What happens at Death?

[BeyondET]

You can't go exactly by what it says about Jonah, because it says that Jonah was in the whale three days and three nights, however Jesus was only in Hades parts of three days. Not three full days and


The scriptures are a product of God's Holy Spirit so seems to me that you do not want people to believe the scriptures that were inspired by God but instead you want people to believe you no matter what God inspired men to write down. I'm going to go by what the scriptures say not what you're saying because I disagree that you are staying in scripture.

I agree some of what you mentioned 3pm to 6pm is one day not a quarter and before at night being arrested is liken to teeth.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I rest my case on how the Jews hold to the false tradition that our 'soul' is part of our flesh, when it is not (Matthew 10:28 again!). Even Genesis 6:3 reveals God admitting that man (Adam) "also is flesh"; also flesh and what? Like the Ecclesiastes 12:7 verse shows, we are flesh plus spirit, and those are two separate operations.

The New Testament, those Scriptures I quoted, are clear, that our 'soul' leaves our flesh at flesh death. And our soul is attached with our spirit, because in 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4, he was NOT pointing to Jesus preaching to familiar spirits or demons like some Jews like to say. Jesus was preaching to men that had died in the flesh.

You're the one ignoring Genesis 2:7 which is telling us that human beings are living souls not that they have living souls.

 

[michaelvpardo]

You can't go exactly by what it says about Jonah, because it says that Jonah was in the whale three days and three nights, however Jesus was only in Hades parts of three days. Not three full days and


The scriptures are a product of God's Holy Spirit so seems to me that you do not want people to believe the scriptures that were inspired by God but instead you want people to believe you no matter what God inspired men to write down. I'm going to go by what the scriptures say not what you're saying because I disagree that you are staying in scripture.

The scriptures say that no one has seen God, so what God did the old testament saints like Abraham, Moses, and the wife of Manoah see?

 

[Davy]

You're the one ignoring Genesis 2:7 which is telling us that human beings are living souls not that they have living souls.

You simply don't know what you are talking about, because the 'breath' was involved in God's putting a 'soul' into Adam's flesh.

Gen 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
KJV

Before God 'breathed' that "breath of life" into Adam, his flesh was nothing but material matter from the earth. That reveals that the "breath of life" is NOT PART OF THE FLESH EARTHLY MATTER!

Lord Jesus even revealed this in John 3 also, and you just like Nicodemus, have difficulty understanding this...

John 3:6-8
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
KJV

Material matter is... material matter, and nothing else, meaning it is NOT spirit.

And that of Spirit is spirit. Those are two totally separate operations!

That is why Jesus showed that which is born of the flesh IS flesh. But that which is born of the Spirit is... flesh??? NO WAY! Jesus said it is spirit!

This is also why Solomon in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 mentioned the existence of a "silver cord" connecting one's flesh with their... flesh? NO! With their spirit!

Those who do not understand this don't understand that other dimension of Spirit where God and the angels exist. Apostle John even showed that "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24).

And those who die in their flesh leave their flesh behind, and go into the heavenly dimension of spirit. That is why Jesus at His resurrection went and preached The Gospel to the "spirits in prison" of flesh men that had died back to the days of Noah. No way He could have done that as written unless the 'spirits' of those dead flesh men survive to manifest in the heavenly dimension.

1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

6 For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
KJV

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Davy said,
You simply don't know what you are talking about, because the 'breath' was involved in God's putting a 'soul' into Adam's flesh.

Gen 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.[/QUOTE \]

You're disagreeing with Genesis 2:7 when you say, "because the 'breath' was involved in God's putting a 'soul' into Adam's flesh." When you make a statement like that, you're saying God gave man a soul and Genesis 2:7 doesn't say that God gave man a soul. Genesis 2:7 doesn't say anywhere that God gave the first human being a soul. The flesh blood human body is a soul, whether it be a living soul or dead soul. If the flesh and blood human body doesn't have the breath(spirit) of life in that flesh and blood human body then that flesh and blood human body is not a living soul or living person but instead is a dead soul or dead person. (Numbers 6:6) So Genesis 2:7 teaches us that God formed from the dust of the ground a flesh and blood human body then blew the breath(spirit)of life, into that flesh and blood human body and the flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person. So for anyone to teach that the breath(spirit) of life is the soul they're incorrect for teaching this because the scriptures don't teach us this. The human being is a dead soul if the breath(spirit) of life isn't in the human body and if the breath(spirit) of life is in the human body then the human being is a living soul. So to repeat, the human body is a living soul or living person if the breath(spirit) of life is in the human body but if the breath of life isn't in the human body then the human body is a dead soul or dead person.

 

[Davy]

Davy said,
You simply don't know what you are talking about, because the 'breath' was involved in God's putting a 'soul' into Adam's flesh.

