What happens at Death?

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Webers_Home

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Ps 115:17-18 . .The dead do not praise The Lord, nor do any who go
down into silence. But as for us, we will bless The Lord from this time forth
and forever.

The "dead" in that verse are different than a corpse. It pertains to folks who
prefer self-importance over the importance of a supreme being. (cf. Ps 2:1-3)

"any who go down into silence" tells us that they might just as well be mute
in the afterlife because The Lord no longer lends them His ear; they're
permanently cut off from His benevolence, viz: The Lord has no interest
whatsoever in either their worship nor their prayers, i.e. they are dead to
Him; and as far as He's concerned they're like old documents disposed in the
shredder because they no longer matter.
_
 
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michaelvpardo

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The scriptures tell us Jesus slept in death for three days. The scriptures also say that those that will be resurrected after Jesus went into heaven will be resurrected during Jesus second presence. So the scriptures let us know that the man who died beside Jesus will be resurrected during the second presence of Jesus Christ. I'll listen to what the scriptures say because that's what God is telling us.
Jesus' body is God's chosen tabernacle. That body had limitations, but God never did. You’re very selective about which scriptures you believe. Jesus said:
"Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43

So was Jesus mistaken? Did the true and faithful witness lie?

Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me. Hebrews 10:5


OK, Barney, who is the "body" and who is the "Me?"
 

bbyrd009

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Christina didn't format her verse correctly for the reference on this site, but try 2 Corinthians 5:8. It should be understood that the verse only applies to those who have believed the gospel and received Christ by faith.
wadr you might be as willing as you like—in ref to 2Cor5:8—but that does not mean you will be going anywhere, does it? Hence why “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord” cannot be Quoted either…

“we are cock-sure, i tell you, and even wish that we were already dead, and partying with Jesus” which isnt the point of the passage anyway, at least idt
 

Webers_Home

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I've been under anesthesia for a total of eight treatments-- appendicitis,
hernia twice, a kidney stone, a scalp lump, total knee replacement twice,
and a colonoscopy. In none of those procedures was I aware of the passage
of time. So if soul sleep is anything like that; then the moment I pass away
will seem a simultaneous transition to the rapture.
_
 
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michaelvpardo

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wadr you might be as willing as you like—in ref to 2Cor5:8—but that does not mean you will be going anywhere, does it? Hence why “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord” cannot be Quoted either…

“we are cock-sure, i tell you, and even wish that we were already dead, and partying with Jesus” which isnt the point of the passage anyway, at least idt
2 Corinthians 5:8 is what Christians quote (in part) but in application to themselves, which is a reasonable assumption. Eg. God is no respector of men, Paul was no Enoch or Elijah, and if we are of one body, then we end up in the same place.
The RCC introduced some novel concepts like limbo and purgatory, but these are by no means found in scripture.

What is found, however, is this:
"In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also."
John 14:2-3

Those who love the Lord want to be where He is, heaven, hell, or the carnal equivalent, Earth. And that is His promise.
We reckon things in days, years, ages, etc., but time is a created thing and God is time's creator. Death for the Christian is compared to sleep, but though we dream as a function of our physical body, time does not operate in dreams as it does in life. I've had epic dreams in what couldn't have been more than a few minutes. I'm not suggesting that the dead dream because dreams are a function of our brains which die. However, when you pass and reopen your eyes it will have to be in the resurrection and at the judgment, either the judgment of the righteous or at the great white throne judgment.
If you don't believe what scripture says, I can't answer your belief, or lack of it. However, the word says what it says.
 

Taken

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Adam "became a living soul," not that God "put" a living soul into him. That is fair to say.

Not true.

Gen 2:
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Jesus' body is God's chosen tabernacle. That body had limitations, but God never did. You’re very selective about which scriptures you believe. Jesus said:
"Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43

So was Jesus mistaken? Did the true and faithful witness lie?

Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me. Hebrews 10:5


OK, Barney, who is the "body" and who is the "Me?"

