Earburner
Well-Known Member
We who believe and are born again now, have Eternal life RIGHT NOW. Again... 1 John 5:11-13.
The only thing the unsaved have RIGHT NOW is condemnation. John 3:18.
What if I don’t want eternal life?
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The only thing the unsaved have RIGHT NOW is condemnation. John 3:18.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
The assumed knowledge about the wicked dead, that they shall be resurrected in the day of Jesus' return. Such man made knowledge IS "ALLOWED" by religion, and therefore is not true. It's a fallacy.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
After mortal death, no life for the wicked unsaved whatsoever.
In other words no one has an eternally living soul at all!
Earburner
Well-Known Member
For men to believe that the wicked unsaved will be raised back to life to be judged, is a concept "allowed" by the Jewish religion.
It really is not a Christian concept.
So you do not believe in the resurrection of the unjust and the just you only believe in the resurrection of the just
And you do not believe that death can deliver up out of it what IS considered dead BEFORE being cast into the lake
You refute the scriptures, and now going off on them as some jewish thing, I honestly don't know what to make of your replies sometimes.
We just disagree. I think we are done here, at least I am.
Only if we endure to the end! Otherwise, Jesus wouldn't have given MANY warnings to Christians!!!
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Yes, this is true, but why did God need an “elect”, (chosen) ones to go to heaven? On what basis are they chosen? What are they to do there?
He created mankind to live on earth forever (Gen 3:22-24)….it was the disobedience of Adam that condemned the world to sin and death (Rom 5:12).…so what would have happened if Adam had refused to eat the fruit offered to him by his wife?
God cursed the earth itself, meaning that obtaining food would now require hard work. They had an unlimited supply of delicious fruit in the garden that they did not have to plant and cultivate themselves, but when they were evicted out of the garden onto cursed ground, and access to the tree of life was denied, the humans would be made very aware of what their disobedience would mean for the rest of their lives.
And within one generation they would experience the death that God had told them would plague all mankind who descended from them.
Jesus disagrees with you. There are those who are chosen for a role in heaven, which is the whole idea of “election”, but these are a finite number compared with the ones Jesus came to redeem. Not all Christians are chosen for a heavenly role. These are a “little flock” (Luke 12:32) They are “chosen from among mankind as firstfruits”. (Rev 14:1-5)
Jesus became our High Priest up on his return to heaven, and he was to have a priesthood who would rule with him over the earth, from heaven. Some mistakenly believe that the Kingdom will be earthly and will rule from earthly Jerusalem, but that is not what the Bible says….Christians are found in every nation on earth and God is guiding his people in only one way, feeding his worshippers sound spiritual food in this time of the end……and using just one channel to do that, as he always has. (Matt 24:45)
The Revelation gives us a picture of what was to happen in our day….this is yet to take place.
Rev 20:1-9……NLT…
”Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the bottomless pit and a heavy chain in his hand. He seized the dragon—that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan—and bound him in chains for a thousand years. The angel threw him into the bottomless pit, which he then shut and locked so Satan could not deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years were finished. Afterward he must be released for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years. When the thousand years come to an end, Satan will be let out of his prison. He will go out to deceive the nations—called Gog and Magog—in every corner of the earth. He will gather them together for battle—a mighty army, as numberless as sand along the seashore. And I saw them as they went up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded God’s people and the beloved city. But fire from heaven came down on the attacking armies and consumed them.”
So satan and his angels will be thrown into a place of inactivity for the thousand years that Christ and his elect will rule the earth, restoring all that God meant to be in the beginning.
This is also a time when Christ will resurrect the dead, bringing the faithful back to a life of faith and others to a period of judgment. (John 5:28-29) By the end of that thousand years, God will release satan for one last test of the now sinless human race, because many of those brought back to life will never have had their faith tested by the devil….now they will be tempted, just as we all will have been in the separating of the “sheep and the goats”….and even as Jesus himself was tested in the wilderness.
You see…it’s not all about going to heaven….there is a purpose to all of it in restoring all that God meant to happen in the beginning….the kingdom is the means of restoration and rulership of the human race as God intended. (Isa 55:11)
Again, why was God’s wrath necessary, and what does it accomplish….where is the big picture in your belief system RD? Why are we here?
But don’t we need to know why the world is in such a mess, and why God permitted it to become this way?
What is the take away? What is the end result?
This is so true…..no human has experienced the life that God purposed for us in the beginning…..one man’s disobedience took that away from us….but another man’s obedience paid for it to be reinstated. What did Adam take away from his children that the death of Christ is to restore?
Can you answer without being vague? The Bible is not vague about anything….
True! Jesus clearly warned us of Satan's messengers who tell us there is no eternal Hell fire!
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
Earburner
Well-Known Member
I am not of JW doctrine.
However, you should know that "ALL of the churches have SOME of His truth, but NONE of the churches have ALL of His truth"- Earburner
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Only God is of an Eternal consuming fire.
Hell is the grave, aka the pit, of which shall be burned up, along with this earth.
2 Peter 3
[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Rev. 20
[14] And death [all the dead] and hell [the graves also] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
You are not understanding the Gift of God!!
Try again:
We who believe and are born again now, have Eternal life RIGHT NOW.
Again... KJV 1 John 5:11-13.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Ignorance speaks loudly and arrogantly at times….and you seem to have no idea what “hell fire” is…..look up “Gehenna” and see what Jesus was talking about. The “the lake of fire” is entirely symbolic because death and hades are thrown into this “fire” as well.Jack said:
“Fire” in the Bible is a symbol of complete destruction. God’s burning anger is said to be like a fire. (Zeph 2:2-3)
The god you worship is a fiend!….a sadistic torturer who enjoys the suffering of his children who disobey him…..that tyrant is not my God.…he gives them no opportunity to repent and leaves them to suffer for all eternity in abject misery….how can anyone love a god who would do that? It is sadistic!
Peter plainly says that God does not desire any to “perish” but that all should have opportunity to repent. (2 Pet 3:9)
What about those who lived in nations far away from Jerusalem and who never heard about Jesus?…..or those who lived in times before the birth of Christ? How did those in the first century find those gentiles who became Christ’s disciples? Jesus sent them out to preach…but at first it was only to Jews…….so but what about before Jesus time?
Even in our day, there are people who live in very remote places who will never be reached with the kingdom message. God will not punish people who sin in ignorance…but he will punish those who sin deliberately and those who deny the truth when it is offered to them…..you say it’s me, and I might say it’s you…but Jesus knows his own, and he will tell us all soon enough if we have done as he instructed us to….and if we have been feeding at the right table…. (1 Cor 10:21)
Rejecting the Literal is a path to God's wrath. Hell fire is Literal! Absolutely Literal!
So Jesus just made up HORROR stories about Hell Fire, the Lake of Fire, the EVERLASTING Fire, the furnace of fire?
I do understand.
1 Timothy 4:1
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
When you get a glimpse of the furnace of fire, remember you were warned.
Matthew 13:49-50
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just,
50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
You mean God of the Bible who burned Sodom alive "making them an example"?
People choose Hell Fire! I.E. JW's!
Earburner
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure you do.
1 John 5:10-13
[10] He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
[11] And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
[12] He that HATH the Son HATH life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. [Rom. 8:9]
[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye HAVE eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
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