What does the Bible say about Grace and Good Works?

[Keturah]

The avatar is only a reflection of what is going on inside a person and what they love.
Everything we do as Christians truly does matter.
But we can agree to disagree in love and respect and move on.
Dan and I go back even to another forum in these kind of discussions.

May the Lord Jesus and His peace be upon you.

I do not care if Dan is your natural brother. We are given these commands love God, love your neighbor and love each other.
Is it only vitriol you share or do you ever see ANY GOOD others may say.

Beat a kid enough times every day and he will only be beaten and may grow into an awfully twisted wicked evil person.

Correct a kid in love with chastisement, correcting error in explanation and you may grow a sin conscious, self aware, loving child of God !

 

[mailmandan]

Dans avatar represents his line of work. he uses and actor who is pictured a mailman as a symbol of what the lord has given him to support his family

That is correct brother. It's not about promoting sinful living or a TV show at all.

 

[amigo de christo]

I do not care if Dan is your natural brother. We are given these commands love God, love your neighbor and love each other.
Is it only vitriol you share or do you ever see ANY GOOD others may say.

Beat a kid enough times every day and he will only be beaten and may grow into an awfully twisted wicked evil person.

Correct a kid in love with chastisement, correcting error in explanation and you may grow a sin conscious, self aware, loving child of God !

Yep , follow the pattern of GOD . He chastens when one does wrong
and he rewards when one does right .

 

[mailmandan]

another serious flaw of legalism.

you can't repent of your own error. you keep pushing it. even though deep down inside you have to know what you are doing is wrong. unless you are so deceived you actually believe it

Amen! Luke 18:9 - Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is correct brother. It's not about promoting sinful living or a TV show at all.

its sad when people see things that are not there. then promote it as truth instead of trying to find out the truth.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen! Luke 18:9 - Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

You are the tax collector here (I have known you for years and can say this with confidence)

who does that leave as the pharisee?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

First, Dan is promoting a sinful TV-show called Seinfeld in his avatar (With a picture of actor Jerry Seinfeld in a mailman outfit that is in each of his posts).

According to one article:

Most episodes of Seinfeld circuitously forward two worldviews: The first is that most people are bad (and not very smart). The second is that caring about other people is absurd (and not very practical). It is the most villainous sitcom ever made, particularly since its massive audience never seemed to fully grasp what it was literally seeing. This was true from its inception. There's an episode from the first season ("Male Unbonding") in which Jerry reconsiders his lifelong friendship with a self-absorbed man he hates. The relationship is based on nostalgia; as a child, the despised man's family owned a Ping-Pong table. Jerry longs to sever this relationship and resents that the man still desires his company. "I would have been friends with Stalin if he had a Ping-Pong table," he tells George (a different self-absorbed friend Jerry actually likes). All of this is funny, because Jerry Seinfeld is funny; it's also relatable, because adolescent familiarity sometimes lasts longer than it should. But consider what this premise is really doing: It is satirizing the notion that relationships matter. It suggests that healthy friendships are disposable, and that the commitments we make to nonessential acquaintances are absurd extensions of social politeness. And this is not the subtext. This is the text.

On Seinfeld, the characters express contempt for emotion. It is the weakest quality a human can possess. This could be demonstrated in roughly half of the show's 180 episodes, but one does so overtly: In an episode titled "The Serenity Now," Jerry's thirty-minute girlfriend (ex–Full House star Lori Loughlin) pushes him to get angry, simply to see if he has the ability to express any kind of emotion in any given scenario. This is both a commentary on Seinfeld's fictional character (who doesn't empathize with anyone) and a meta-commentary on Seinfeld's technical ability as an actor (which borders on nonexistent). When the girlfriend's plan succeeds, the floodgates open. Jerry becomes an emotional wreck who cries constantly, much to his own confusion ("What is this salty discharge?" he wonders aloud). His emotional instability makes him creepy and annoying, ultimately prompting him to propose marriage to Elaine for no rational reason. By the end of the episode, his hysteria has passed. Jerry returns to his former uncaring self, and everyone (including the audience) is relieved.

Source:

Why "Seinfeld" Is The Most Villainous Sitcom In Human History

<b>"Deep satire is a collision sport."</b>

www.buzzfeed.com

The Shoes,” Season 4, Episode 16

George is caught staring at his boss’ teenage daughter’s cleavage. His defense is that it was in his “field of vision.” The entire gang orchestrates a scenario for Elaine to show cleavage in front of his boss in order to demonstrate that when cleavage is visible, straight men are rendered powerless and cannot help but stare, justifying George’s ogling of a 15-year-old.