Jesus isn't YHWH God, he's the only begotten son of YHWH God. The only begotten son of YHWH God was in heaven with YHWH God before YHWH God sent him to the world of mankind. So Hebrews 10:5 is saying, YHWH God prepared a "body" for his only begotten son. The only begotten son of God is "Me."
You're saying I'm very selective, but actually I'm just staying within written scripture, what God inspired men to write down. The scripture, Luke 23:43 when God inspired it to be written down, at that time had no punctuation marks such as a comma. But that's how you view that scripture is where a man put a punctuation mark such as a comma in that particular scripture. The problem is that person whoever he was that placed that comma where he placed it, placed it there according to his belief not according to what the rest of the scriptures say about Jesus. Scriptures says that Jesus slept in death for parts of three days.That means as a living person the only begotten Son of YHWH God didn't exist as a living person for parts of three days. So no, that man that died beside Jesus didn't see Jesus in paradise the very day he died. Jesus Christ isn't YHWH God, he's the only begotten son of YHWH God

This is how Luke 23:43 is in whatever translation you got it from, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."
First of all, are you trying to teach that this man who died beside Jesus went to heaven before Jesus? Because Jesus made it very clear at John 20:17 That he hadn't went to heaven yet, in fact it was 40 days after Jesus was resurrected that he went into heaven. Are you saying Jesus lied when he said he hadn't ascended to his father yet at John 20:17? Jesus ascending means he hadn't ascended into heaven yet, because that's where his Father who is YHWH God lives.

Luke 23:43 being translated, "truly I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise. Putting the comma after the word today, completely agrees with what Jesus was saying, and consistent with the rest of the scriptures.
 
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michaelvpardo

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Jesus isn't YHWH God, he's the only begotten son of YHWH God. The only begotten son of YHWH God was in heaven with YHWH God before YHWH God sent him to the world of mankind. So Hebrews 10:5 is saying, YHWH God prepared a "body" for his only begotten son. The only begotten son of God is "Me."
You're saying I'm very selective, but actually I'm just staying within written scripture, what God inspired men to write down. The scripture, Luke 23:43 when God inspired it to be written down, at that time had no punctuation marks such as a comma. But that's how you view that scripture is where a man put a punctuation mark such as a comma in that particular scripture. The problem is that person whoever he was that placed that comma where he placed it, placed it there according to his belief not according to what the rest of the scriptures say about Jesus. Scriptures says that Jesus slept in death for parts of three days.That means as a living person the only begotten Son of YHWH God didn't exist as a living person for parts of three days. So no, that man that died beside Jesus didn't see Jesus in paradise the very day he died. Jesus Christ isn't YHWH God, he's the only begotten son of YHWH God

This is how Luke 23:43 is in whatever translation you got it from, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."
First of all, are you trying to teach that this man who died beside Jesus went to heaven before Jesus? Because Jesus made it very clear at John 20:17 That he hadn't went to heaven yet, in fact it was 40 days after Jesus was resurrected that he went into heaven. Are you saying Jesus lied when he said he hadn't ascended to his father yet at John 20:17? Jesus ascending means he hadn't ascended into heaven yet, because that's where his Father who is YHWH God lives.

Luke 23:43 being translated, "truly I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise. Putting the comma after the word today, completely agrees with what Jesus was saying, and consistent with the rest of the scriptures.
No, I don't have a reading comprehension problem. Jesus said "today you will be in paradise with me", not I say to you today. That's absurd. Why would such a phrase as "I say to you today" even be used? Do you think that the creator of the universe, God incarnate, didn't know that He was speaking in the present tense, or had to clarify that He didn't say it yesterday or a week ago?
Stop rewriting scripture.
If no one has seen God at any time, what God did the old testament saints see?
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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No, I don't have a reading comprehension problem. Jesus said "today you will be in paradise with me", not I say to you today. That's absurd. Why would such a phrase as "I say to you today" even be used? Do you think that the creator of the universe, God incarnate, didn't know that He was speaking in the present tense, or had to clarify that He didn't say it yesterday or a week ago?
Stop rewriting scripture.
If no one has seen God at any time, what God did the old testament saints see?

