Phoneman777, in what you've said about there's no condemnation on those who walk perfectly in the sight of Christ Jesus, what would walking "perfectly" entail? What does walking "perfectly" in the sight of Jesus mean to you in your opinion?
The reason I ask you this is because earlier I said I don't think we can ever walk sinlessly perfectly such as in our thoughts or if someone yells at us, we might react and respond wrong. Thanks a lot guys!

Of what I have read and researched, the “ qualifying” part of this verse, that part that says “ who walk not by the flesh but by the Spirit” is not in the older manuscripts but was “ added” by the translators.....if that is true ,it means absolutely nothing to me.....many people , and quite possibly these translators , are simply afraid of Grace, don’t believe in it fully and felt an obligation to not let the verse speak for itself.....

A saved person “ LIVES” in the Spirit , but because of that Old Adamic Spirit That STILL exists , that one that is “ not subject to the Power Of God , and neither indeed CAN be”, that Old Sin Nature That , in Times Of weakness and foolishness, gives in to “ the sin that SO EASILY besets us”......we “ live” in that Spirit, but we don’t always “ WALK” in it.......

If “ living in the Spirit” means that we conquer sin after we get Saved, and never give in to our weak flesh, why does God talk so much about His Chastisement? Do people get Chastised for NOT Sinning? If we never cater to the Flesh, once we are Saved, why does God tell us to go to His “ Throne Of Grace” in our time of need? We are not only told to “ go” there after we commit a sin—- we are told to go there “ BOLDLY”....... that “ Boldness” is in direct proportion to your Faith in the Shed Blood.....I ain’t got much to offer God , but rest assured—— I DO have THAT! And God Loves it. He hates the Sin itself , but how He must love it when we follow His Remedy....

With all due respect to those translators , I find myself being more like Paul—— I do not “ hold back the Grace of God “ .....I bask in it! I never try to take advantage of it , but I am sure glad that it is there ! If mere sinful men are required to forgive “ 7 times 70”, just think what is available when it comes to the forgiveness of God.....

People confuse “ grace” with “ leniency”...... some self- Righteous religionists out there always manage to get knots in their panties by just “ thinking” that somebody , somewhere just might “ sin and get away with it !”........ Relax all you Legalists in the crowd .....God has seen that nobody can do wrong and “ get by”......Believers can be Chastised for their sins —- Chastised to the point of dropping dead in their shoes.....but ones Salvation remains intact.....it was a “ Gift”, remember?

Grace needs no qualifications , and if the translators thought that they had to “ help God out” because he omitted those conditions that “ they” deemed necessary , remember what God had to say about anybody that “ added” to His Word .....it ain’t pretty....

 

[thelord's_pearl]

Of what I have read and researched, the “ qualifying” part of this verse, that part that says “ who walk not by the flesh but by the Spirit” is not in the older manuscripts but was “ added” by the translators.....if that is true ,it means absolutely nothing to me.....many people , and quite possibly these translators , are simply afraid of Grace, don’t believe in it fully and felt an obligation to not let the verse speak for itself.....

A saved person “ LIVES” in the Spirit , but because of that Old Adamic Spirit That STILL exists , that one that is “ not subject to the Power Of God , and neither indeed CAN be”, that Old Sin Nature That , in Times Of weakness and foolishness, gives in to “ the sin that SO EASILY besets us”......we “ live” in that Spirit, but we don’t always “ WALK” in it.......

If “ living in the Spirit” means that we conquer sin after we get Saved, and never give in to our weak flesh, why does God talk so much about His Chastisement? Do people get Chastised for NOT Sinning? If we never cater to the Flesh, once we are Saved, why does God tell us to go to His “ Throne Of Grace” in our time of need? We are not only told to “ go” there after we commit a sin—- we are told to go there “ BOLDLY”....... that “ Boldness” is in direct proportion to your Faith in the Shed Blood.....I ain’t got much to offer God , but rest assured—— I DO have THAT! And God Loves it. He hates the Sin itself , but how He must love it when we follow His Remedy....

With all due respect to those translators , I find myself being more like Paul—— I do not “ hold back the Grace of God “ .....I bask in it! I never try to take advantage of it , but I am sure glad that it is there ! If mere sinful men are required to forgive “ 7 times 70”, just think what is available when it comes to the forgiveness of God.....