Gen 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.[/QUOTE \]

You're disagreeing with Genesis 2:7 when you say, "because the 'breath' was involved in God's putting a 'soul' into Adam's flesh." When you make a statement like that, you're saying God gave man a soul and Genesis 2:7 doesn't say that God gave man a soul. Genesis 2:7 doesn't say anywhere that God gave the first human being a soul. The flesh blood human body is a soul, ....

So you don't believe the New Testament Scripture?

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV

Eventually, you WILL... believe the soul is a separate entity from the flesh. You will have no choice but to believe when you find your flesh is gone, and only your spirit with soul is left, which God can still cast into the future "lake of fire".

 

[BeyondET]

Davy said,
You simply don't know what you are talking about, because the 'breath' was involved in God's putting a 'soul' into Adam's flesh.

Gen 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.[/QUOTE \]

You're disagreeing with Genesis 2:7 when you say, "because the 'breath' was involved in God's putting a 'soul' into Adam's flesh." When you make a statement like that, you're saying God gave man a soul and Genesis 2:7 doesn't say that God gave man a soul. Genesis 2:7 doesn't say anywhere that God gave the first human being a soul. The flesh blood human body is a soul, whether it be a living soul or dead soul. If the flesh and blood human body doesn't have the breath(spirit) of life in that flesh and blood human body then that flesh and blood human body is not a living soul or living person but instead is a dead soul or dead person. (Numbers 6:6) So Genesis 2:7 teaches us that God formed from the dust of the ground a flesh and blood human body then blew the breath(spirit)of life, into that flesh and blood human body and the flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person. So for anyone to teach that the breath(spirit) of life is the soul they're incorrect for teaching this because the scriptures don't teach us this. The human being is a dead soul if the breath(spirit) of life isn't in the human body and if the breath(spirit) of life is in the human body then the human being is a living soul. So to repeat, the human body is a living soul or living person if the breath(spirit) of life is in the human body but if the breath of life isn't in the human body then the human body is a dead soul or dead person.

But the human body still has living cells in it after the heart stops beating and consciousness is gone. it fights death of the flesh for a bit. seems two distinct things happen with a person dies. Hearts lungs livers can be reused in another person's body and the flesh connected, kick started and the cells live on. there isn't multiple peoples souls living other peoples body.

The nostrils let in air into the hollow of the lungs, the molecules are broken down breath out carbon.

 

[Davy]

But the human body still has living cells in it after the heart stops beating and consciousness is gone. it fights death of the flesh for a bit. seems two distinct things happen with a person dies. Hearts lungs livers can be reused in another person's body and the flesh connected, kick started and the cells live on. there isn't multiple peoples souls living other peoples body.

The only evidence (which some choose not to believe) that one's conscious awareness leaves their flesh body in a near-death-experience, is their witness after having been revived by God...

For any evidence by those who actually died, we have none.

So it is impossible to make any claims that conscious awareness is still in one's flesh cells when they die, for the fact that the organs can be reused still does not prove ones 'spirit-soul' is in those cells. Otherwise, people with heart transplants would start having memories or experiences of the other person who had that heart first, wouldn't they?

So you might want to cut off the TV and stop watching all those fantastical Hollywood dramas which have no basis in reality. Like Jesus said in John 3, that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. They are two completely separate operations.

 

[BeyondET]

The only evidence (which some choose not to believe) that one's conscious awareness leaves their flesh body in a near-death-experience, is their witness after having been revived by God...

For any evidence by those who actually died, we have none.

So it is impossible to make any claims that conscious awareness is still in one's flesh cells when they die, for the fact that the organs can be reused still does not prove ones 'spirit-soul' is in those cells. Otherwise, people with heart transplants would start having memories or experiences of the other person who had that heart first, wouldn't they?

So you might want to cut off the TV and stop watching all those fantastical Hollywood dramas which have no basis in reality. Like Jesus said in John 3, that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. They are two completely separate operations.

You definitely didn't understand what I said, souls are not in the flesh like entwined with it but life still is in the flesh on the cell level. Interesting thing about genes when you where conceived development genes kick in and those form your body. They are turned off and are dormant in the geno after the human body is completely developed until death then they are reactivated for a while for what isn't quite known but life in the flesh is fascinating and that is separate from the soul.

 

[quietthinker]

What happens at Death?
Ummmm, a few things mostly. Firstly you stop breathing and then there is shock horror from those who discover you aint breathing ....and if you live in the Middle East or other parts of the merry go round, it's accompanied by loud wailing or deathly silence.....did I say deathly? Oh, that might be because someone has to shell out money to get you outta the house and into a new one...usually with a dirt roof.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

So you don't believe the New Testament Scripture?

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV

Eventually, you WILL... believe the soul is a separate entity from the flesh. You will have no choice but to believe when you find your flesh is gone, and only your spirit with soul is left, which God can still cast into the future "lake of fire".

