What happened to the 10 toes in Daniel 2?

[Douggg]

It was screamed but you do not hear.
If I tell you earthly things and you do not hear, how will you hear if I tell you heavenly things?......Jesus

Are you SDA or not ? Yes or no.

 

[quietthinker]

Are you SDA or not ? Yes or no.

Jesus had just fed thousands; he had just walked across the water and yet the people asked, '“What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? John 6:30

Are you as dull and uncomprehending as they were?

 

[Douggg]

Jesus had just fed thousands; he had just walked across the water and yet the people asked, '“What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? John 6:30

Are you as dull and uncomprehending as they were?

Are you SDA or not ? Yes or no.

 

[quietthinker]

Are you SDA or not ? Yes or no.

Is your ego that big or your discernment that poor that you can't come to an accurate conclusion?
Do you really need to be spoon fed? .... a man who considers himself to have sufficient smarts to figure out ancient prophecies. No wonder your 'exegesis' is a muddled mess!

 

[Douggg]

Is your ego that big or your discernment that poor that you can't come to an accurate conclusion?
Do you really need to be spoon fed? .... a man who considers himself to have sufficient smarts to figure out ancient prophecies. No wonder your 'exegesis' is a muddled mess!

Are you SDA or not ? Yes or no.

 

[CTK]

If you do not mind, let me try another approach:

Are the 4 beasts in chapter 7 the same as the 4 metal kingdoms in chapter 2?

Is the 4th metal kingdom in chapter 2 Rome (pagan or Imperial Rome) and the unidentifiable 4th beast in chapter 7 also Rome (pagan or Imperial Rome)?

Does verse 7:23 tell us in Gabriel's interpretation sequence the 4th beast will devour the whole earth... meaning Rome would conquer the known world - all nations?

Consequently, the only remaining beast at this time will be this 4th beast of pagan / Imperial Rome (the other "beasts" were essentially folded into the Roman Empire never to have dominion again).

Did Rome, pagan or Imperial Rome, in fact conquer all nations and was the dominant kingdom from 63 BC to 476 AD?

Is verse 7:11 telling us the "beast", the only beast of the original four (whether metal kingdoms or animals in chapter 7) was slain?
7:11 "I watched then because of the sound of the [f]pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain,

So who is this beast that was slain? Is it pagan / Imperial Rome? (and historically, in 476 AD, that is exactly what took place).


Therefore, it the 4th beast of pagan / Imperial Rome was slain in 476 A, then it is safe to say the 10 horns and the little horn came out of the 4th beast of pagan / Imperial Rome (had to be sometime betwen 63 BC and 476 AD when it was slain). In verses 7:7-8 Daniel tells us this 4th beast had 10 horns coming out of it and then later, another little horn coming out of it - of course this means they both came out of this 4th beast prior to its demise in 476 AD (7:11).

Look forward to your comments...

 

[Jay Ross]

Are the 4 beasts in chapter 7 the same as the 4 metal kingdoms in chapter 2?

No. It just helps some people to justify their private understandings of the scriptures

Is the 4th metal kingdom in chapter 2 Rome (pagan or Imperial Rome) and the unidentifiable 4th beast in chapter 7 also Rome (pagan or Imperial Rome)?

No. The Roman Empire had no dominion over the land of Babylon as the Greek Seleucid Empire had around 60 years earlier, devasted and desolated the land of Babylon for a period of around 2,048 years before the Land of Babylon was remembered before God in 1926 by the British and French governments when they divided up the Middle Eastern Otterman empire and formed new nations with the nation of Iraq being given dominion over the Land of Babylon. The claiming that the Roman Empire had dominion over the Land of Babylon was used by at the time of the Reformation Fathers to demonise the RCC so that they had justification to break away from the RCC.

Does verse 7:23 tell us in Gabriel's interpretation sequence the 4th beast will devour the whole earth... meaning Rome would conquer the known world - all nations?