People confuse “ grace” with “ leniency”...... some self- Righteous religionists out there always manage to get knots in their panties by just “ thinking” that somebody , somewhere just might “ sin and get away with it !”........ Relax all you Legalists in the crowd .....God has seen that nobody can do wrong and “ get by”......Believers can be Chastised for their sins —- Chastised to the point of dropping dead in their shoes.....but ones Salvation remains intact.....it was a “ Gift”, remember?

Grace needs no qualifications , and if the translators thought that they had to “ help God out” because he omitted those conditions that “ they” deemed necessary , remember what God had to say about anybody that “ added” to His Word .....it ain’t pretty....

I was talking about the Parable of the Ten Virgins, for example.

 

[Gospel Believer]

I was talking about the Parable of the Ten Virgins, for example.

Could you please be more detailed in precisely what you want me to comment on? Thanks...

 

[Phoneman777]

@Gospel Believer, what do you say about the Parable of the Ten Virgins in connection with OSAS and in connection on "there's no condemnation on those who are in Christ Jesus, who walks not by the flesh, but by the Spirit? You skipped that.

@Phoneman777, in what you've said about there's no condemnation on those who walk perfectly in the sight of Christ Jesus, what would walking "perfectly" entail? What does walking "perfectly" in the sight of Jesus mean to you in your opinion?
The reason I ask you this is because earlier I said I don't think we can ever walk sinlessly perfectly such as in our thoughts or if someone yells at us, we might react and respond wrong, but 'practising' walking "perfectly" is do-able where we put the effort and that makes a difference. Thanks a lot guys!

"Walk with the Lord" in Scripture is a colloquialism for "walking obediently" which naturally is the antitheses of "walking after the flesh" or "walking in sin".

The Bible differentiates between the "Just Man" who "falls" into sin and the "Presumptuous Man" who deliberately climbs a ladder down to it and refuses the uplifting hand of God. Both may sit side by side in church and raise their praise hands high, but the one is assured of God's mercy, while the other is going to hell...because the one who "rises up again" and the one who "remains guilty of the great transgression" prove by their outward actions if they truly have love for God in their heart or hatred for God in their heart.

 

[Gospel Believer]

"Walk with the Lord" in Scripture is a colloquialism for "walking obediently" which naturally is the antitheses of "walking after the flesh" or "walking in sin".

The Bible differentiates between the "Just Man" who "falls" into sin and the "Presumptuous Man" who deliberately climbs a ladder down to it and refuses the uplifting hand of God. Both may sit side by side in church and raise their praise hands high, but the one is assured of God's mercy, while the other is going to hell...because the one who "rises up again" and the one who "remains guilty of the great transgression" prove by their outward actions if they truly have love for God in their heart or hatred for God in their heart.

The only ones that receive “ Mercy” are those people with Contrite hearts that see the “ need” for Mercy, and then humbly ask fo it......

“ ANYBODY that ASKS for Mercy shall receive it” .....I’ve had “ that” covered for over 50 years....A poor, Wretched Sinner like me that has a Contite Heart has more hope than the Proud and Delusional man that thinks he is a “ Good” man who sees no need for God's Mercy....

Ever read the story about the Proud, self- Righteous Pharisee and the Sinful Publican who visited the Temple? I identify with the Publican with the Contrite Heart.....how about you?

Luke 18:9-14

 

[thelord's_pearl]

Could you please be more detailed in precisely what you want me to comment on? Thanks...

this:

@Gospel Believer, what do you say about the Parable of the Ten Virgins in connection with OSAS and in connection on "there's no condemnation on those who are in Christ Jesus, who walks not by the flesh, but by the Spirit? You skipped that.

 

[thelord's_pearl]

"Walk with the Lord" in Scripture is a colloquialism for "walking obediently" which naturally is the antitheses of "walking after the flesh" or "walking in sin".

The Bible differentiates between the "Just Man" who "falls" into sin and the "Presumptuous Man" who deliberately climbs a ladder down to it and refuses the uplifting hand of God. Both may sit side by side in church and raise their praise hands high, but the one is assured of God's mercy, while the other is going to hell...because the one who "rises up again" and the one who "remains guilty of the great transgression" prove by their outward actions if they truly have love for God in their heart or hatred for God in their heart.

