What does it mean to be Born Again

[Rocky Wiley]

The term "firstborn" is not the same thing as the born again phenominon that Jesus reffered to in John 3. "Firstborn" refers to a position or title. Jesus was not born again. Being born again is a prelude to the resurrection of our bodies. It is about receiving a new spirit, which comes from the seed of Christ. It is very literally about Jesus producing offspring. The resurrection is a completion of this process. There are those who will not die at all before the resurrection. Therefore the resurrection is not about coming back from the dead, but rather receiving a new body. The resurrection is not a birth. It is a change. The new birth of John 3 is actually and literally, a birth. The term is used for reproduction, as is the word "seed". We are born of His seed. It has happened already, as Peter put the term in the past tense, and used the word 'seed' (1Pet.1:23).

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Joh 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

In the above scriptures, Jesus said we must be born again to enter into the kingdom. He told Martha that those who are dead will live. Those of us who are alive and believe in Jesus shall never die!

Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

So we are born again when we believe as the scripture says and we shall never die. Is that physical? No, it is spiritual.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear R,

It says firstborn from the dead. Jesus is the first to be resurrected and glorified. If He is the first then others who will follow. This clearly refers to the resurrection. We are born again...a second time how then? In some metaphysical way? No, if the virgin birth meant a literal virgin birth then when God refers to being born again that must mean we are literally born in some fashion. We are born once into this creation through the will of the flesh and we are born again into the new creation through the will of the Spirit. The time that this happens is at the resurrection and glorification.

As far as glorification and resurrection being two different things I think that is open to discussion. Jesus rose from the dead before He was glorified yet Paul tells it like when we are raised and glorified at the same time.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Dear R,

It says firstborn from the dead. Jesus is the first to be resurrected and glorified. If He is the first then others who will follow. This clearly refers to the resurrection. We are born again...a second time how then? In some metaphysical way? No, if the virgin birth meant a literal virgin birth then when God refers to being born again that must mean we are literally born in some fashion. We are born once into this creation through the will of the flesh and we are born again into the new creation through the will of the Spirit. The time that this happens is at the resurrection and glorification.

As far as glorification and resurrection being two different things I think that is open to discussion. Jesus rose from the dead before He was glorified yet Paul tells it like when we are raised and glorified at the same time.

Blessings,

Justin

Hi Justin,

We don't like to look at the dead this way, but we were born dead spiritually. Adam was alive spiritually, but he died the day he ate of the tree. Since then no man has been born with eternal life. Even the body of Jesus died, but because he had no sin in him, death could not hold him. As I list these scriptures think of them as being of the spiritually dead.

Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Luk 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Joh 6:48 I am that bread of life.
Joh 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
Joh 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Joh 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

The promise of God is that when we are born again, we become spiritually alive, and we shall never die. Out spirit will go directly to be with the Lord as we leave this body behind.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

His kingdom is a spiritual kingdom.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear R,

The kingdom of God is within the hearts of men. However the resurrection is a physical event meant to transport us into a literal New Heavens and New Earth after the judgement.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Dear R,

The kingdom of God is within the hearts of men. However the resurrection is a physical event meant to transport us into a literal New Heavens and New Earth after the judgement.

Justin,

I have wrote of this in another forum, so this time allow me to just use my own words.

In Matthew 24 Jesus said the temple in Jerusalem would be totally destroyed. The disciples ask, 'when will these things be, the sign of thy coming and the end of the world?. The Greek word translated to world was 'aion' - properly an age or messianic age'. So they were really asking about the end of the world as they knew it. So from this we know that they considered the destruction of the temple to mean that Jesus was to return, and the age would end when the temple was destroyed.

Jesus went on to explain all the things that would happen, and he said it would be in their generation. To continue he said 'heaven and earth would pass away'. Jesus was not changing the subject when he said this, for to the Jew 'heaven and earth' was the temple, where God and man meet. The one Jewish Professor of the Hebrew Bible that I quote is: Rachel Alderman and her article on Jacob's Vision : http://www.racheladelman.com/ The temple mount was the place that Abraham took Isaac to sacrifice, Jacob had his vision of the ladder going into heaven and angles coming down, it is in the article.

So now that we know Jesus referred to the temple as 'heaven and earth', we can go to the Book of Revelation and see that when it says "I saw a new heaven and earth for the first heaven and first earth had passed away; and there was no more sea', The temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD and the new temple of God resides in us. The fact that sea is symbolic and meant the Jew and the Gentile were seperated by it and now it is gone. The new temple is for whosoever will.