Consequently, the only remaining beast at this time will be this 4th beast of pagan / Imperial Rome (the other "beasts" were essentially folded into the Roman Empire never to have dominion again).

No.

Did Rome, pagan or Imperial Rome, in fact conquer all nations and was the dominant kingdom from 63 BC to 476 AD?

Yes, but they never gained dominion over the land of Babylon as it had been devastated and desolated by the Greeks around the year 120 BC.

Jeremaih 50 gives us insight into what happened in the Land of Babylon from the time of the Greek empire having dominion over the land up and until 2003 AD when the USA and many other kings obtained dominion over the Land of Babylon when they invaded Iraq.

Scholarship is required to be also to see the above truth.

 

[CTK]

No. It just helps some people to justify their private understandings of the scriptures



No. The Roman Empire had no dominion over the land of Babylon as the Greek Seleucid Empire had around 60 years earlier, devasted and desolated the land of Babylon for a period of around 2,048 years before the Land of Babylon was remembered before God in 1926 by the British and French governments when they divided up the Middle Eastern Otterman empire and formed new nations with the nation of Iraq being given dominion over the Land of Babylon. The claiming that the Roman Empire had dominion over the Land of Babylon was used by at the time of the Reformation Fathers to demonise the RCC so that they had justification to break away from the RCC.



No.



Yes, but they never gained dominion over the land of Babylon as it had been devastated and desolated by the Greeks around the year 120 BC.

Jeremaih 50 gives us insight into what happened in the Land of Babylon from the time of the Greek empire having dominion over the land up and until 2003 AD when the USA and many other kings obtained dominion over the Land of Babylon when they invaded Iraq.

Scholarship is required to be also to see the above truth.

Did you answer these?


Is verse 7:11 telling us the "beast", the only beast of the original four (whether metal kingdoms or animals in chapter 7) was slain?
7:11 "I watched then because of the sound of the [f]pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain,

So who is this beast that was slain? Is it pagan / Imperial Rome? (and historically, in 476 AD, that is exactly what took place).


Therefore, it the 4th beast of pagan / Imperial Rome was slain in 476 A, then it is safe to say the 10 horns and the little horn came out of the 4th beast of pagan / Imperial Rome (had to be sometime betwen 63 BC and 476 AD when it was slain). In verses 7:7-8 Daniel tells us this 4th beast had 10 horns coming out of it and then later, another little horn coming out of it - of course this means they both came out of this 4th beast prior to its demise in 476 AD (7:11).

 

[Jay Ross]

Did you answer these?


Is verse 7:11 telling us the "beast", the only beast of the original four (whether metal kingdoms or animals in chapter 7) was slain?
7:11 "I watched then because of the sound of the [f]pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain,

So who is this beast that was slain? Is it pagan / Imperial Rome? (and historically, in 476 AD, that is exactly what took place).


Therefore, it the 4th beast of pagan / Imperial Rome was slain in 476 A, then it is safe to say the 10 horns and the little horn came out of the 4th beast of pagan / Imperial Rome (had to be sometime between 63 BC and 476 AD when it was slain). In verses 7:7-8 Daniel tells us this 4th beast had 10 horns coming out of it and then later, another little horn coming out of it - of course this means they both came out of this 4th beast prior to its demise in 476 AD (7:11).

When did the Little Horn become prominent in the scriptures? Around the time just after the death of Alexandra the Great. In Daniel 8, the Little Horn was given armies to trample both God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts for a period of 2,300 years which will end when the kings of the earth gather together at Armageddon to be judged by God.

The dominate problem is the lack of understanding that the beasts and the Little horn of Daniel 7 are all wicked fallen heavenly hosts just like Satan is. The beasts are not kingdoms or empires as many claim.

 

[CTK]

When did the Little Horn become prominent in the scriptures? Around the time just after the death of Alexandra the Great. In Daniel 8, the Little Horn was given armies to trample both God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts for a period of 2,300 years which will end when the kings of the earth gather together at Armageddon to be judged by God.

