What does it mean to be born again?

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Brakelite

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The same man who said that also said to believers, you are yet carnal, walking by the flesh and I can’t yet speak to you as to the mature. So…
Paul said that having some straight testimonial evidence from witnesses... One man sleeping with his mother in law. Does anyone here have such evidence that others are yet so carnal they must be constantly rebuked as Paul found it so needful to do?
 

marks

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The same man who said that also said to believers, you are yet carnal, walking by the flesh and I can’t yet speak to you as to the mature. So…
1 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV
1) And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2) I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3) For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

It's descriptive, adjectives. In the one place, Romans, he teaches we've be crucified in Christ's death, and this renders us dead, and free from sin.

In the other place, he address those who have died in Christ, who are freed from sin, saying, you are being fleshy, "after the manner of men you walk".

This speaks on the same lines as so many other passages, such as, If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. That we might have life in Christ, but it doesn't mean we will live accordingly. I know you understand that.

But the freedom we have is that we don't have to live according to flesh, we are free to have the spiritual life in Christ. And generally speaking He is showing us what that means, and working with us to live that way, more and more throughout our lives. I think God has as many ways of training us in the faith as He has children!

Much love!
 

amigo de christo

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Paul said that having some straight testimonial evidence from witnesses... One man sleeping with his mother in law. Does anyone here have such evidence that others are yet so carnal they must be constantly rebuked as Paul found it so needful to do?
The dark rainbow . when a man a man are sitting in a church claiming to BELIEVE
and are married . I WOULD THINK ITS QUITE OBVIOUS rebuking must be done . But not this age ,
they just hug and say all is well and its love .
 

Episkopos

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All of which I agree with... But do you have to repeat that personally to individuals as their prime issue? Can you not teach this truth as a generic truth and leave the holy Spirit to do His work in convicting individuals of their needs? It isn't your job to convict individuals of their shortcomings... You are human and as prone to misjudging human character as the next man. You could be inflicting more damage than good.
One has to understand the scale of the truth. Before Paul had a real connection to God, he justified himself through the scriptures. When the truth was revealed to Him...he was able to put the scriptures into their proper context. His writings became his testimony of the truth IN power AND NOT in word...as he puts it.

The irony is that people will make the same religious mistake Paul made BEFORE his encounter with Christ...and base their faith on words rather than power and actual encounter.

Paul warns us...and Jesus and Peter and Jude.....about the very real possibility of falling short, of rejection from the Lord, when we neglect to seek humility and the fear of the Lord. To me, anyone who doesn't balance out their message with what Jesus and Paul clearly teach...is merely teaching a religious ideology that is easy to accept in a still fallen state. It engenders a false assurance. As he says...so we warn men. That's all I'm doing.

2 Cor. 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
 

Episkopos

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Would that be making "carnal" equal to "immature"?

Much love!
It can be...and it can be much more than that. People can return to their vomit...they can become enemies of the cross...they can rebel like Korah...they can proclaim they are rich when in fact they are poor wretched naked and blind.
 

marks

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It can be...and it can be much more than that. People can return to their vomit...they can become enemies of the cross...they can rebel like Korah...they can proclaim they are rich when in fact they are poor wretched naked and blind.
I'm asking concerning that place as an adjective.

In other places, the first portion of Romans 8, for instance, it's used in the noun form, giving a different meaning. In the one place, being flesh, in the other place, being as flesh, a comparison.

OK, that's all I have time for, looking forward to continuing!

Much love!
 

Enoch111

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To me, anyone who doesn't balance out their message with what Jesus and Paul clearly teach...is merely teaching a religious ideology that is easy to accept in a still fallen state.
Since teaching -- by definition -- consists of words, you just contradicted yourself with your Gnostic philosophy. Here is what you said before that "The irony is that people will make the same religious mistake Paul made BEFORE his encounter with Christ...and base their faith on words rather than power and actual encounter."

So this is merely more spiritual nonsense from one who rejects the true Gospel and promotes THE BIG LIE. You are actually telling Christians that they are still in their "fallen state". And that is a lie from the devil.