God's kingdom is a spiritual kingdom. Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

 

[IanLC]

To me "being born again" means being born of the water and the Spirit (John 3:5). Its simply God saving me through His son Jesus from being on my way to a burning hell that I deserved for my sinful heart and lifestyle yet by His grace and mercy He chose me and saved me. And so as a result of me accepting Him as my Savior and live for Him as my Lord. So I am obedient to His word and commands and live a life of holiness that He commands bearing fruit for the salvation I confess.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear U,

I don't disagree with you as far as you take it. What I am talking is about how being born again fits into the larger perspective of what God is doing.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Firstborn From the Dead
(tabernacle theology series)

by

Justin Mangonel



God has purposed in His heart to judge sin through fire. This is the reason that Hell is a lake of fire and why this present creation will likewise be burnt up. We, being the part of the new creation of God, must be removed from this old creation and placed in the New Heavens and New Earth in order to be "saved" from the fiery fate of this world. The purpose of salvation is to accomplish this task. Through the blood of Jesus Christ our sin is washed away and we become worthy to partake of the world to come. Do you still doubt there is a world to come? It is written,

"And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life."

Mark 10:29,30


2 Peter 3:13

And finally God writes in the book of Revelation,

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

Revelations 21:1-3

Hi again,

You have given much thought to your post and I commend you for it. However, just a little more study time can bring it all together for everyone. Please allow me to make a point about hermenuetics.

1. The Old Testament was written to the Jews, and was for them.

2. The gospels in the New Testament was about the Jewish Messiah coming to set up his kingdom that had been promised to the Jews. Because of their unbelief, his kingdom was about to be passed on to whosoever will. That would happen after his crucifixion, when his disciples would go about establishing the church and would be consummated when the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed and the Old world (old testament laws) would pass away and the new world (new testament of grace) would begin.

3. The epistles were written to the early churches and/or Christians of that time. This is important because many, many people want them to be to our generation. They were not!

So when you asked 'do you doubt there is world to come?'. Yes, because it has already come. So I ask you "if their world was to end and the new world would offer us eternal life, hasn't that happened?" After all Jesus said "whosoever believeth on me shall never die". Isn't that eternal?

Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world"

The bible is for us:
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear R,

Thanks for your thoughtful response to this post.

Scriptures often have application in a literal first and typological secondary sense. Relatively few scriptures are allegorical. I tend to think that the scriptures are to be interpreted literally whenever possible. When you read "My Kingdom is not of this world." then you ask, "Which word is it of?" when you read,

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

2 Peter 3:10

And,

"And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree."

Isaiah 34:4

With,

"And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

Revelation 6:14

the picture emerges that this present world is literally destroyed.

Finally, when you read,

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

And,

"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."

Revelation 21:5

I come to the conclusion that the first heavens and earth were destroyed and a literal New Heavens and Earth are created. This teaching of the New Heavens and New Earth is fundamental to understanding the New Testament writings of the apostles. It underlies a great deal of what they wrote.

Now, I totally agree that God's focus is was the Jews in the Old Testament and during the ministry of Christ and even in part of the book of Acts. I also agree that once the church age is done God focus will be upon His chosen once again. However, right now they have been cast off due to their unbelief and partial blindness is upon them.

Perhaps in a spiritual and typological sense what you said concerning the old world...or old religious system under the Law of Moses being done away with is true but I do not think that it is the primary interpretation of that scripture. However, typology is in the eye of the beholder and is not proof in and of itself.

You are also correct that the epistles were written to specific churches and dealt with things relevant to them. However, in doing so Paul and the other apostles discussed much of the doctrine that they were teaching to the early Christians and because we take their writings as inspired they form the basis of our belief system today. However, much of Christianity is stuck in the past and will not let God move as He wishes to in the present because of an over reliance upon their writings.

I appreciate your comments and I believe you are trying to have a clear picture of what really went on and I commend you.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[freeman4]

Hi H,

You are right that we are talking of two different aspects of the same thing. However, I don't believe that the taking of a new direction of life is the actual event of being born again. Perhaps you could say that the born agian process is a event that happens over time culminating in being born again into the world to come but I believe to say that when a Christian accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and savior they have only begun the journey.