I know that the scriptures don't lie and it's the scriptures I'm going to stick with and they say Jesus was sleeping in death for parts of three days. So since Jesus was sleeping in death for parts of three days, the man who died beside Jesus didn't see Jesus in paradise that very day he died.
 

michaelvpardo

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I know that the scriptures don't lie and it's the scriptures I'm going to stick with and they say Jesus was sleeping in death for parts of three days. So since Jesus was sleeping in death for parts of three days, the man who died beside Jesus didn't see Jesus in paradise that very day he died.
The scriptures say that no one has seen God, so what God did the old testament saints like Abraham, Moses, and the wife of Manoah see?
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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The scriptures say that no one has seen God, so what God did the old testament saints like Abraham, Moses, and the wife of Manoah see?

I understand that the scriptures say no one has seen God, but that doesn't change what the scriptures say. Jesus was sleeping in death for three days. So the man who died beside Jesus, didn't see paradise with Jesus the same day that he died.
 

BeyondET

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I've been under anesthesia for a total of eight treatments-- appendicitis,
hernia twice, a kidney stone, a scalp lump, total knee replacement twice,
and a colonoscopy. In none of those procedures was I aware of the passage
of time. So if soul sleep is anything like that; then the moment I pass away
will seem a simultaneous transition to the rapture.
_
Just regular sleeping is like that, interesting thing about the human mind from birth it never stops thinking like the heart never stops beating while being alive in the flesh. Even being sedated can't stop the thought process in the mind. the mind doesn't forget anything but it's hard to Tap into consciously.
 

BeyondET

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I understand that the scriptures say no one has seen God, but that doesn't change what the scriptures say. Jesus was sleeping in death for three days. So the man who died beside Jesus, didn't see paradise with Jesus the same day that he died.
Technically Jesus mentions the experience liken to Jonah who was alive in the whale.
 
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michaelvpardo

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I understand that the scriptures say no one has seen God, but that doesn't change what the scriptures say. Jesus was sleeping in death for three days. So the man who died beside Jesus, didn't see paradise with Jesus the same day that he died.
If you can't reconcile scripture to itself, and you obviously can't, then you don't have the teacher, the Holy Spirit.
I know that you have a heart for the truth, but you haven't entered the narrow gate. The scripture agrees with itself entirely, but from the perspective of God, not to the carnal mind. You can have the mind of Christ but will never be of His body until you recognize Him as Yah. That is the rock upon which His church is built. All others that enter His kingdom another way are thieves and liars. They will not remain because of the curse described in Zechariah chapter 5.
I have hope for you, but there's nothing sadder than a person standing before an open door who wants to be inside but will not enter for fear or for pride.
 

Webers_Home

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Jonah 1:17 . . Jehovah appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, so that
Jonah came to be in the inward parts of the fish three days and three nights.


FAQ: Was Jonah alive in the fish?

REPLY: Yes. (Jonah 2:1)

FAQ: The whole time?

REPLY: No.

FAQ: So you think Jonah died in the fish?

REPLY: Jonah 2:5-7 strongly suggests that he drowned prior to being swallowed
by the big fish. In other words; there's cause to believe he wasn't buried
alive: same as Jesus; he wasn't buried alive either.


FAQ: The story claims Jonah prayed from within the fish. How would that be
possible if he was dead?


REPLY: Jonah's recorded prayer was spoken very close to the end of his
adventure: the bulk of those three days and three nights were practically
over and done with already. In other words; his recorded prayer fills in the
blanks.

For a portion of his time, Jonah was in a place called sheol (Jonah 2:2) which
he located at the bottoms of the mountains (Jonah 2:6) and from which he
prayed an unrecorded prayer.