What do we have in the written Word of God if not WORDS? And what did Jesus say about the written Word of God?
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

So Episkopos is attacking the very words of Christ and the very foundation of the Christian faith. That is similar to what the devil said to Eve" Yea, hath God said...?" Do we really need such devilish nonsense on a Christian forum?
 

Episkopos

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Since teaching -- by definition -- consists of words, you just contradicted yourself with your Gnostic philosophy. Here is what you said before that "The irony is that people will make the same religious mistake Paul made BEFORE his encounter with Christ...and base their faith on words rather than power and actual encounter."

So this is merely more spiritual nonsense from one who rejects the true Gospel and promotes THE BIG LIE. You are actually telling Christians that they are still in their "fallen state". And that is a lie from the devil.

What do we have in the written Word of God if not WORDS? And what did Jesus say about the written Word of God?
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

So Episkopos is attacking the very words of Christ and the very foundation of the Christian faith. That is similar to what the devil said to Eve" Yea, hath God said...?" Do we really need such devilish nonsense on a Christian forum?
Religious pride alert. The fallen condition of mankind is that he is a slave to sin.

So in your religious conceit Jesus could never say to Christian ministers who did many wonderful works in Jesus name..."Go away, I never knew you?"

Those are the very words of Christ that you are denying in your religious tirade....

Did Jesus really say that? Yes He did. And you should keep those words in mind for when the time comes...

The lies that you teach are based on a religious fiction based on reciting words without power...leading reprobate people to be puffed up and assume they are just like Paul.

Paul's gospel in not based on words but on power. Maybe you haven't read as far as 1 Cor.???


1 Cor. 4:20 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power. [20] For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. [21] What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Paul said that having some straight testimonial evidence from witnesses... One man sleeping with his mother in law. Does anyone here have such evidence that others are yet so carnal they must be constantly rebuked as Paul found it so needful to do?
I’m not following you there. I read nothing about a guy sleeping with his mother in law and I just read 1 Corinthians 1-3 again. He does not appear to be talking to one man either but to many of those present.

And yes, I have evidence that there are some, maybe even most, participating in this very thread, who are yet carnal. This is the evidence:
3 Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans?
 

stunnedbygrace

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Paul said that having some straight testimonial evidence from witnesses... One man sleeping with his mother in law. Does anyone here have such evidence that others are yet so carnal they must be constantly rebuked as Paul found it so needful to do?
So yes, I have evidence that some are yet so carnal they need rebuke.They often go into threads and start hollering at and harassing whoever it is they’re mad at and fed up with. There is absolutely NO shaking the dust off the feet and leaving the persons thread. There is a constant following of the person and entering their threads and searching for their posts. And an argument of, I’m fighting satan and false teaching, is ridiculous. Jesus didn’t go following after and hollering at so called false teachers. THEY sought out wherever HE was currently speaking or teaching.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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So Episkopos is attacking the very words of Christ and the very foundation of the Christian faith. That is similar to what the devil said to Eve" Yea, hath God said...?" Do we really need such devilish nonsense on a Christian forum?
Like here, for instance. And when we were all trying so hard.
So how should someone respond? With a silly meme? With a rebuke? With a report of the post?
You guys decide. Do we let all our labor here today and control of our tongues just be undone by the man?
 

stunnedbygrace

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Any mention of the balance of goodness and severity of God brings out the old spirit of the Pharisee to murder the truth speaker. No surprise there.
Well I’m good and well tired of it. And his last sentence is stirring men up to join him in getting rid of you. It’s ridiculous. I’m going to start spraining my fingers hitting the report button on nonsense like that. I have confidence in letting the mods decide if he should be allowed to speak like that to another member.
 

Episkopos

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I have no idea what they are laboring over . I pray some of them are contending for the truth .
it gets depressing to watch some defend falsehoods over and over and over again .
I usually just come in and out of certain places here and there . TIME TO POINT TO CHRIST and all biblical sound doctrine
cause all else is but vainity in the winds .
I'm trying to do that...but the resistance is very great.
 

stunnedbygrace

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The dark rainbow . when a man a man are sitting in a church claiming to BELIEVE
and are married . I WOULD THINK ITS QUITE OBVIOUS rebuking must be done . But not this age ,
they just hug and say all is well and its love .
You are bringing in the topic of homosexuality and not contributing to the topic. Please stay on, or at least around, the topic of the op. And I would venture to at least guess that none in here are homosexual or married to the same sex. So please keep to topic.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Would that be making "carnal" equal to "immature"?