By freeman4:
Have you had someone ask if you were “Born Again”? This seems to be a standard question from one who considers themself to be Christian. The answer to that question should be “no” I am not born again, but I am in the process of being born again at a future time. Let me explain. Before an individual can begin to understand Gods truth and what He stands for, he or she must first know about Him and His Son, Jesus Christ. When I say one must hear about Jesus Christ, they must understand what He is all about and that He was the first to be born again. He is the first of the “First Fruits”. All who are alive now are still physical mortal beings, flesh and blood, still capable of dying of a physical death. Before the born again process can take place one must accept Jesus Christ as their redeemer, their personal Savior.
Once this has been accomplished and one accepts Jesus as their Redeemer, they are then a potential “Son of God”. While this is being accomplished an individual then begins to understand, they begin to comprehend in their mind what God is all about. While this is occurring one is in the process of having a new birth in the future, being born again, not yet fully born in a Spiritual form for they are still physical in nature. This is only the preparation stage of being born in the Spirit or being born again. When God is calling an individual they are in the process of being convicted by the Spirit of God. Then the Holy Spirit will begin working in the mind and is the first step in becoming born again in a future time when they will become Spirit beings. The complete birth process or being “born again” won’t occur until our Lord and Savior returns. Then and only then are we changed to spirit, being born again of a Spirit Essence. Being human and of the flesh you are then a potential son of God, not yet born in the God family until He returns. You are still human in nature, not spirit.
Notice in 1st Corinthians ch 15: verse 23; “but every man in his own order, (everyone that has been called by God and who has become His potential son, will become God’s Son in the order and the time God chooses for them) Christ the first fruits: (Jesus Christ was the first one “Born Again of the Spirit” And this occurred at the resurrection. He was the first of the First Fruits.) Only the one’s who belong to Jesus Christ will be born again at His Coming and not before. That includes those who are in the grave.
As stated before, before an individual can become a Christian they must first hear and understand why our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for us. As an individual continues to study and hear more about the Gospel (good news) of God, then they are in the process of being called or converted by God. After one has made A decision to confess Christ with their own mouth and then be baptized, then and only then are they on their way of being born as a Spirit being in the future. But until that time, that individual is still a physical being. Not yet spirit. Not yet born again, but only a potential son of God in the physical, only becoming a Spirit Son of God when Jesus Christ returns.

“THE PHYSICAL & SPIRITUAL STRUCTURE”​

(Please read 1 Corinthians Ch 15​

When God created man and woman, He had a plan already in place for them. That plan included a Family structure, both physical and Spiritual. Scripture tells us that Adam knew Eve and Eve bore Children. God made it possible for when man and woman have a relationship that the man will impregnate a woman with his seed. As this occurs and if all is as it should be inside the womb, a human being will be conceived inside the womb and that being will start to grow. The being inside the womb must be nourished and fed by the mother by what she eats and is then given to the baby being formed in the womb, in turn the baby will grow for nine months and then he or she will be born to a physical life.

For an individual to be born is not an instant process. The mother for the next nine months has to make sure that the right nourishment is given to this child through the life support in which she provides through her own body. After a time process of nine months the child will then be born and it will be born in a physical state. All the time this child is being protected inside the womb of its mother.​

Now, let us look at a Christian’s life and how it to is developed. When a person begins to hear the Word of God and to hear about God’s Son, Jesus Christ, that individual is in the process of having a spiritual relationship, just as a physical man and woman have a physical relationship. As an individual listens and begins to learn from God’s word, he or she is in the process of the future birth with God’s Holy Spirit. Now when one is baptized, they at that time are impregnated with God’s Holy Spirit and, just as a baby in it mothers womb, they to have to go through a time process in the spiritual womb of God. They have to, just as the baby in the womb, are be nourished with the right food (spiritual in nature). So as a baby in the physical womb has a time to be born, so does a Christian in the spiritual womb have a time process before they are “BORN AGAIN”. That born again birth will not occur until Jesus Christ returns and all who are alive and are in the embryo stage will at that time be changed from a PHYSICAL BEING to a SPIRITUAL BEING, they will be, BORN AGAIN. Not of a physical state but of a spiritual nature.
Those individuals whom have died and have God’s Holy Spirit will be resurrected at the time of Jesus Christ return and they to will meet Him in the air and will be born of a SPIRITUAL nature with a new body at the same time of those who are alive.
Many have misunderstood the born again process. Hopefully this will help you to understand what it is all about. So may we all learn and grow in the womb of God, the Church and get ready for our birth in JESUS CHRIST as a new creature.

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