What Happened To Cain?

[JohnDB]

No...the God did not curse the Earth. God is always good. God does not do bad because God is infinitely busy being good.

God was relaying or stating truth to Adam because of what he and Eve (Hawwa) did.
Remember when God said that the whole earth was "Very Good" ? OK...well considering that the whole section is prose it was another way of saying that the whole earth was Holy...including Adam. (since Eve didn't come till later women are unholy...always...LOL..Just a joke)


Holy does denote goodness/perfection...but that isn't all. Something that is holy also has a positive response to error should one come up. Remember Adam's role in the Garden? If it was hyper-perfect (like God) there would be no tending to do whatsoever...
But the whole earth is holy because God touched it and made it.

However...God did not make the Earth with the ability to forgive. It simply wasn't/isn't an attribute that the Earth is capable of. What God was trying to tell Adam and Eve that the path to true hyper-perfection and eternal life lies within the active use of forgiveness of errors.

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Cain went to the Land of Nod or "land of wandering" where if someone was able to read this section in Hebrew as it was originally written you would see that what Cain actually did was build a Levitical city of Refuge for one accused of murder. The allusions to that kind of city can't and won't be seen in English translations...only the Hebrew holds those contexts...but it is unmistakable and undeniable when seen.

Because of the allusion to this Levitical city making an assumption that Cain is now in a Levite type position or Priestly position; he belongs to God. Since he belongs to God he is now uncountable and unmeasurable. Just like during the census of Moses...the Levite clan was never counted. There were thirteen tribes...but since one belonged to God during all the years of Israel's history only 12 were counted.

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As far as Lamech goes.....
What is seen is a twisting of God's laws already.
IOW...instead of forgiveness or even an equitable trade of injuries (eye for an eye.....) we see a very harsh response to perceived sins against his person instead of against God. Never mind the fact that he took two wives instead of only one. Again this speaks to his pride as if he was more deserving and more righteous than anyone.

 

[Paul]

You have got to be kidding.

Not kidding at all. You just need to understand Scripture.

 

[evanom]

Cain went to the Land of Nod or "land of wandering" where if someone was able to read this section in Hebrew as it was originally written you would see that what Cain actually did was build a Levitical city of Refuge for one accused of murder. The allusions to that kind of city can't and won't be seen in English translations...only the Hebrew holds those contexts...but it is unmistakable and undeniable when seen.

Because of the allusion to this Levitical city making an assumption that Cain is now in a Levite type position or Priestly position; he belongs to God. Since he belongs to God he is now uncountable and unmeasurable.

THe assurtion that by murdeing his innocent brother Cain was given the status of a holy priest seperated onto God is really strange. Remember, the cities of refuge (that were decreed 2000 plus years AFTER the Cain incident), were not for harboring murderers. They were for accidental man slaughter. Cain wasn't accused of murder nor committed accidental man slaughter, he deliberatly murdered his brother in a pre-concieved fashion and was guilty of his blood.

 

[evanom]

Not kidding at all. You just need to understand Scripture.

Paul, just about everyone in this thread has given very clear, concise and firmly biblical explanations on the topic. Why do you chose "new and improved" interpretations on something that is so simple and straightforward? Dont let people confuse youwith such "in depth" symbology where there is none (i.e. that whole "true sin in the Garden of Eden" business.)

 

[JohnDB]

THe assurtion that by murdeing his innocent brother Cain was given the status of a holy priest seperated onto God is really strange. Remember, the cities of refuge (that were decreed 2000 plus years AFTER the Cain incident), were not for harboring murderers. They were for accidental man slaughter. Cain wasn't accused of murder nor committed accidental man slaughter, he deliberatly murdered his brother in a pre-concieved fashion and was guilty of his blood.

I can understand how to some this concept of true repentance and a really good God giving full forgiveness is foreign.

God had told Adam to farm. So...the premier job was farming. Tending to the sheep and goats for clothing garments was the lesser job. Cain was farming as was his father...so they obviously had hopes that if Cain did as what God had told them all would be well and they could gain access back into the Garden in Eden. But when lowly Able surpassed Cain at giving time...it crushed Cain. He wanted to go back into the Garden too so he as well could walk with God.