Much love!
As concerns a believer, yes, I think ”yet carnal” equates to immaturity and still ruled by the passions of their flesh.
Unbelievers are carnal too, of course, but he is addressing believers.
 
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Brakelite

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One has to understand the scale of the truth. Before Paul had a real connection to God, he justified himself through the scriptures. When the truth was revealed to Him...he was able to put the scriptures into their proper context. His writings became his testimony of the truth IN power AND NOT in word...as he puts it.

The irony is that people will make the same religious mistake Paul made BEFORE his encounter with Christ...and base their faith on words rather than power and actual encounter.

Paul warns us...and Jesus and Peter and Jude.....about the very real possibility of falling short, of rejection from the Lord, when we neglect to seek humility and the fear of the Lord. To me, anyone who doesn't balance out their message with what Jesus and Paul clearly teach...is merely teaching a religious ideology that is easy to accept in a still fallen state. It engenders a false assurance. As he says...so we warn men. That's all I'm doing.

2 Cor. 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
That's all you are doing? Is it? In your posts to others, (not all) you make things direct and personal by saying, "you are still carnal, fleshly, and have need of Christ", on the sole basis of their differing in theology. Paul said those things based on evidential behavior and character. What things I have seen in others posts here, things that you claim are fleshly and carnal, I see also in yours. Now I do not immediately start the writers of being fleshly and carnal , but there could be any number of reasons why they differ to me in theology. I could be wrong for a start, and that would mean someone needs to get their Bible out and show to me how. Or, they could be wrong, (according to my perception of biblical truth which could also be wrong) and that would then be my calling to get my Bible out and show them how, which they would in response either show me my error, or deny my right to speak on some account, whether it's my denominational affiliation which everyone knows is SDA, or their misunderstanding of what I'm actually trying to say, (or ignorance of what SDAs actually teach which is common) which I would endeavor to clarify, which on some subjects is not an easy task. Some topics cannot be described or explained in a few paragraphs, and very few have the patience or willingness to go further. But what I try to avoid is calling those who do not agree stupid, fleshly, carnal, and unsaved and in need of Jesus. That simply ain't my job.
I am witnessing a great deal of presumption in this forum, not only regarding what other people believe which is bad enough, but their motives in doing so, which is far worse. Keep things generic brother without the personal put-downs and you'll be fine.
 

stunnedbygrace

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That's all you are doing? Is it? In your posts to others, (not all) you make things direct and personal by saying, "you are still carnal, fleshly, and have need of Christ", on the sole basis of their differing in theology. Paul said those things based on evidential behavior and character. What things I have seen in others posts here, things that you claim are fleshly and carnal, I see also in yours. Now I do not immediately start the writers of being fleshly and carnal , but there could be any number of reasons why they differ to me in theology. I could be wrong for a start, and that would mean someone needs to get their Bible out and show to me how. Or, they could be wrong, (according to my perception of biblical truth which could also be wrong) and that would then be my calling to get my Bible out and show them how, which they would in response either show me my error, or deny my right to speak on some account, whether it's my denominational affiliation which everyone knows is SDA, or their misunderstanding of what I'm actually trying to say, (or ignorance of what SDAs actually teach which is common) which I would endeavor to clarify, which on some subjects is not an easy task. Some topics cannot be described or explained in a few paragraphs, and very few have the patience or willingness to go further. But what I try to avoid is calling those who do not agree stupid, fleshly, carnal, and unsaved and in need of Jesus. That simply ain't my job.
I am witnessing a great deal of presumption in this forum, not only regarding what other people believe which is bad enough, but their motives in doing so, which is far worse. Keep things generic brother without the personal put-downs and you'll be fine.
Please stick to the topic of the op, which is what does it mean to be born again, or at least somewhere around the topic. Your opinions of this man are not the topic of his thread.
 
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