No scripture including the new testament contradicts Genesis 2:7. So scripture says that human beings are souls, not that human beings have souls.

 

[Davy]

No scripture including the new testament contradicts Genesis 2:7. So scripture says that human beings are souls, not that human beings have souls.

The idea of a 'living soul' in Genesis 2:7 is about a 'soul' living inside... a flesh shell. Lord Jesus proved that when He said to not fear those who can kill the body (flesh), but not the soul (Matthew 10:28). Because you REFUSE what Jesus said, it means you REJECT New Testament witness.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

The idea of a 'living soul' in Genesis 2:7 is about a 'soul' living inside... a flesh shell. Lord Jesus proved that when He said to not fear those who can kill the body (flesh), but not the soul (Matthew 10:28). Because you REFUSE what Jesus said, it means you REJECT New Testament witness.

.
I disagree, if that was what Genesis 2:7 was teaching us then it would have said that God gave the human body a living soul when he blew the breath(spirit) of life into the human body, but that's not what Genesis 2:7 says. It says, that the human body became, a living soul, when God blew the breath(spirit) of life, into the human body, not that God blew a living soul into the human body. What you don't want to accept is that the scriptures teach us that the human body is a soul, whether it has the breath(spirit) of life in the human body or not. Numbers 6:6 teaches us that if the breath(spirit)of life isn't in the human body, then that human body is a dead soul, or dead person. If the breath(spirit) of life is in the human body then that human body is a living soul or living person.(Genesis 2:7)

 

[BeyondET]

.
I disagree, if that was what Genesis 2:7 was teaching us then it would have said that God gave the human body a living soul when he blew the breath(spirit) of life into the human body, but that's not what Genesis 2:7 says. It says, that the human body became, a living soul, when God blew the breath(spirit) of life, into the human body, not that God blew a living soul into the human body. What you don't want to accept is that the scriptures teach us that the human body is a soul, whether it has the breath(spirit) of life in the human body or not. Numbers 6:6 teaches us that if the breath(spirit)of life isn't in the human body, then that human body is a dead soul, or dead person. If the breath(spirit) of life is in the human body then that human body is a living soul or living person.(Genesis 2:7)

Numbers 6:6 talks about not going near a dead body. the verse isn't saying it's a dead soul and the reason for not going near it, but unclean rotting decay.

 

[Davy]

.
I disagree, if that was what Genesis 2:7 was teaching us then it would have said that God gave the human body a living soul when he blew the breath(spirit) of life into the human body, but that's not what Genesis 2:7 says. It says, that the human body became, a living soul, when God blew the breath(spirit) of life, into the human body, not that God blew a living soul into the human body. What you don't want to accept is that the scriptures teach us that the human body is a soul, whether it has the breath(spirit) of life in the human body or not. Numbers 6:6 teaches us that if the breath(spirit)of life isn't in the human body, then that human body is a dead soul, or dead person. If the breath(spirit) of life is in the human body then that human body is a living soul or living person.(Genesis 2:7)

If you can't understand the witness by Lord Jesus in Matthew 10:28 that the 'soul' part is NOT OF FLESH, then you can't understand that Genesis 2:7 Scripture either which AGREES with what Jesus said. Thus the confusion and contradiction you are seeing is in your own mind.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Numbers 6:6 talks about not going near a dead body. the verse isn't saying it's a dead soul and the reason for not going near it, but unclean rotting decay.

I know that the original language of these scriptures Genesis 2:7 and Numbers 6:6 is Hebrew and the Hebrew word nephesh is used at both scriptures. The word nephesh is translated soul in many English Bibles. The word nephesh or soul can refer to humans, animals, or the life that the human or animal has. So in the scriptures the word nephesh or soul in connection to earthly creatures refers to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal. I agree that when translating the word nephesh or soul it should be translated according to the context which the word nephesh or soul is in. So when it comes to the word nephesh or soul, you can use such terms as "life," "creature," "person," "one's whole being," or simply as a personal pronoun (for example "I" for "my soul"). When the term "soul" is used in the main text it should be understood in line with such explanations. So in these explanations of how the Hebrew word nephesh or soul is used, they can refer to a dead person or dead body. At Numbers 6:6 where the word nephesh is used it's talking about a dead body, or dead person so this scripture is telling us that the human body is no longer a living soul or living person but instead a dead soul or dead person, the reason why the human body is a dead soul or dead person is because in scripture when the breath(spirit) of life leaves the human body, the human body is no longer a living soul or living person but instead a dead soul or dead person. I can see myself that at Genesis 2:7 the human body is referred to as a living soul or living person after God blew the breath(spirit) of life into that human body. Nowhere in Genesis 2:7 is it said that the breath(spirit) of life separately on it's own and not in a human body that the breath(spirit) of life is a living soul or living person. So when the breath(spirit)of life isn't in that human body then that human body isn't a living soul or living person, it was only after God blew the breath(spirit) of life into the human body that the human body became a living soul or living person. So Numbers 6:6 is talking about a dead soul or dead person, the fact we're talking about a dead body doesn't change that, because when the breath(spirit) of life is no longer in that human body, that human body is no longer a living person or living soul. You can teach that the living soul or living person is the breath(spirit) of life separately on it's own without being in a human body but the scriptures contradict that.