This was the goal of mankind...to spend more time with God. They recognized the fact that God was good and they wanted more time with God. Cain was thought to be a possible "Seed" candidate.(Seed of the Woman) He was very careful to do all that he was told. When his murder of his brother was "discovered" it crushed him even more...he simply wanted to spend more time with God....get closer to God. He rightly viewed his actions as bringing more distance between God and not only himself but all of mankind.

Mankind was and is always slow on the real job and goal to have more time with God. Being a servant, being humble, being more giving natured....these are the things that will bring us closer to God. And for these attitudes that we truly hold God is extremely generous.

This theme is repeated over and over again in the bible with many stories paralleling this very theme in the actions of God and mankind. Especially with Jesus. .

And as far as the Levitical cities of Refuge...I understand your dilemma But the Torah was given at one time to the very people making those very cities. To them it wasn't out of order. The allusion to those types of cities is very clear in Hebrew...absolutely unmistakable. Most reputable exposition commentaries delineate this out...(commentaries explaining the grammar and vocabulary of what was written in the original language)

 

[Hamster]

When going through the lineage of Israel, Ishmael isn't mentioned. So does that mean that Ishmael isn't Abraham's son?
It said Can was the brother of Abel, so why isn't Cain Adam's son?

He might have had the spirit of the serpent when he killed abel, but he wasn't Satan's son

 

[Templar81]

When going through the lineage of Israel, Ishmael isn't mentioned. So does that mean that Ishmael isn't Abraham's son?
It said Can was the brother of Abel, so why isn't Cain Adam's son?

He might have had the spirit of the serpent when he killed abel, but he wasn't Satan's son

That's a good point. Thoise geneologies only recount direct lineages, they don't have offshhots.

Let's not also forget that there is enmity between the woman adnthe serpent so why would Eve become the lover of the erpent/devil.

One other thing of course is that we don't know for sure if the sperpent was the evil in disguise or just one of his minioons We don't know exactly if Satan took a snake and spoke through it or found a magic talking snake, or even if all animals in the garden could talk and the snake had been won over to the evil and was just doing his bidding.

Cain could ahve been posessed when he murdured Abel, I think that is definalty possible.

 

[Paul]

When going through the lineage of Israel, Ishmael isn't mentioned. So does that mean that Ishmael isn't Abraham's son?
It said Can was the brother of Abel, so why isn't Cain Adam's son?

He might have had the spirit of the serpent when he killed abel, but he wasn't Satan's son

Why would Ishmael be in Israel's line?

1Ch 1:27 Abram; the same is Abraham.
1Ch 1:28 The sons of Abraham; Isaac, and Ishmael.

Did you read: The True Sin in the Garden of Eden Bible Study? ( http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/447-the-true-sin-in-the-garden-of-eden-bible-study/ )

It does not matter to me if you do not believe it, but check it out for yourself. How are you going to learn the end if you can't see the beginning?

Cain is the brother of Able, that does not mean Cain is Adam's son. There were two seed donors in the garden.

Who sowed the bad seed in Matthew 13: 24-30?

 

[evanom]

I can understand how to some this concept of true repentance and a really good God giving full forgiveness is foreign.

God had told Adam to farm. So...the premier job was farming. Tending to the sheep and goats for clothing garments was the lesser job. Cain was farming as was his father...so they obviously had hopes that if Cain did as what God had told them all would be well and they could gain access back into the Garden in Eden. But when lowly Able surpassed Cain at giving time...it crushed Cain. He wanted to go back into the Garden too so he as well could walk with God.

This was the goal of mankind...to spend more time with God. They recognized the fact that God was good and they wanted more time with God. Cain was thought to be a possible "Seed" candidate.(Seed of the Woman) He was very careful to do all that he was told. When his murder of his brother was "discovered" it crushed him even more...he simply wanted to spend more time with God....get closer to God. He rightly viewed his actions as bringing more distance between God and not only himself but all of mankind.

