What is Mystery Babylon?

[Episkopos]

Oprah cannot help me or any one , no , not even her own self . She has preached and long preached a lie that cannot save but only grave .

You have a religious spirit. Oprah does not. So she is ahead of you. You are more in bondage to the flesh than she is.

Know thyself.

 

[amigo de christo]

Ecumenicalism links arms with unbelievers....unequally yoked with unbelievers, which we are clearly instructed in scripture not to do. We are not to be unequally yoked with non-born again Catholicism and non-born again Judaism, much less any other religion of the world such as Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, etc. Linking arms with Catholicism or Judaism (like many in the Jewish roots movement do)..........is ecumenicalism. It is friendship with the world...Mystery Babylon in bed with the world. It is deceptive......... and is deceiving and leading souls to a stronger delusion.

You saying that Catholics are our brothers and sisters and your belief that souls practicing other false religions of the world can be saved without the gospel and apart from knowing Christ just based on their own righteousness............is ecumenicalism. "Righteous" Catholics don't need the gospel and "righteous" Jews don't need the gospel....? nor righteous Muslim, Hindus, Buddhists etc. Hmmm...strange because Jesus came to Israel for that very reason, to bring the gospel.......and even the gospel was to the Jew FIRST, then the rest of the world. Those of Israel who rejected the gospel........sadly were subject to the wrath of God and were destroyed and scattered.......as a lesson and warning to the church and the world.

And your double-speak about Mystery Babylon would seem to divert away from the real warning that we need to take from it. Nothing to see here folks...it's just about division within the church....that's how it came across to me..........when it's really about the church having unity/friendship with the world.

YEAH . go on and read his response to you . The man is already well under the influence of this .
Look at his reponse to you .
What do you think paul would have went about preaching to a muslim or anyone .
Epi literally preaches exactly what ecumincal inclusivsim would have . OH they must know god cause they do good etc .
LOOK at his response . And he supports BIG TIME oprah wimphrey . LOOK at his responses to me .
INCLUSIVE ECUMUNICALISM has DONE ITS WORK big time .
As for me , ITS THE ONE TRUE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST this lamb gonna stick too .
Dont think for a second paul preached common ground good works etc stuff .
EPI would have ripped right into paul and called him religious .
Worse still EPI would have ripped right into JESUS CHRIST who even told the UNBELIEVING jews they would DIE
in their sin if they ...........................if they what .............................
If they did not find common ground with all , OR IF THEY BELIEVED NOT ON HIM .
EPI is totally under a deluisoin sister . I refuse that delusion , no matter if it does make me seem as a religious bigot and hater .
THIS lamb gonna point too and remind all about FIRST HAVING TO BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST
and then reminding all about ALL things HE DID teach .
there is a way unto man that sure as heck seems right , good and loving , BUT THE END IS DEATH
and unto that man when TRUE AGAPE LOVE appears , THEY REJECT IT AS HATE and RELIGIOUS .
This is not at all looking good for epi . READ his response to you , read his response to me .
HE points to something else , we point to JESUS CHRIST .
HE claims we serve EGO and yet ITS HE who serveth EGO .
EPI seemeth to teach that there is NO DIRE NEED TO DEPEND ON , POINT TOO , JESUS CHRIST
to attain , rather he points to any religoin , yes he said what he said about even muslims
as being what he calls the good samartain . PAUL , NOR JESUS , NOR PETER , NOR JOHN , nor jude
or any other DID what epi doeth .

 

[amigo de christo]

You have a religious spirit. Oprah does not. So she is ahead of you. You are more in bondage to the flesh than she is.

Know thyself.

SO much for doctrine . RELIGIOUS SPIRIT you say . ITS NOT ME saying things
like it dont matter what name ,what etc one believes ,
SHE , like you , has the RELIGIOUS SPIRIT . you know the same spirit that DENIED JESUS AS THE CHRIST
the same one that the UNBELIEVING jews had . YOU preach works as a means to attain
and you omit the dire need of beleiving on JESUS . You aint fooling me , only yourself

 

[Lizbeth]

While you are so occupied with those pesky non-believers...you don't realize that all those false believers have infiltrated into the church to put their muddy boot-prints everywhere...thus spoiling the place for anything holy. And you are just as guilty.

I'm not "occupied with non-believers".....ecumenicalists are.