The dominate problem is the lack of understanding that the beasts and the Little horn of Daniel 7 are all wicked fallen heavenly hosts just like Satan is. The beasts are not kingdoms or empires as many claim.

I believe the scripures, specifically chapter 7 clearly identify the timing of both the 10 horns and a little later, the little horn as they come out of Imperial or pagan Rome. And as you know, pagan Rome saw its demise in 476 AD, thus, both were present before the "beast was slain" in 7:11..... pretty clear I believe. The little horn in chapter 8 is of course the same as the little horn of chapter 7 but God is revealing so much more about him than in chapter 7. And that is important since he is said in Daniel to continue until the end of time when he will be destroyed without human hands - it does not say whatsoever that he will come at the time of the end.... he has been here for 1500 years and counting.

Where is the Messiah in your Daniel? Do you see Him in chapter 8 - the 2300 year mareh vision? Do you see Him in the chazon vision which covers from 457 BC to 33/4 AD? Do you see Him in chapter 9 - verses 24-27? Do you see Him in chapter 10 when He visits Daniel after the 70 years of exile have been completed? Do you see Him in chapter 11 when He arrives at the beginning of the first day of the 70th weeks of years prophecy? Do you see Him in chapter 12 in the 1290 and 1335 days prophecy?

The entire book of Daniel is about the Messiah as told as His people are sent to exile and their restoration back to Jerusalem.... it is all about HIm... Daniel is written for His people and His city and hopefully, they would have all they would need to be ready and expect the coming Messiah in thel last week of the prophecy...

Daniel is not a history book but God would bring forth 4 and only 4 kingdoms within our history where He would place every single prophecy from 606 BC to His return. But the kingdoms are not the story - He is the story......

 

[Jay Ross]

I believe the scriptures, specifically chapter 7 clearly identify the timing of both the 10 horns and a little later, the little horn as they come out of Imperial or pagan Rome.

You are welcome to hold to this view, but the little horn is present much earlier than the Roman Empire and is mentioned as being present during the Grecian Empires after the death of Alexandra the Great.

Now, the Beasts and the Little Horn are able people, people groups, kingdoms, nations and Empires to inhabit their respective dominions and manifest their respective dominate characteristic. We can see this unfolding through man's history as different people, people groups, kingdoms, nations and Empires ebb and flow in and out of the respective dominions of the heavenly fallen hosts which are the real beasts of the Book of Daniel.

The rest of your rebuttal needs no comment as you have hidden the actual "beasts" from sight by draping the "beast" label over people, people groups, kingdoms, nations and Empires and therefore hiding the true beasts of the scriptures in plain sight.

 

[CTK]

You are welcome to hold to this view, but the little horn is present much earlier than the Roman Empire and is mentioned as being present during the Grecian Empires after the death of Alexandra the Great.

Now, the Beasts and the Little Horn are able people, people groups, kingdoms, nations and Empires to inhabit their respective dominions and manifest their respective dominate characteristic. We can see this unfolding through man's history as different people, people groups, kingdoms, nations and Empires ebb and flow in and out of the respective dominions of the heavenly fallen hosts which are the real beasts of the Book of Daniel.

The rest of your rebuttal needs no comment as you have hidden the actual "beasts" from sight by draping the "beast" label over people, people groups, kingdoms, nations and Empires and therefore hiding the true beasts of the scriptures in plain sight.

Where is the Messiah in all of that?

 

[Jay Ross]

Where is the Messiah in all of that?

This a misdirection from what I posted.

Your theological misdirection as to the entity type of the beasts and the Little Horn is of far greater peril by continuing to hide the true entity type of Satan and his cohorts, the four beasts and the Little Horn. They are all wicked fallen and rebelling heavenly hosts.

 

[CTK]

This a misdirection from what I posted.