Mankind was and is always slow on the real job and goal to have more time with God. Being a servant, being humble, being more giving natured....these are the things that will bring us closer to God. And for these attitudes that we truly hold God is extremely generous.

This theme is repeated over and over again in the bible with many stories paralleling this very theme in the actions of God and mankind. Especially with Jesus. .

And as far as the Levitical cities of Refuge...I understand your dilemma But the Torah was given at one time to the very people making those very cities. To them it wasn't out of order. The allusion to those types of cities is very clear in Hebrew...absolutely unmistakable. Most reputable exposition commentaries delineate this out...(commentaries explaining the grammar and vocabulary of what was written in the original language)

God told Adam to farm???? When did He do that? As for the rest of your post, i would assume you are willing to admit you don't assert these things to be fact as much as philosophy, right?

 

[Selene]

Why would Ishmael be in Israel's line?

1Ch 1:27 Abram; the same is Abraham.
1Ch 1:28 The sons of Abraham; Isaac, and Ishmael.

Did you read: The True Sin in the Garden of Eden Bible Study? ( http://www.christian...en-bible-study/ )

It does not matter to me if you do not believe it, but check it out for yourself. How are you going to learn the end if you can't see the beginning?

Cain is the brother of Able, that does not mean Cain is Adam's son. There were two seed donors in the garden.

Who sowed the bad seed in Matthew 13: 24-30?

Hello Paul,

Sacred Scripture plainly says that Adam had sexual intercourse with Eve and brought forth a son and called him Cain.

Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife: who conceived and brought forth Cain, saying: I have gotten a man through God.

The word "knew" in this particular verse means that Adam had sexual intercourse with Eve. There is nothing in Genesis that says that the serpent had sexual intercourse with Eve.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[Templar81]

It has just occoured to me that if Cain and Abel were born outside of the Garden of Eden then they might not be Adam and Eve's first children.

Genesis 3:16
To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

This implies that Eve probably had other children in the garden without pain. Then there is the bit about her desire being for her husband, so does that mean that she wasn't always faithful to Adam before the fall?

 

[Paul]

Hello Paul,

Sacred Scripture plainly says that Adam had sexual intercourse with Eve and brought forth a son and called him Cain.

Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife: who conceived and brought forth Cain, saying: I have gotten a man through God.

The word "knew" in this particular verse means that Adam had sexual intercourse with Eve. There is nothing in Genesis that says that the serpent had sexual intercourse with Eve.

In Christ,
Selene

OK, let's take a look at this together since you don't want to read the link I posted. You might need to think a little, sorry.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

Why could they eat of some trees but not of the ones in the center of the garden? Answer: those were not trees, often in Scripture men are described as trees.

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch (H5060) it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

They knew what sexual intercourse was and they knew what those "parts" were for so they tried to cover them with leaves..

Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
Gen 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled (H5377) me, and I did eat.
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed (H2233) and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception (H2032) ; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

H5060
נגע
nâga‛
naw-gah'
A primitive root; properly to touch, that is, lay the hand upon (for any purpose; euphemistically, to lie with a woman) ;

H5377
נשׁא
nâshâ'
naw-shaw'
A primitive root; to lead astray, that is, (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce: - beguile, deceive, X greatly, X utterly.

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled (G1818) Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

G1818
ἐξαπατάω
exapataō
ex-ap-at-ah'-o
From G1537 and G538; to seduce wholly: - beguile, deceive.


Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
Gen 4:2 And she again (H3254) bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

H3254
יסף
yâsaph
yaw-saf'
A primitive root; to add or augment (often adverbially to continue to do a thing)

Eve continued in labor and bore Abel. Cain and Abel were twins, they had the same mother but different fathers.

Now let's look at the parable of the wheat and tares: (Seed here is σπέρμα = SPERMA, I hope you know what that is)

Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Later Christ explains the parable to the twelve:

Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

This was the sin in the garden of Eden

Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


The Kenite are the children of Cain, and they are still with us today: some are running our schools, some are running our government, some our finances, and some are preaching in our churches and editing your Bible.

 

[Jonathan]

then the bible is being contradicting?