Yes there's a difference in the one who intentionally sins without trying. Do you mean by "falling" into sin things such as your thoughts that go by throughout the day? And I want to say I hope no one here thinks I'm a tramp when I said the sin of the flesh desire is one that can be really hard to overcome. What I was talking about was that I like the praise of men in one way, it gives me self esteem and that's how I learned it but I also like the praise of God and realize that if you delight yourself in the Lord, He will give you the desires of your heart.

 

[Gospel Believer]

this:

Post #148

The OSAS part? * NO CONDEMNATION means exactly what it says....If you have the Holy Spirit in you you are Saved——- and you are Saved Forever...... ” NOTHING IN CREATION”, the Bible says, can take you from His Grip.......That means that not even “ YOU” can do it......argue all you want—- YOU are a part of God’s “ Creation”.....

OSAS Rules! Conditional Salvation drools.....

 

[thelord's_pearl]

Post #148

The OSAS part? * NO CONDEMNATION means exactly what it says....If you have the Holy Spirit in you you are Saved——- and you are Saved Forever...... ” NOTHING IN CREATION”, the Bible says, can take you from His Grip.......That means that not even “ YOU” can do it......argue all you want—- YOU are a part of God’s “ Creation”.....

OSAS Rules! Conditional Salvation drools.....

How did you get "OSAS" and "there's no condemnation in Christ Jesus" in the Parable of the Ten Virgins? Can you explain in detail? Thanks 'cause I rule out OSAS and there is condemnation Christ Jesus.. in the Parable of the Ten Virgins.

 

[-Phil]

What is unconditional and infinite can not condemn as there is nothing to condemn.

 

[robert derrick]

In another version, it says "depart from Me, you who break God's law!" What do others say about this? @Phoneman777 @robert derrick @Gospel Believer @Jim B

When Jesus says get away from me, there is no arguing about it. If the heaven and earth will flee from the face of the Lord at His command, so will angels and men.

The OSAS teaching of 'believers' no more being condemned, while doing the same unrighteousness and sins of the world, is false.

The simple truth is that Jesus came to destroy those works of the flesh from our lives, not to destroy the law nor the righteous judgment of God upon them which do such things.

Whosoever is committing sin is transgressing also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

He that is committing sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Whosoever is born of God is not committing sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot be sinning, because he is born of God.

The corruption of Scripture by fantaical OSAS, is that they cannot be judged as sinning, because they say they have faith, and God is living in them.

God's judgment is the righteous judgment of now, not yesterday, nor tomorrow.

Our faith and love for God, is only as good as what we are doing now, not what we say we have, are, or are doing.

No one doing righteousness of God with a pure heart, can be a child of the devil, and no one doing unrighteousness of the devil with an unclean heart, can be born of God.

Many Christians think. that once Jesus is recieved into our heart, and we are born again, that His Spirit is somehow forever trapped in our hearts, even if we continue lusting with the heart, and doing the works of the devil with the flesh.

They act like God can't come and go as He please, in the moment and twinkling of the eye.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

It doesn't take God an half hour to enter into the heart of them that repent and confess His name for forgiveness of sins. And it doesn't take God a half hour of sinning, for Him to depart from a wicked heart.

Simply put, the Scripture says we cannot have fellowship with Christ and the devil, and people who think they can, are only eating at the table of Belial, because Jesus is not at all there 'supping' with the devil and his children sinning with the world.

Nothing in any person's mind nor vain imagination, whether by doctrinal fiat or not, can change that simple truth.

God is a righteous judge, and has no respect of persons: They which are doing such things now, are not now inheriting the kingdom of God, because the everlasting kingdom of Christ is not within them.

 

[robert derrick]

And actually I'd like to say that I don't think it's possible for all sin to be diminished, some of it has to be by grace in faith in Christ Jesus, such as our thoughts or

Tempting thoughts are not sinning, and Jesus was tempted with all such thoughts the devil has ever put in the mind of men.

Not resisting the devil's thoughts and receiving them into the heart to lust for sin, is when we sin spiritually, before ever doing so physically.