Well; the bottoms of the mountains aren't located in the tummies of fish, no;
they're located deep underground. So, the only way that Jonah could possibly
be at the bottoms of the mountains while simultaneously in a fish was for
the man and his body to part company and go their separate ways.

Also, the language of Jonah's recorded prayer strongly suggests that he
underwent a resurrection.

"But out of the pit you proceeded to bring up my life, O Jehovah my God."
(Jonah 2:6)

The Hebrew word for "pit" in that verse speaks of putrefaction.

The very same Hebrew word is located in Ps 16:8-10, which Acts 2:25-31
verifies is speaking of a dead body.


FAQ: Why should we care whether Jonah was dead or alive?

REPLY: There are well-meaning folk at large insisting that human life is
entirely physical, viz: when people die they go out of existence. But Jonah's
prayer-- not the one he prayed from inside the fish, rather, the one he
prayed while down at the bottoms of the mountains --strongly suggests that
he was existing beyond the demise of his body; which likewise suggests that
Jesus was existing beyond the demise of his body too because he likened his
own afterlife experience to Jonah's.

Matthew 12:40 . . Just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of
the sea monster, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in
the heart of the earth.

The Greek word translated "heart" is kardia (kar-dee'-ah) which very often
refers to the middle, i.e. the center. For example:

Matthew 15:19 . . Out of the heart come forth evil thoughts, murders,
adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, railings

In other words: those kinds of activities originate at the very core of one's
being, i.e. their center.

Now when you think about it, Jesus' corpse wasn't laid to rest in the heart of
the earth. In point of fact it was laid to rest on the surface. So in order for
Jesus to be in two places simultaneously, the man and his body had to part
company and go their separate ways.

* Even if it were true that when ordinary people die they go out of existence, it
would certainly not be true for Jesus Christ.

John 5:26 . . Just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the
Son also to have life in himself.

Can the Father be taken out of existence? If not, then neither can the Son
be taken out of existence because the existence of both is maintained by the
very same kind of life.


NOTE: With a little careful sleuthing, it's possible to detect Jonah praying
three separate times: in the ocean, in sheol, and in the fish.
_
 
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Davy

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All I see that's being said here is that the scripture Genesis 2:7 itself is being ignored concerning what it actually says. Genesis 2:7 is teaching us that God took dust from the ground and formed it into a flesh and blood human body, then God blew the breath of life(spirit) into that flesh and blood human body and when God blew the breath of life(spirit) into that flesh and blood human body that flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person.
People can ignore this here but they're ignoring what God inspired Moses to be written down.

I rest my case on how the Jews hold to the false tradition that our 'soul' is part of our flesh, when it is not (Matthew 10:28 again!). Even Genesis 6:3 reveals God admitting that man (Adam) "also is flesh"; also flesh and what? Like the Ecclesiastes 12:7 verse shows, we are flesh plus spirit, and those are two separate operations.

The New Testament, those Scriptures I quoted, are clear, that our 'soul' leaves our flesh at flesh death. And our soul is attached with our spirit, because in 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4, he was NOT pointing to Jesus preaching to familiar spirits or demons like some Jews like to say. Jesus was preaching to men that had died in the flesh.
 

Davy

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What happens at Death?
Genesis 3:19
'By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return'.

New Testament believers, CALLED CHRISTIANS, know more than those who rely strictly on the Old Testament...

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

KJV
 

quietthinker

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New Testament believers, CALLED CHRISTIANS, know more than those who rely strictly on the Old Testament...

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

KJV
so do we pit scripture against scripture? and leave it at that.....or is there another angle which reconciles the two?
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Technically Jesus mentions the experience liken to Jonah who was alive in the whale.