Source:

10 "Seinfeld" episodes that are racist and sexist in retrospect

Your favorite TV show is problematic

www.salon.com

So I would not take biblical advise from a Christian who is promoting something sinful.
God never wants us to sin and or promote sin in any way.

But Jerry is just acting as a typical NY Jew. is he not. The whole show is about NY Jews.
Where did he get this act from, everyday events and adds a bit of spice to such.
I find that atheist love the show for it inspires them.

I hate the show in fact but I find on some points interesting displays. it's very typical of shallow Godless low life.

A mate idolises that Show and he gets me to record some, to debate on.
One was about a new American who waved his finger in a type of way saying Jerry is a very bad man. and that cracked my mate up, he loves that finger action to display on others and their is another finger one as well, where you point at someone and wipe along it with your other hand some how, showing disrespect for that person. and someone sees him doing this and it's on.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But Jerry is just acting as a typical NY Jew. is he not. The whole show is about NY Jews.
Where did he get this act from, everyday events and adds a bit of spice to such.
I find that atheist love the show for it inspires them.

I hate the show in fact but I find on some points interesting displays. it's very typical of shallow Godless low life.

A mate idolises that Show and he gets me to record some, to debate on.
One was about a new American who waved his finger in a type of way saying Jerry is a very bad man. and that cracked my mate up, he loves that finger action to display on others and their is another finger one as well, where you point at someone and wipe along it with your other hand some how, showing disrespect for that person. and someone sees him doing this and it's on.

Romans 12:2 says,
”…be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”

If you read the New Testament and you have studied up on how the show promotes various sinful things, then it is not a show that a Christian should watch or promote. It’s just that simple. When I was into watching worldly movies, and TV shows, I thought I could pick and choose what good was within them, but a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I do not care if Dan is your natural brother. We are given these commands love God, love your neighbor and love each other.
Is it only vitriol you share or do you ever see ANY GOOD others may say.

Beat a kid enough times every day and he will only be beaten and may grow into an awfully twisted wicked evil person.

Correct a kid in love with chastisement, correcting error in explanation and you may grow a sin conscious, self aware, loving child of God !

It’s not unloving to correct people about sin. Then again, we are living in the last days where people see that correcting sin or false beliefs as being unloving (When that’s simply not the case).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That is correct brother. It's not about promoting sinful living or a TV show at all.

So you have not watched the Seinfeld TV series in recent years and or do you currently enjoy the show?
Do you own the series on DVD or have it recorded on VHS or a hard drive?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Amen! Luke 18:9 - Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

I don’t despise you. I love you in Jesus Christ. What I don’t like are the promotion of sinful things and or the false belief that is unbiblical (that denies Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Galatians 6:8-9, Romans 8:13, etcetera).

I am not claiming to be better than you to God by way of prayer. The point of the parable is that the Pharisee did not even receive God’s grace and he made it all about living holy with no grace whatsoever. I believe in the salvation of God’s grace (Whereas this Pharisee did not). I believe every true Christian should humble themselves before God in being saved by His grace. That’s the point of the parable. It does not mean grace is a license to sin in some way in the fact that we never have to worry about losing or endangering our salvation if we sin. Jude 1 warns about those who turn God’s grace into a license for immorality. Titus 2:11-12 says God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously, and godly in this present world. We are not to love the world and neither the things in the world. If any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in them. This means putting away things that the world loves.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I do not care if Dan is your natural brother. We are given these commands love God, love your neighbor and love each other.
Is it only vitriol you share or do you ever see ANY GOOD others may say.

Beat a kid enough times every day and he will only be beaten and may grow into an awfully twisted wicked evil person.

Correct a kid in love with chastisement, correcting error in explanation and you may grow a sin conscious, self aware, loving child of God !

Proverbs 27:6
“Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.”

Proverbs 13:24
“He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.”

Again, what do you think happened with the fornicating believer in the church in 1 Corinthians 5?
Did they just lovey dovey him or did Paul tell the Corinthians to kick him out of church fellowship?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

amen

when people have lost an argument, they resort to trying to attack the other person.. try to discredit them.. that is what happens with legalism.. they get to the point they have no argument, so they resort to character attacks..

Not at all. My argument with the Bible is solid and nobody here really addressed the verses I put forth to them.
My point of the avatar is merely to show that it is incorrect for a Christian to promote a worldly sinful TV show (Whether that was their intention or not is besides the point). If their intention was to promote that they are a mailman, then there are other pictures that can do so without promoting a sinful TV series. Again, does he have a problem with the series? Would he watch such a series in the future again?