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

We are to cleanse our spirit and our lives through Christ, and keep ourselves clean with Him, by doing the same resisting of the devil He did without sinning.

The perfectionism doctrine, that tempting inglorious thoughts are sinning, is false, and is made up by people that are lusting and sinning with the flesh, in order to justify their sinning as inevitable imperfection.

if someone yells at us, we might react wrong,

That, however is not justified:

Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously.

Returning curse for curse and blow for blow, is not the righteousness of God.

For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath.

We can be angry without sinning with our mouths nor deeds.

but other than that, most or all other sins can be overcome by our works through faith in Christ Jesus.

True

This is sounding confusing, isn't it?

Only if we are not making a right dividing between what God says sin is, and what man thinks sin is.

Anyhow, I haven't read the bible for the second time so I think only when you've read the Word properly will the Holy Spirit speak to you the truth

That is why we are to go by conscience, when knowledge is not enough.

but so far I definitely know that OSAS is not right by the Parable of the Ten Virgins and I think the 5 Christians who were foolish were not "prepared" for Christ's return, that's why they lost their salvation so that good deeds/works in faith in Christ Jesus is needed.

That is why we especially keep our conscience pure, when false doctrine of 'learned' Christians, is being taught to sear the conscience.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

When someone tries telling you that mature Christianity is learning how not to be condemned, while do that which God condemns in Scripture, then let them alone to their own seared conscience, and make sure your conscience and heart remains pure and clean in Christ Jesus.

If we sin after being forgiven of past sins, then all is not lost, for we still have an advocate in Jesus Christ to confess sinning the same as when we first came to Him, and be forgiven of that past sin.

He commands us to do so with others, and so He will do the same, even if 70 times 7, so long as we are not mocking His grace and the cost in blood of His forgiveness.

But there is no forgiveness for them that tell themselves they are already forgiven and not condemned, while sinning again with the world.

That's because they have no godly sorrow to confess and be forgiven. That is what John calls it sinning a sin unto death, that Christians aren't even to pray for others about.

How can we pray for another, and Christ be an advocate for anyone, whose heart tells them they have no need for forgiveness, even while doing the sinful works of the flesh?

 

[thelord's_pearl]

Tempting thoughts are not sinning, and Jesus was tempted with all such thoughts the devil has ever put in the mind of men.

Not resisting the devil's thoughts and receiving them into the heart to lust for sin, is when we sin spiritually, before ever doing so physically.

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

We are to cleanse our spirit and our lives through Christ, and keep ourselves clean with Him, by doing the same resisting of the devil He did without sinning.

The perfectionism doctrine, that tempting inglorious thoughts are sinning, is false, and is made up by people that are lusting and sinning with the flesh, in order to justify their sinning as inevitable imperfection.

That, however is not justified:

Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously.

Returning curse for curse and blow for blow, is not the righteousness of God.

For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath.

We can be angry without sinning with our mouths nor deeds.



True



Only if we are not making a right dividing between what God says sin is, and what man thinks sin is.



That is why we are to go by conscience, when knowledge is not enough.



That is why we especially keep our conscience pure, when false doctrine of 'learned' Christians, is being taught to sear the conscience.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

When someone tries telling you that mature Christianity is learning how not to be condemned, while do that which God condemns in Scripture, then let them alone to their own seared conscience, and make sure your conscience and heart remains pure and clean in Christ Jesus.

If we sin after being forgiven of past sins, then all is not lost, for we still have an advocate in Jesus Christ to confess sinning the same as when we first came to Him, and be forgiven of that past sin.

He commands us to do so with others, and so He will do the same, even if 70 times 7, so long as we are not mocking His grace and the cost in blood of His forgiveness.

But there is no forgiveness for them that tell themselves they are already forgiven and not condemned, while sinning again with the world.

That's because they have no godly sorrow to confess and be forgiven. That is what John calls it sinning a sin unto death, that Christians aren't even to pray for others about.

How can we pray for another, and Christ be an advocate for anyone, whose heart tells them they have no need for forgiveness, even while doing the sinful works of the flesh?

I love your post! You made things so clear!!!! Thank you, robert derrick! :)