 

[Paul]

then the bible is being contradicting?

How? Or is it theSunday School Bible stories you were taught that are being contradicted?

 

[JohnDB]

Paul,

Try Galatians 3:16
There is a definite theme about the "Seed of the Woman" in Genesis...but it runs through the whole Old Testament.

This Seed is Christ...it is always singular and never plural.

The Blind Man who was Shouting "Son of David" was really shouting "Seed of David" and that is because David was the last one who was promised the Seed. To an individual in the Ancient Near East, Legacy was everything

And your typology of trees is all wrong as well. Trees represented nations and peoples...not individuals.

Israel was typified by the Fig Tree...(remember what kind of leaves Adam and Eve sewed together to clothe themselves with? What kind of tree did Jesus tell to whither before he gave the Olivet discourse?)

Cedars were for Lebanon. Oaks and Terbinth trees also had their nations...

Your Eisogesis of the scriptures really is astounding here.

As far as the other metaphors...well they are up for debate...but your conclusions will make you the focus of a Time-Life article if you ever get any followers.

 

[Paul]

...

And your typology of trees is all wrong as well. Trees represented nations and peoples...not individuals.

...

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is Satan, the Tree of Life is Christ.

But you do not have to believe me, you will find out. And again, you will not understand the end if you don't know the beginning.

 

[JohnDB]

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is Satan, the Tree of Life is Christ.

But you do not have to believe me, you will find out. And again, you will not understand the end if you don't know the beginning.

The first several years fruit of any fruit producing tree was given to God. This law was handed down in the Torah.
The "Tree of Knowledge of good and Evil" was not any one specific tree...it was several of them. Their produce belonged to God and Adam and Eve were not to eat of it. It was to be Given to God each year. (There were seasons)

Adam and Eve ate that year's produce from the "dedicated" new trees.

When they did that they lost their status as holy...and it really stood out to them once they saw it.. They saw their own individual vulnerabilities and the other's as well. They recognized their need for a covering to provide a holy appearance for themselves.

Sex with Satan never was any part of this story. It is something that is brought in by those with very poor hermeneutics skills and do not let scripture interpret scripture.



The Hebrew Word for God is Elohim...which is plural. Eloh is singular...

So saying that Jesus is the Tree of Life works very well for me in typology speech.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Y'all never got the memo, right?
Genesis is a metaphor?
The Garden is the human body - a tree turned upside down - the nervous system ---in the middle of the Garden
are the reproductive organs ---taste of the animalistic way of procreating and bingo - lose your ticket to the divine way of procreation - -the spiritual realm has now been placed in the backseat and the 3rd dimension ways take shotgun.

I know , now you all hate me bec I introduced a new way to view something you have believed the interpretation of for 50 years...yawn.

 

[Paul]

Y'all never got the memo, right?
Genesis is a metaphor?
The Garden is the human body - a tree turned upside down - the nervous system ---in the middle of the Garden
are the reproductive organs ---taste of the animalistic way of procreating and bingo - lose your ticket to the divine way of procreation - -the spiritual realm has now been placed in the backseat and the 3rd dimension ways take shotgun.

I know , now you all hate me bec I introduced a new way to view something you have believed the interpretation of for 50 years...yawn.

Totally false!

 

[Selene]

OK, let's take a look at this together since you don't want to read the link I posted. You might need to think a little, sorry.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

Why could they eat of some trees but not of the ones in the center of the garden? Answer: those were not trees, often in Scripture men are described as trees.

Okay.....so let's see if I understand this right. You are saying that those trees are really not trees but men. So, what you are saying is that God is instructing Adam and Eve that they can have sex with all the men in the garden except the one man that is standing in the middle of the garden? I thought God is in favor of one man - one woman concept and not into orgies. This is the first I heard.

Right now, I'm still stuck on this first one and I'm having trouble going past it. In order for me to understand the rest of what you say, I first need to understand why God told Adam and Eve that they can have sex with all those men except for the one in the middle of the garden. In the first place, isn't God against the act of homosexuality? Because this instruction was not just given to Eve, it was also given to Adam.