Dan is actually a mailman.. that is why he uses that avatar. he is not promoting Seinfeld, He is promoting his line of work.

This is an attempt to downplay what is being done. If I knew there was a series that was sinful, and I did not realize it was sinful and somebody pointed it out, and I accidentally posted something about a show or movie, or story that promoted something sinful, I would take down that image so as not to lead others astray into watching it and thereby stumbling into sin.

I used to be there at one point in time. As a Christian: In the past, I used to love James Bond, Star Trek, Marvel movies, etcetera. But in 2016, that changed one day and I had forsaken these sinful films for following my Lord Jesus Christ. I would not promote images of these films to other believers because it can lead them into sin.

Bible highlighter can't get out of his own way.

There you go using your belief system to interpret the word and not the word of God to set your belief system.

There are parts of the Word of God that you and many others are not dealing with.

Salvation is of grace, not of merit.

you work to merit a reward, a wage,

salvation can not be merited. You merit condemnation. because you have sinned, the penalty of sin is death.

Romans 4:4, and Works of Earning Money vs. Works of Responsibility in Owning a Free Gift.

To him that works his reward is not of grace but it is of debt as if it was some kind of obligation like at a job whereby he works so as to earn money.

"Now to a laborer, his wages are not counted as a favor or a gift, but as an obligation (something owed to him)." (Romans 4:4) (AMPC).​

So yes. I agree. Works Alone or trading dollars for hours like at a job involving salvation is wrong. Works Alone Salvationism (without God’s grace) is wrong because one has no grace or rest ever. This would purely be a works based system of salvation with no grace or mercy (like with Christ) if one messes up. A person’s good deeds have to outweigh their bad deeds.

But this is not the same thing as "Works of Responsibility in Owning a Free Gift."

I believe God's grace is a free gift as Scripture says (Ephesians 2:8). Gifts are received, and then we do works of responsibility to take care of those gifts.

Let me give you an example:
If Rick received a car as a free gift from his dad, does that mean he can run red lights, drive drunk, and hit pedestrians? No. If he were to do that, he would not have his gift for very long. Now, was his car any less a free gift because he had to do works of responsibility in possessing his free gift? No. Did Rick have to work at a job and get a loan to buy this car? No. It was a free gift from his dad.

Here is another example:
If Billy-Bob prayed for a wife for many years and he eventually receive a wife from the Lord and consider her as a gift, then that does not mean Billy-Bob can cheat on her and or not love her and expect for her to stay with him. It is the same with God. Disloyalty to GOD means we do not really love GOD and we just love ourselves more than Him. GOD calls us to obedience to His Word. This was the problem that goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden. But men today want to say that we can break God's commands and they will not die. This was the same lie that the enemy was trying to sell Eve on. The serpent told her that she would not die if she ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Which was a violation of God's command).

Anyways, in conclusion: We know that working like at a job (trading dollars for hours) is not the same as doing "Works of responsibility in owning a free gift." Paul is not talking about responsibility in possessing Jesus Christ (Who is our gift). Paul is talking about trying to earn your salvation by a system of "Works Salvationism Alone" that did not include God's grace at all. But men today confuse the issue to justify sin under God’s grace (Which is what Jude 1:4 warns against).

Only death can pay for your sin. How many death sentences do you have against you? (how many sins have you commited) you think your measly work is going to pay for those sins? when the ONLY thing which can pay for them is the death of an innocent (this was shown in the law to lead you as a schoolmaster)

sadly. you have failed to grasp the law. Like a pharisee. you see yourself as righteous.. hence the law can not lead you any more than it lead them./ you think your ok. as Jesus said, he can not heal you until you repent and admit your own sin and debt against him, you must be broken (in Jesus words poor in spirit or literally bankrupt)

unutil this happen for you. You will not be able to see not only your sin, but Gods grace.. now will you understand it

I am not claiming I am perfect or living like a super saint without any flaws whatsoever. But I believe I must partake of the Sanctification Process each day as 2 Corinthians 7:1 says. Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. There is no fear of God in the popular view of Christianity today. It’s all grace and that’s it. So 2 Corinthians 7:1 is not going to remain on the inside of the hearts of many free grace believers today because they will either ignore it, or they speak against what it says plainly. But in the last days, many shall depart from the faith. We are in the last days now. People today cherry pick the Bible and only believe in the comforting parts and not the tough parts that they don’t like to hear. It’s just that simple.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That is correct brother. It's not about promoting sinful living or a TV show at all.