But this is what the scripture says Epi....aren't you familiar with it?.....we are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. But come out from among them and be separate. I can give you chapter and verse if you want. But it seems you would rather ignore it. I've mentioned it before as well and you never address it.

We are in the world but not of it. But does this mean to be unkind, inhospitable and unhelpful or have a bad attitude towards unbelievers? Of course not. But this is talking about separateness and being set apart to God and His kingdom (ie, HOLY) and not linking arms with the causes of the world and ways that seemeth right to man. And any real conversation about holiness would include this characteristic of being set apart I would think.

False. Jesus told the story of the good Samaritan..the equivalent of a Muslim of today...a man of another faith.

Because you are an indoctrinated religious person...you read the bible without being able to understand it's daily implications.

If there were Muslims in His day...Jesus would have told the story of the good Muslim. Of course that puts religious people in a BIG SNIT. (go check your pulse and see how the Pharisees received Jesus' teachings) So the Pharisees...so the "FUNdamentalists" of today. Same religious spirit.

Of course I know the story of the good Samaritan and the point it was making. And also I know a point it wasn't making. It wasn't making a point that the good Samaritan was saved based on his good deed. Important not to take things further than the Lord intended.

I never said that. You have only a one dimensional understanding of the gospel. The higher call is to become the Bride of Christ. God selects (elects) people from every tribe, nation, and tongue INTO His kingdom to rule and reign with Him. Read Revelation. God chooses His holy ones from among the righteous...or ones who are disposed towards righteousness.

All my critics are at a big disadvantage. They don't understand the gospel.

People here will say I am too loving of others. Then others say I'm elitist. The Pharisees didn't understand Jesus either. All they knew was that they hated Him and His message.

And ecumenism is about institutions...not individuals. You are WAY off here (and many other places). Do you think God has mercy on institutions or people? So you condemn people...I condemn ONLY the institution. I don't condemn people. I'm here to help save them.

If I or anyone misunderstands something you say at any time then you need to clarify. But unfortunately it seems you would rather insult, demean, accuse and browbeat rather than actually just address and discuss or clear up what is being discussed.

You are not getting this right. The people of Israel at THAT time were the Jews. They were complicit in putting Jesus on the cross...based on the holiness present in their religion...the law of Moses. As such the ONLY way out FOR THEM was to believe in Jesus. God sent Jonah to Nineveh....why? To have them repent. And they did so.
Did God send Jonah to other cities? No. But you...thinking you "understand God" are trying to condemn other cities as if they were Nineveh. Jesus' ministry was NOT to the world...but to the lost sheep of Israel. Is this too high-fallutin for you? Can you reason it?

The same gospel is to the Jew first then the Gentile...and for the same reasons. It doesn't seem complicated.

Yes God had mercy on Nineveh.......but He wasn't having mercy on the other cities who He didn't send Jonah to, think we can assume. It's not me that is condemning anyone, not at all. God is judge, not me....He has mercy on who He has mercy. If He was having mercy on other cities He would have sent Jonah or someone else to carry His word to them. What is your point with this...?

You mean double-edged sword. And you don't understand that because of that pesky one-dimensional approach of yours.

No that isn't what I meant. I meant double-speak. There's a difference between the word of God and the word of Epi.

It's both. Institutions look for worldly recognition. But the lack of unity is from within.

ok let's look at that...how so? How is Mystery Babylon in Revelation showing a lack of unity within the church? I'm quite happy to concede that point if you can show it or point it out in the scriptures.

That wouldn't seem to be the main point though of being a harlot and mother of harlots.....that implies spiritual harlotry, spiritual adultery. Claiming one husband while in bed with false gods of the world at the same time.

 

[Lizbeth]

SO much for doctrine . RELIGIOUS SPIRIT you say . ITS NOT ME saying things
like it dont matter what name ,what etc one believes ,
SHE , like you , has the RELIGIOUS SPIRIT . you know the same spirit that DENIED JESUS AS THE CHRIST
the same one that the UNBELIEVING jews had . YOU preach works as a means to attain
and you omit the dire need of beleiving on JESUS . You aint fooling me , only yourself

Amen. Oh, the gospel itself is just "religious" and irrelevant to many now. The church is in big trouble. Someone on another thread about contemplative prayer reads Zen books and Epi apparently supports him. It feels like Christianity is absolutely drowning and going down for the third time.

Starting to lose my patience with all of this.....getting tired and need to take a break.