You can't go exactly by what it says about Jonah, because it says that Jonah was in the whale three days and three nights, however Jesus was only in Hades parts of three days. Not three full days and
If you can't reconcile scripture to itself, and you obviously can't, then you don't have the teacher, the Holy Spirit.
I know that you have a heart for the truth, but you haven't entered the narrow gate. The scripture agrees with itself entirely, but from the perspective of God, not to the carnal mind. You can have the mind of Christ but will never be of His body until you recognize Him as Yah. That is the rock upon which His church is built. All others that enter His kingdom another way are thieves and liars. They will not remain because of the curse described in Zechariah chapter 5.
I have hope for you, but there's nothing sadder than a person standing before an open door who wants to be inside but will not enter for fear or for pride.

The scriptures are a product of God's Holy Spirit so seems to me that you do not want people to believe the scriptures that were inspired by God but instead you want people to believe you no matter what God inspired men to write down. I'm going to go by what the scriptures say not what you're saying because I disagree that you are staying in scripture.
 

BeyondET

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Jonah 1:17 . . Jehovah appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, so that
Jonah came to be in the inward parts of the fish three days and three nights.


FAQ: Was Jonah alive in the fish?

REPLY: Yes. (Jonah 2:1)

FAQ: The whole time?

REPLY: No.

FAQ: So you think Jonah died in the fish?

REPLY: Jonah 2:5-7 strongly suggests that he drowned prior to being swallowed
by the big fish. In other words; there's cause to believe he wasn't buried
alive: same as Jesus; he wasn't buried alive either.


FAQ: The story claims Jonah prayed from within the fish. How would that be
possible if he was dead?


REPLY: Jonah's recorded prayer was spoken very close to the end of his
adventure: the bulk of those three days and three nights were practically
over and done with already. In other words; his recorded prayer fills in the
blanks.

For a portion of his time, Jonah was in a place called sheol (Jonah 2:2) which
he located at the bottoms of the mountains (Jonah 2:6) and from which he
prayed an unrecorded prayer.

Well; the bottoms of the mountains aren't located in the tummies of fish, no;
they're located deep underground. So, the only way that Jonah could possibly
be at the bottoms of the mountains while simultaneously in a fish was for
the man and his body to part company and go their separate ways.

Also, the language of Jonah's recorded prayer strongly suggests that he
underwent a resurrection.

"But out of the pit you proceeded to bring up my life, O Jehovah my God."
(Jonah 2:6)

The Hebrew word for "pit" in that verse speaks of putrefaction.

The very same Hebrew word is located in Ps 16:8-10, which Acts 2:25-31
verifies is speaking of a dead body.


FAQ: Why should we care whether Jonah was dead or alive?

REPLY: There are well-meaning folk at large insisting that human life is
entirely physical, viz: when people die they go out of existence. But Jonah's
prayer-- not the one he prayed from inside the fish, rather, the one he
prayed while down at the bottoms of the mountains --strongly suggests that
he was existing beyond the demise of his body; which likewise suggests that
Jesus was existing beyond the demise of his body too because he likened his
own afterlife experience to Jonah's.

Matthew 12:40 . . Just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of
the sea monster, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in
the heart of the earth.

The Greek word translated "heart" is kardia (kar-dee'-ah) which very often
refers to the middle, i.e. the center. For example:

Matthew 15:19 . . Out of the heart come forth evil thoughts, murders,
adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, railings

In other words: those kinds of activities originate at the very core of one's
being, i.e. their center.

Now when you think about it, Jesus' corpse wasn't laid to rest in the heart of
the earth. In point of fact it was laid to rest on the surface. So in order for
Jesus to be in two places simultaneously, the man and his body had to part
company and go their separate ways.

* Even if it were true that when ordinary people die they go out of existence, it
would certainly not be true for Jesus Christ.

John 5:26 . . Just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the
Son also to have life in himself.

Can the Father be taken out of existence? If not, then neither can the Son
be taken out of existence because the existence of both is maintained by the
very same kind of life.


NOTE: With a little careful sleuthing, it's possible to detect Jonah praying three separate times: in the ocean, in sheol, and in the fish.
_
Nice write, I agree Jonah died physically interesting that he could speak a voice or possibly thoughts and his life was in the pit.