What does it mean "there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus".....
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If we truly are in Christ Jesus, we will not fulfill the deeds of the flesh.
"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit."
Romans 8:1
I'm not sure where you are coming from with "repent or perish" although, it is true if we do not repent of our sins, we will not be saved so, I see no contradiction there.. But He gives us so many chances to turn to Him, we don't know when our last day on Earth will be so...today IS the day of salvation! :)
Hope others will chime in here and give their take.
Mantis
Well-Known Member
Because if you haven’t repented you are not in Christ. No contradiction.
I will be repenting now bc of the Word of God and truth and for salvation and that Christ wants what's best for us. We should only trust in the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit and not a lie.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
To be forgiven does not mean we either have disposed of the Sin Nature or stop sinning entirely. It means that based on our repentance from living a life of sin we are granted salvation on the basis of our choice to live in Christ.
To choose to live in Christ does not mean we will live in him perfectly. It just means that we have chosen to embrace Christ as our proper way of life, designating him the basis of all our choices, whether we succeed at all times or not. It is the choice *to make him Lord* that saves us--not the ability to do so at all times.
It is casting our vote for Christ that becomes acceptable for the Lord to invite us into heaven. All God wants of us is our choice to live with him forever. It is not a choice for paradise, but more, a choice for him as the definition of our paradise.
Let's say a man chooses a woman to be his bride. He is not promising to be a perfect husband, but rather, simply determining his future to live with his wife until death do they part. It is his choice for her, when it is real, that makes the marriage final.
It is not the promise to always be perfect in the way he treats her. The marriage is not stopped because he is flawed during the period of their engagement. The marriage is settled by their mutual choice for each other.
What gives us cover for our sins is this choice for Christ as our God, In doing so with sincerity we are granted the experience of Rebirth, the means of regularly walking in relationship with Christ. All men have access to this, but not all men choose to do this. Some simply choose for a spiritual experience, for good works, or for the hope of eternal paradise. But they really need to *choose him!*
We are not covered for our sins on the basis we repent and never again sin. Repentance is the choice to return to a walk with God, and not just a choice to do good again. When we choose to do good we are essentially choosing to walk with God again. But are we choosing to simply "be good," or are we choosing to return to a proper relationship with God--something that we have already chosen?
If we have already chosen God as our life-long partner, repentance is merely the choice to return to this commitment and to this relationship. Forgiveness is without question.
There may not always be instant feelings of bliss, or a lack of consequences--consequences for choices to sin are very real, despite our salvation. Only God can undo them, if He does so at all in this lifetime. We should just trust in God's love, and cast our burdens on Him, because he is a kind God.
People who have only accepted the "gifts of Christ," but not his own Person, can also be forgiven when they repent of their sin and stop doing the wrong thing they're doing. But for them this does not mean Salvation. It is only God's willingness to return them to living right, and not the cancellation of the sin debt as far as receiving Eternal Life. That only comes in our choice for *him.*
In sum, your sense of "repent or perish" is the Salvation Question: do we accept Christ himself as a person, or do we merely accept good things that he offers us? Forgiveness comes, or release from condemnation, when we receive Christ's *person.* In him we are viewed as liberated from the guilt of sin because in him was found no sin. Our righteousness comes from his record when we choose him as our Savior and Lord.
This choice for *person,* instead of mere reward is an essential distinction in the removal of condemnation. It is not necessarily a removal of the *feeling* of condemnation. When we sin, we will feel condemned.
Rather, the release from condemnation is being expressed by Paul in the *legal sense* that our choice for Christ removes us from *eternal* condemnation. Whether we *feel* condemned or not, our choice for him is inviolable--we have indeed been liberated from *eternal* condemnation in the act of having chosen him.
I've gone to lengths to try to explain this because your concern, as expressed, has been mine. It is a very deep problem. I hope this begins to help?
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
I see that Paul in latter part of Romans 7 is using himself as a Jew who lived under the OT as an example of how hard that law was to live under. To be justified by that OT law, it required the Jew to do the wotk in keeping all of it flawlessly perfect....the Jew had to continue in all things (Gal 3:10) or be cursed....the law showed no mercy. Under that OT law one was a debtor to the whole law (Gal 5:3).