Your theological misdirection as to the entity type of the beasts and the Little Horn is of far greater peril by continuing to hide the true entity type of Satan and his cohorts, the four beasts and the Little Horn. They are all wicked fallen and rebelling heavenly hosts.

I have attempted to ask straightforward questions that have come right out of chapter 7 .... I also have repeatedly asked you to provide me with an understanding of where is the Messiah in the latter chapters of your interpretation in the book Daniel....

It is not going to happen and I thank you for sharing your thoughts.. best wishes.

 

[Jay Ross]

I have attempted to ask straightforward questions that have come right out of chapter 7 .... I also have repeatedly asked you to provide me with an understanding of where is the Messiah in the latter chapters of your interpretation in the book Daniel.

Daniel 9:24b, 25, 26a from memory.

 

[Douggg]

When did the Little Horn become prominent in the scriptures? Around the time just after the death of Alexandra the Great. In Daniel 8, the Little Horn was given armies to trample both God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts for a period of 2,300 years which will end when the kings of the earth gather together at Armageddon to be judged by God.

It says 2300 days, not years, in Daniel 8:14.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

 

[Douggg]

Your theological misdirection as to the entity type of the beasts and the Little Horn is of far greater peril by continuing to hide the true entity type of Satan and his cohorts, the four beasts and the Little Horn. They are all wicked fallen and rebelling heavenly hosts.

The little horn person will be a man, not a fallen angel.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[Davy]

The little horn person will be a man, not a fallen angel.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

That's what those still dwelling on the old Reformer's beliefs think, but it is not Biblical.

Per Genesis 1:26-27, just where did the image of man originate? ANSWER: from GOD's Own Image Likeness. He created the angels with that image of man also.

Thus in reality, the idea that the coming Antichrist must be a 'flesh' man is planted disinformation. It CAN be a fallen angel, specifically Satan, here on earth, in plain sight, working those great signs and wonders that will deceive the whole world, except Christ's elect.

Even God's parable about Satan in Ezekiel 28 reveals in verse 18 that God is going to destroy Satan by a fire that will start within himself, in sight of all those who see it, ON EARTH.

Ezek 28:18
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
KJV

 

[Douggg]

Even God's parable about Satan in Ezekiel 28 reveals in verse 18 that God is going to destroy Satan by a fire that will start within himself, in sight of all those who see it, ON EARTH.

Ezek 28:18
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

Davy, Satan will indwell the statue image of the beast-king. Making it appear to come to life and speak.

When Jesus returns, He will cause that statue image to burst into flames, turned to ashes. And there will be Satan exposed there on the temple mount.

The beast-king (the Antichrist person) will be cast into the lake of fire at that time, Revelation 19:20. And Satan cast into the bottomless pit, Revelation 20:1-3.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

In Daniel 2, God identified the 4 metal kingdoms in His plan of salvation and restoration for His people and mankind. The four kingdoms are quite easily identified (IMO), as:

1) Gold - Babylon,

2) Silver - Medes- Persia,

3) Bronze - Greece,

4) Iron - Rome

Now, we easily can see that God's 4 kingdoms are all constructer of a different metal type.

But within the 4th iron kingdom of Rome, He places a non-metallic element within the feet of this kingdom - clay. And certainly, we all know that clay and any metal does not combine.

In the beginning of chapter 7, God gives us a new set of symbols for these same 4 kingdoms, but now we notice there has been some significant changes, apart from the different symbol, to the iron kingdom. Now, we see an unidentifiable 4th beast kingdom with 10 horns coming out of it. No more mention of the clay and no more mention of the 10 toes.

So what happend to the 10 toes?

Rome ruled the whole world until it fell. Never again has there been a world ruling nation. Some countries are weak, and some like iron like the United States and England. And the world will stay separated until the second coming. After 1000 years the earth will be destroyed and there will again be a perfect heaven and earth.