 

[Episkopos]

SO much for doctrine . RELIGIOUS SPIRIT you say . ITS NOT ME saying things
like it dont matter what name ,what etc one believes ,
SHE , like you , has the RELIGIOUS SPIRIT . you know the same spirit that DENIED JESUS AS THE CHRIST
the same one that the UNBELIEVING jews had . YOU preach works as a means to attain
and you omit the dire need of beleiving on JESUS . You aint fooling me , only yourself

Oprah is a kind person. Your dire need is only a smokescreen. A religious facade that you use to make yourself to be better than others. It's all pretense.

Now you want to talk about faith? I do that...and you hate faith. You like religious dogmas and beliefs.

 

[Lizbeth]

Oprah is a kind person. Your dire need is only a smokescreen. A religious facade that you use to make yourself to be better than others. It's all pretense.

Now you want to talk about faith? I do that...and you hate faith. You like religious dogmas and beliefs.

And so you are judging Oprah, Epi. You judge that she is a kind person and you think it is virtuous of you to do so. But how do you know? How do you know her heart and the secrets of her life? Are you God? All you see is her facade.

 

[Episkopos]

Amen. Oh, the gospel itself is just "religious" and irrelevant to many now.

Your version is religious. The Pharisees version of Judaism was the same. YET>>> it all "comes from" reading a book.

The church is in big trouble. Someone on another thread about contemplative prayer reads Zen books and Epi apparently supports him.

No. You want me to so you can get all judgmental with me. But no, I don't need to judge every practice and every action. I think you are the one who is into the New Agey stuff.

My meditation is always on the words from God. (With an actual understanding) It makes it so much the sweeter..being actually taught by the Holy Spirit...and not dogmatism. I don't know why people settle for religiosity when there is an eternal God ready to fill us up with His power and presence. If people only knew...

It feels like Christianity is absolutely drowning and going down for the third time.

Reformed theology you say?

Starting to lose my patience with all of this.....getting tired and need to take a break.

Sure. You are typing a lot...but not hearing anything.

 

[Episkopos]

And so you are judging Oprah, Epi. You judge that she is a kind person and you think it is virtuous of you to do so. But how do you know? How do you know her heart and the secrets of her life? Are you God? All you see is her facade.

If I went up to Oprah and said that I thought she was a kind person...and you went up and did your evangelical thing and told her she was evil and going straight to hell...which one of us would she think is judging her?

Don't overestimate your religious charisma.

You judge Oprah because she has no dogmatic self-justifying filter that pleases you. She does random acts of kindness which is a righteous thing. Does that threaten your own self-justification? I mean if she is kind...what does that make you????

We are not to judge others...condemn others. Seeing the good side of people is a good thing. Of course, when comparing to God's holy standard....that's another story.

But righteous is as righteous does. One act of kindness can provoke another. And we are to treat others as we want to be treated. If you understood righteousness you would stop being so self-righteous. Seriously, only Pharisees are threatened by kindness. Jesus healing on the Sabbath?...how dare He!

A loving person sees other people in a good way. If your eyes are good...all is light. The way of love is to allow for kindness...even from strangers (go figure). We are to love even our enemies. (First you have to learn how to love.)

"If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!" Matt. 6:22,23

Your way is harsh and judgmental. No love...just a condemning attitude. Hold your pulse...now read these words...Catholic, Muslim.

 

[Episkopos]

God goes easy on the righteous (the goodness and mercy of God) but hard on the holy and the pretenders to holiness (the severity of God. )

The pretenders will think to themselves.....everything revolves around me being justified...so...God will go easy on me and hard on non-believers who are exactly like me. Why? Because in "my books" ....God respects persons.

Hypocrites think they are safe because they think God only goes hard on non-believers. What these have not figured out is that the bible is written to the churches...not the nations. Actually, God goes hard on all the unbelievers of HIS people.

Want a test of faith? Are you seeking the higher walk of the Spirit in God's kingdom realm? How hard?

 

[Lizbeth]

Your version is religious. The Pharisees version of Judaism was the same. YET>>> it all "comes from" reading a book.


No. You want me to so you can get all judgmental with me. But no, I don't need to judge every practice and every action. I think you are the one who is into the New Agey stuff.

My meditation is always on the words from God. (With an actual understanding) It makes it so much the sweeter..being actually taught by the Holy Spirit...and not dogmatism. I don't know why people settle for religiosity when there is an eternal God ready to fill us up with His power and presence. If people only knew...