 

[Davy]

Yeah, lot of Jews are confused over the idea in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 about one's 'spirit' going back to God Who gave it, when one dies in their flesh, with their flesh going back to the earth where it came from.

They don't want to admit that "spirit" is about one's spirit with soul being the actual 'person' that returns back to God. Instead they want to push that it's just an animating force in nature in general.

Eccl 12:5-7
5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:

6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
KJV

The false belief that our spirit with soul is part of our flesh body, an old JEWISH FALSE TRADITION, if true would mean the 'person', the individual', NO LONGER EXISTS at flesh death. It would mean YOU ARE GONE, NO MORE, WIPED CLEAN as if you never existed! That is the what the ATHEISTS believe! They believe when we die we are NO MORE, like we never existed.

How then, did Lord Jesus go to the "spirits in prison", and preach The Gospel to the dead, so they could be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit? (see 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4).

 

[BeyondET]

I know that the original language of these scriptures Genesis 2:7 and Numbers 6:6 is Hebrew and the Hebrew word nephesh is used at both scriptures. The word nephesh is translated soul in many English Bibles. The word nephesh or soul can refer to humans, animals, or the life that the human or animal has. So in the scriptures the word nephesh or soul in connection to earthly creatures refers to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal. I agree that when translating the word nephesh or soul it should be translated according to the context which the word nephesh or soul is in. So when it comes to the word nephesh or soul, you can use such terms as "life," "creature," "person," "one's whole being," or simply as a personal pronoun (for example "I" for "my soul"). When the term "soul" is used in the main text it should be understood in line with such explanations. So in these explanations of how the Hebrew word nephesh or soul is used, they can refer to a dead person or dead body. At Numbers 6:6 where the word nephesh is used it's talking about a dead body, or dead person so this scripture is telling us that the human body is no longer a living soul or living person but instead a dead soul or dead person, the reason why the human body is a dead soul or dead person is because in scripture when the breath(spirit) of life leaves the human body, the human body is no longer a living soul or living person but instead a dead soul or dead person. I can see myself that at Genesis 2:7 the human body is referred to as a living soul or living person after God blew the breath(spirit) of life into that human body. Nowhere in Genesis 2:7 is it said that the breath(spirit) of life separately on it's own and not in a human body that the breath(spirit) of life is a living soul or living person. So when the breath(spirit)of life isn't in that human body then that human body isn't a living soul or living person, it was only after God blew the breath(spirit) of life into the human body that the human body became a living soul or living person. So Numbers 6:6 is talking about a dead soul or dead person, the fact we're talking about a dead body doesn't change that, because when the breath(spirit) of life is no longer in that human body, that human body is no longer a living person or living soul. You can teach that the living soul or living person is the breath(spirit) of life separately on it's own without being in a human body but the scriptures contradict that.

You mentioned half the full meaning in Genesis 2
nephesh chayyah. Living soul.

In Numbers 6 mentions dead body what is that in Hebrew

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

If you can't understand the witness by Lord Jesus in Matthew 10:28 that the 'soul' part is NOT OF FLESH, then you can't understand that Genesis 2:7 Scripture either which AGREES with what Jesus said. Thus the confusion and contradiction you are seeing is in your own mind.

Jesus wasn't teaching that God gave the human body a living soul or living person or put a living soul or living person in the human body at Genesis 2:7 because of what he said at Matthew 10:28. At Matthew 10:28 the Greek word translated soul here in this scripture is referring to life. As the scriptures show us Hebrew word nephesh and the Greek word psykhe which are translated soul refer to human beings, animals, and the life that a human being or animal has. So Jesus wasn't saying that the word soul here at Matthew 10:28 means that the human body has a living soul or living person in the human body.

 

[BeyondET]

Jesus wasn't teaching that God gave the human body a living soul or living person or put a living soul or living person in the human body at Genesis 2:7 because of what he said at Matthew 10:28. At Matthew 10:28 the Greek word translated soul here in this scripture is referring to life. As the scriptures show us Hebrew word nephesh and the Greek word psykhe which are translated soul refer to human beings, animals, and the life that a human being or animal has. So Jesus wasn't saying that the word soul here at Matthew 10:28 means that the human body has a living soul or living person in the human body.

There's a clear separation of life in the humanbody. On the cellular level life doesn't even know death has happened to the vessel the organism body. They motor along without a clue. there is a reason why cells in the body don't die suddenly.