Paul proves that Gentile and Jew are sinners (Romans chapters 1&2) and sinners are in need of justification. And in Romans 3, Paul begins talking about the OT law given to the Jews and how it was an advantage for the Jews over the Gentile but he shows that law could not justify the Jew for it required perfect law keeping of all the law therefore that OT law could not justify the sinner leaving the Jew no better than the Gentile...both under sin Rom 3:9. That perfect law keeping of tha OT law kept one from being justified in God's sight (Rom 3:20). But in Rom 3:21 Paul says "But now apart from the law"...Paul is saying now there is way to be justified apart from the OT law and its required perfect lawkeeping and that way is an obedient faith as Abraham an David possessed.
Under the NT, an obedient faith is how one gets into Christ where there is no condemnation as there was under the OT law. Paul says but "now" (Rom 8:1) under the NT law, as opposed to the OT law, there is no such condemnation in Christ.
Hi Randy Kluth,
I'm so sorry to hear that you are suffering the same thing, hardship of repentance.
I think I'm feeling better about repenting now but now I know another sin I should totally repent from as well. I will do my best.
So I also think there's a sin in which the Holy Spirit prompts you not to do, but you don't trust in God and believe the "worldly" Satanic lie and then sin, but if you repent of this then there's no condemnation of those who are in Christ sin who walketh not in the flesh but by the Spirit.
Then there's the sin in which you're under pressure so you accidentally sin but then you repent right away so you're redirected so you're covered, there's no condemnation for you in Christ Jesus...
Then there's the sin that you can't help but 'feel', but you don't 'act' on it, then you're covered, there's no condemnation for you in Christ Jesus, etc (the whole verse).
Then there's a sin that's tempting but it seems like God can provide a way out of it, meaning it becomes not that tempting (you can pray about it), then you can probably stop it, then there's no condemnation for you in Christ Jesus... if you stop it.
In conclusion, I still think repentance is a constant struggle but it says in the Bible, All things are possible with God. I hope this helps.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Yes, it always helps to hear an honest message. As you say, any sense of liberation from condemnation is a *process.* Sometimes we feel we have it, and at other times not.
As you say, the answer is always to turn to Christ, to understand his ways are better than our ways. But being of a sinful nature we can't completely stop sinful thoughts--the best we can do is to not act on those thoughts. Our deliverance is future. But we can experience the peace of salvation now, as we continue to persevere in righteousness.
My whole message to you is that our peace comes from the legal basis of Christ's atonement. Whether we *feel* it or not, it is our choice for him as a *person* that gives us certainty when we are so flaky. It is actually more than a simple choice--it is a choice for who he is. Returning to this revelation may help, or not. ;)
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
Rom 8:1 . .There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in
Christ Jesuswho walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
A portion of the verse is stricken to indicate the KJV's editors took the liberty
to pencil it into the their translation, i.e. it's not in the Greek manuscript.
That being the case, then Rom 8:1 is supposed to say:
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus."
* Jesus is sort of like Noah's ark. While all hell was breaking loose outside,
everybody inside was safe and secure.
_
Rom 8:1 . .There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in
Christ Jesus
A portion of the verse is stricken to indicate the KJV's editors took the liberty
to pencil it into the their translation, i.e. it's not in the Greek manuscript.
That being the case, then Rom 8:1 is supposed to say:
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus."
* Jesus is sort of like Noah's ark. While all hell was breaking loose outside,
everybody inside was safe and secure.
_
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
I don't know what verses you are quoting. I do know Jesus is always trying to help us, and I do know that sin brings trouble into our lives.
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
There is no condemnation, where there is no sinning and trespassing, neither spiritually nor bodily.
We repent of evil thoughts first, that we may repent of doing evil in word or deed.
Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
The great and precious promises in Christ Jesus, begin with His faith, power, and help to do so.
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
the "repent or perish" I just briefly saw in someone else's thread but I think it's really there in the Bible, I just don't know in what context it was written though I think it might've been written to Christians vs non-Christians, I'm not sure!
I just had to write, I think I will always be condemned in Christ since I find it hard not to walk in the flesh in certain areas. For example, can I buy new clothes even if I still have stained old clothes? lol, this is not the only fleshly area I have trouble with, there's another area too.
Thanks for replies.
I just had to write, I think I will always be condemned in Christ since I find it hard not to walk in the flesh in certain areas. For example, can I buy new clothes even if I still have stained old clothes? lol, this is not the only fleshly area I have trouble with, there's another area too.