Reformed theology you say?

Sure. You are typing a lot...but not hearing anything.

.....and some people type a lot and say little.

 

[Episkopos]

.....and some people type a lot and say little.

Haha...I'm speaking too far over your head. You read without understanding. To you it's just blah blah...because it isn't religious....it's spiritual understanding. And that strikes you as bizarre...it sounds so so ...unreligious.

 

[Episkopos]

Babylonian dogma check list.


1. Do the meek inherit the earth? (Correct Babylonian response) No. Only those who believe ON Christ are saved.

2. Does God care for the poor? " " No. Not unless they accept Jesus as their personal sacrifice.

3. Does God show His goodness to the world? " " No. They all deserve hell. Only God's severity for them.

4. Does God accept lip-service? " " Yes. He loves it when we say "believe on Jesus" 70 x 7 times a day

5. Did Jesus come to call the righteous to repentance? " " Yes. Because they are all self-righteous.

6. What about those who hunger and thirst for righteousness? " " Bound for hell unless they believe ON Jesus

7. Does God receive those who fear Him? " " No. He only accepts those who believe ON Him

8. What about those who obey Him? " " Nope. Hell bound...God wants the right dogmatic formula, or else, hell.

9. To whom will God show mercy? " " You and me and I'm not so sure about you.

10. Do we as believers need to obey God? " " No. We're past all that if we have believed ON Jesus.




Now tally your score. If you got none right, there may yet be hope for you.

 

[Lizbeth]

If I went up to Oprah and said that I thought she was a kind person...and you went up and did your evangelical thing and told her she was evil and going straight to hell...which one of us would she think is judging her?

Don't overestimate your religious charisma.

You judge Oprah because she has no dogmatic self-justifying filter that pleases you. She does random acts of kindness which is a righteous thing. Does that threaten your own self-justification? I mean if she is kind...what does that make you????

We are not to judge others...condemn others. Seeing the good side of people is a good thing. Of course, when comparing to God's holy standard....that's another story.

But righteous is as righteous does. One act of kindness can provoke another. And we are to treat others as we want to be treated. If you understood righteousness you would stop being so self-righteous. Seriously, only Pharisees are threatened by kindness. Jesus healing on the Sabbath?...how dare He!

A loving person sees other people in a good way. If your eyes are good...all is light. The way of love is to allow for kindness...even from strangers (go figure). We are to love even our enemies. (First you have to learn how to love.)

"If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!" Matt. 6:22,23

Your way is harsh and judgmental. No love...just a condemning attitude. Hold your pulse...now read these words...Catholic, Muslim.

My, what a self-aggrandizing rant you are on. When have I ever talked to you about Oprah....how on earth do you have any idea what I think or how I would approach her or others like her..? And all those who love your posts who know even less about me..? Doesn't anyone care about truth any more? Shaking my head. So many times I scratch my head and have to look behind me to see if there is someone standing behind me that Epi is talking to. And you do it to others too, whose lives I know enough about to know your accusations are simply incorrect and unfounded and therefore can't be of God but from the dark side. And you justify yourself to the moon and back. So kind to Oprah but mean as a rattlesnake to people of God because they disagree with you, aka self righteous hypocrisy. But you just keep on heaping up wrath if you insist on it. Leaving you to it now, goodbye.

 

[Lizbeth]

God goes easy on the righteous (the goodness and mercy of God) but hard on the holy and the pretenders to holiness (the severity of God. )

The pretenders will think to themselves.....everything revolves around me being justified...so...God will go easy on me and hard on non-believers who are exactly like me. Why? Because in "my books" ....God respects persons.

Hypocrites think they are safe because they think God only goes hard on non-believers. What these have not figured out is that the bible is written to the churches...not the nations. Actually, God goes hard on all the unbelievers of HIS people.

Want a test of faith? Are you seeking the higher walk of the Spirit in God's kingdom realm? How hard?

Well you just keep on misrepresenting folks if it makes you feel better Epi. Bye now.

 

[Episkopos]

My, what a self-aggrandizing rant you are on. When have I ever talked to you about Oprah....how on earth do you have any idea what I think or how I would approach her or others like her..? And all those who love your posts who know even less about me..? Doesn't anyone care about truth any more? Shaking my head. So many times I scratch my head and have to look behind me to see if there is someone standing behind me that Epi is talking to. And you do it to others too, whose lives I know enough about to know your accusations are simply incorrect and unfounded and therefore can't be of God but from the dark side. And you justify yourself to the moon and back. So kind to Oprah but mean as a rattlesnake to people of God because they disagree with you, aka self righteous hypocrisy. But you just keep on heaping up wrath if you insist on it. Leaving you to it now, goodbye.