It matters not your intentions. The fact of the matter is that it is still a promotion of a TV series that is sinful (regardless of your original intentions). Do you see the series as sinful? Yes or no? If I knew something could lead another person into sin, why would I promote such a thing? Most Christians today do not have a problem with sinful worldly movies, and shows today. So I am not going to get any “like reps” on this one. Not that I am looking for any recognition from men. For the one in whom I seek to please always is the LORD.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I do not care if Dan is your natural brother. We are given these commands love God, love your neighbor and love each other.
Is it only vitriol you share or do you ever see ANY GOOD others may say.

Beat a kid enough times every day and he will only be beaten and may grow into an awfully twisted wicked evil person.

Correct a kid in love with chastisement, correcting error in explanation and you may grow a sin conscious, self aware, loving child of God !

What’s your opinion of Seinfeld as a Christian?
Do you think the TV show promotes only Christian values or does it promote sinful things?
It would not matter what different intentions of why a person would post an image from this series.
They could have done so for different reasons that may be innocent, but if they are aware this show is sinful (by another Christian pointing such a fact out), and they continue to keep promoting the show by having the image visible for all to see, then they are leading others to potentially watch the show (Whether that is their intention or not). If I just grabbed the image from the internet not knowing it was from this series, and somebody pointed it out that it was from a sinful show, I would delete it because I care enough about other people’s souls not being led astray by sin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Anyways, the best verse that answers this thread Topic question is 1 Corinthians 15:10.
Grace basically gives us the ability to do the work. It’s why the woman anointed Jesus feet with her tears and she loved him much by her actions. She loved much because she was forgiven much. Grace changed her to do works of love naturally. Granted, there are certain things God wants us to believe and do by His Word. Jesus says if we love Him, keep His commandments. Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed. Unfortunately, most today do not emphasize that is how we are to love Jesus.

 

[Keturah]

What’s your opinion of Seinfeld as a Christian?
Do you think the TV show promotes only Christian values or does it promote sinful things?
It would not matter what different intentions of why a person would post an image from this series.
They could have done so for different reasons that may be innocent, but if they are aware this show is sinful (by another Christian pointing such a fact out), and they continue to keep promoting the show by having the image visible for all to see, then they are leading others to potentially watch the show (Whether that is their intention or not). If I just grabbed the image from the internet not knowing it was from this series, and somebody pointed it out that it was from a sinful show, I would delete it because I care enough about other people’s souls not being led astray by sin.

BH, THIS IS BIZARRE, totally!

Are you the avatar forum police ?

LETS NOT EVER TALK AGAIN OK...........BUT THINK WE HAVE AND WE'VE REACHED THE END OF OUR MUTUAL INTEREST.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Romans 12:2 says,
”…be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”

If you read the New Testament and you have studied up on how the show promotes various sinful things, then it is not a show that a Christian should watch or promote. It’s just that simple. When I was into watching worldly movies, and TV shows, I thought I could pick and choose what good was within them, but a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit.

When my children were little I would have to watch what shows that were on, so I would have a handle on such as them. and so on such points I just pointed such out in a way to make them think at times, I would say it's all about understanding what is going on ?
Some people get sucked in to shows and just swallow the content without understanding where it's coming from, it's like they are in a moron mode and sucking such information in and just accepting it as normal ?
I think they are half a sleep really or not truly awake. they do not pickup on what is being dished up ! or they are not critical awake enough to catch on.
I know myself tired watching the News say and just pick up on something and have to find out what they are really on about, it's the way that they may word it. It maybe babble babble then what the subject is ? If I knew what the subject was I would of been on to it directly. I may be cooking etc and I do not listen to all of the News because I have no interest in a lot of it especially sports.

I was a contractor tradesman and one has to be critical of everything keeping an eye out all around you 24//7 like what is going on ! like a watch dog ready to go directly once the radar picks up on something then you are on the move, take your eye off the birdy for a second and disaster may strike.

Christ Jesus gives on grounding on the subject of Man and once one has a handle on that foundation it makes it much more easy to deal with, not to mention in a business dealing I may know one better than they truly know themselves, I even know what they are going to say next at times. and I am like please !

 

[Keturah]

I'm just gonna keep on roll....ing, roll.....ing, roll.....ing on the River King.
We all need..... R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

I'd like to teach the world to sing,
And tell them all of love,
I'd like them all to feel it ring,
And shower down from heaven above.

 SMILE LIKE YOU REALLY KNOW JESUS.

 

[Keturah]

Carry on folks. My reports have been rejected as insults.
If any has something objectable to say to me.
Plz do not. This way I'll NOT be forced to ignore you as my ONLY recourse.

Thank ya,thank ya.