Thanks for replies.It starts in election, God chose a people in Christ Jesus before the foundation Eph 1:4 and consequently by virtue of that, they arent condemned by God since they are in Christ.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
In one sense all of humanity is 'in Christ'....we need to see it, however, being 'out of Christ' is something we choose....consciously or unconsciously.....by our heart space.
The good news tells us we are forgiven; the question is, will we believe it? If we do we remain.....and if we do believe it our lives will bear testimony to it and we will place ourselves out.
If we do not believe it but think we do our lives will also bear witness to it.....in a pretence
Moses set up a serpent on a pole for people to look at and be healed from snake bite. How could one not look? it would have been the news of the community. Only those who deliberately choose not to.....they disbelieved ....and they died
So, the expression 'in Christ' has two different ways of understanding/seeing it......both are valid
How wonderful to know that what God expects us to be He has enabled us to be. Last time we saw that God has sent His Holy Spirit to come and live in us so that we now can be empowered to do His will. Now, when we fail to allow the Spirit to control us, and we put ourselves back under law and the confidence of our flesh, then we sin as chapter 7 showed us.the "repent or perish" I just briefly saw in someone else's thread but I think it's really there in the Bible, I just don't know in what context it was written though I think it might've been written to Christians vs non-Christians, I'm not sure!
I just had to write, I think I will always be condemned in Christ since I find it hard not to walk in the flesh in certain areas. For example, can I buy new clothes even if I still have stained old clothes? lol, this is not the only fleshly area I have trouble with, there's another area too.
But when we sin, we are not to condemn ourselves. In Ro 8:1-note, Paul tells us, "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." The word "condemnation" is the word for the sentence itself, and there is no sentence of eternal death to those who are in Christ.
Romans 8:2-note: "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh." We are now free from the penalty of sin and the power of sin. The "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" supersedes the "law of sin and of death".
Remember I gave an example using the law of gravity. When you see a big 747 sitting on the runway, and you realize it weighs more than you can comprehend, if you apply the law of gravity to that fact, then it is impossible for that plane to fly. But, when you look at the power of it’s engines, and watch it take off, you realize that there is a higher law in force, which does not deny the law of gravity but it simply supersedes it. The law of sin and death still works in our flesh, but is superseded by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ.
It is the Spirit that now fulfills the "requirement of the law" in us. We read in Romans 8:4, "in order that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." What is the requirement of the law? How could we sum it up? Look at Romans 13:9-note: "For this, ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not covet,’ and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’"
The flip side is in Gal 5:22-note, Gal 5:23-note: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law."
Well, Ro 8:1-4 has shown us the role of the Holy Spirit, which is to accomplish in us what the flesh could never do. Now, in verses 5-11, we will see the result of the Holy Spirit being in us. What is the result of the Holy Spirit being in us? We used to be totally under the control of the flesh, but now things have changed since we are in Christ and His Spirit lives in us. Paul is going to show us a contrast of people who have the Holy Spirit living in them and those who do not.
First, he shows the mindsets of those who have and do not have the Holy Spirit. Look at Romans 8:5: "For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit."
"For those who are according to the flesh." The verb here is the present participle, so it is saying their lifestyle is according to the flesh. They live according to the power of the flesh.
Then Paul says they have "set their minds on the things of the flesh. The phrase "set their minds on" is one word, meaning "a fixed mindset." It refers to one that is devoted to something. He is speaking of those who have a mindset that is consistently devoted to the flesh. These are the unconverted who obey the impulses of the flesh. They live to gratify the desires of their corrupt nature. They know no other way
But—note the contrast here. He says: "but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit." Paul shows the contrasting lifestyle of those who are unbelievers with those who are believers. Their minds have been changed through repentance and now they are fixed on the things of God.
2Ti 1:7-note says: "For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline." These are the ones who have a "saved" mindset. If you think of it as a radio, their minds have now gone from AM to FM. They are on a completely different wavelength.
J
Luk_13:3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Luk_13:5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Luk 13:1 There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luk 13:2 And he answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way?
Luk 13:3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Pretty self explanatory.
J.
quietthinker
False, scripture has never taught that in any sense.
False, scripture has never taught that in any sense.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Paul is talking about the final judgment. Those "in Christ" will not suffer condemnation, i.e. eternal damnation.
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