She wipes her mouth and says ...I have done no iniquity. Can't be talking to me. Nope ....I refuse to listen.

 

[Lizbeth]

She wipes her mouth and says ...I have done no iniquity. Can't be talking to me. Nope ....I refuse to listen.

Didn't you hear what I said?

 

[Azim]

And all those who love your posts who know even less about me..? Doesn't anyone care about truth any more?

I tend to stay away from liking heated replies between other members here, unless the reply has truth that makes me go to God and understand what has been shared.

In Epi's reply (post #369), thoughts came to me about why we shouldn't have a judgemental attitude towards others, of different doctrine beliefs, denominations or religions. One way to look at it, is we close our hearts off to them, as if they don't deserve the truth of Christ. If one is a true follower of Jesus, do we not want as many people as we meet in this life, to hear the good news, and follow him whole heartedly? What if God can use us, to share His truth with these people? However, a judgemental attitude towards others can cause us to be blinded by pride in ourselves, that these people don't deserve God. Just my thoughts from reading Epi's reply.

 

[Episkopos]

I tend to stay away from liking heated replies between other members here, unless the reply has truth that makes me go to God and understand what has been shared.

In Epi's reply (post #369), thoughts came to me about why we shouldn't have a judgemental attitude towards others, of different doctrine beliefs, denominations or religions. One way to look at it, is we close our hearts off to them, as if they don't deserve the truth of Christ. If one is a true follower of Jesus, do we not want as many people as we meet in this life, to hear the good news, and follow him whole heartedly? What if God can use us, to share His truth with these people? However, a judgemental attitude towards others can cause us to be blinded by pride in ourselves, that these people don't deserve God. Just my thoughts from reading Epi's reply.

What religious people can't see is that their take on God's goodness for themselves...is not the only way to see God. As such, it is often easier to reason spiritual things with non-believers than with those who have been religiously indoctrinated. Non-believers can sometimes see the reasoning in God's ways...much more than the religious who have become indoctrinated into a version of doctrine that has strayed far from the truth.

Another thing is that I am personally disliked because I am so hard on the pretenders. I accept the saints, the righteous, even the wicked can be reasoned with at times. But the pretenders have it so wrong, upside down...so that all becomes twisted. Jesus ate with sinners but rebuked the religious ones most sharply. And religious people can't accept the logic behind that. It boggles my mind...AND...it makes me glory in God's wisdom. He gives grace to the humble but He resists the proud...even if He has given them life. It all depends what WE do with what WE are given. We will all be judged for what we have done with what we have been given.

Peace

 

[David H.]

I tend to stay away from liking heated replies between other members here, unless the reply has truth that makes me go to God and understand what has been shared.

In Epi's reply (post #369), thoughts came to me about why we shouldn't have a judgemental attitude towards others, of different doctrine beliefs, denominations or religions. One way to look at it, is we close our hearts off to them, as if they don't deserve the truth of Christ. If one is a true follower of Jesus, do we not want as many people as we meet in this life, to hear the good news, and follow him whole heartedly? What if God can use us, to share His truth with these people? However, a judgemental attitude towards others can cause us to be blinded by pride in ourselves, that these people don't deserve God. Just my thoughts from reading Epi's reply.

i have seen Calvinists go at Armenians and vice versa ad infinitum. those who believe in conditional security, and those who are OSAS.... the protestant vs. the catholic etc., etc. they all accuse each other of heresy, unsound doctrine or even worse being unsaved. These are doctrines of men, that cause division that we all must rise above.... there are brothers and sisters in Christ in all of these sects that need to "Grow up into Christ". You cannot force people to "grow up" they have to embrace responsibility for themselves and desire to pursue the high calling. The best we can do is guide and encourage and at times correct them on their journey. If they are truly seeking the way they will find that way and God will lead them in the direction they should go. Sometimes arguing with them causes them to entrench in the position they are in and hinders their growth. (Malachi 3:16-18)

My recommendation for people here who have descended into bickering and name calling is to read 1 Corinthians.... This Epistle more than others deals with division in the church. Especially chapters 1-3 and 12-14.
God bless