What is "OSAS"?
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
what do you think this lovey do is . its their wordly love salvationist . how is that for a name .
Cause its the essence of their theology .
Yet i tell us all , remind us all , this is not love nor of GOD .
GOD , HIS LOVE , IS THE GLORIOUS LORD JESUS CHRIST . BELIEVE YE IN HIM is the ANSWER .
ALL good works of HIS WORKING that fullfill the righteousness of the law by HIS LOVE WILL BE PLANTED ON THE HEART
by HIS SPIRIT . For we are HIS workmanship created unto THOSE GOOD WORKS .
But budda , HE AINT IT . The muhammed of the koran , AINT IT .
Athiesm AINT IT . Nor is any other religoin . THEY DAMN SOULS , JESUS SAVES SOULS .
Them other religoins grave
only JESUS can Save .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Explain that to others as well .
IF a man cometh and rejoices in SIN and says ITS NOT SIN
THEY DECIEVED THEMSELVES
SO how come churches are now calling those who honor a certain sin , WHICH THEY CALL LOVE
and see not as Sin . NOT DECIEVED . Folks if we live in sin and say ITS NOT SIN , we DECIEVED ourselves , BIG TIME .
IF we also try and say , OH the muslims , buddists , whateverists serve the same GOD we do
and that as long as they do good to one another , THEY are FINE and the SPIRIT of GOD IS IN THEM .
YOU all do realize something .
Concering the SPIRIT .
No man by the SPIRIT calleth JESUS accursed . IF THEY BE DENYING HIM as CHRIST , IT AINT GOD NOR OF GOD .
And only BY THE SPIRIT can one even call HIM LORD . note not BUDDA , not the muslim allah , not hindu,
BUT CALL JESUS LORD .
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
If salvation were truly unconditional as OSAS claims then what those two Baptist preachers said would be 100% correct and accurate. Yet the idea of Baptist preacher Bill Foster claiming he could kill his wife and mother and debauch thousands of women and yet still be saved is so vile that it even offends other OSAS proponents thus causing a rift among them.
The link at the bottom is to a website written by a Baptist who attacks another Baptist Bill Foster, saying that what Bill Foster said is "atrocious" and Mr Foster "needs to repent of his sin and read his Bible". The author of this link tries to figure out another way a Christian can unconditionally remain saved. The author tries to use the "never really saved" excuse thereby not having to go to the vile extremes Baptist preachers Bill Foster and Sam Morris both did.
The author of the link writes "If someone claims to be saved, but their life does not appear to have changed and they have no desire to walk in obedience to Christ, then they were never truly saved in the first place!" He appears to claim that once a person is saved, he loses his free will and can no longer choose to sin. In post number 13 that was made to you, it is stated "if you know what Salvation was and what it is now that you believe, you will never willingly go back to the way you were." Again, being saved does not cause one to lose his free will. Christians can choose to return back to sin, from having been washed to wallowing in the mire again. The same free will one uses to choose to have faith, that same volition can be used to turn from faith back to unbelief (Heb 4:11, 1 Tim 5:12).
Again, if salvation is truly unconditional then what Baptist preachers Sam Morris and Bill Foster said would be 100% correct where the Christian can use his free will to return to sinning yet still be saved anyway.
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OSAS proponents claim that once one is saved, he will no longer have the will to sin, has no desire nor will to "want" to sin.
1) again, being saved does not cause the loss of free will in choosing what one desires or "wants".
2) this claim makes being saved CONDITIONAL upon what one "wants" thereby undemining the idea salvation is totally unconditional.
or
3) does one not "want" to sin to the point of being completely sinless? The OSAS proponent will most likely say 'no' for the Christian can still sin but yet still be saved meaning the Christian can still sin by killing his wife and debauching thousands of women but still be saved.
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It's moving the idea from hypothetical to actual. "Are Christians permitted to live sinful lives?" is a theoretical question without a context, the way I see it.
As Christians, we are now permitted to put off the sin in our lives. We no longer have to sin.
Much love!
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I never really thought about it, but yes, I think so also! Both teach salvation without conversion.
Much love!
To me that mindset of "being allowed to sin" just demonstrates the wrong way to think.
"If we're permanently saved, we can commit endless debauchery!" Is that so? The argument is that judicially this is allowed. I respond that the Spirit just may have something to say about that should you try that road.
Much love!
Free will is sorely misunderstood. You only have the power to choose within your nature.
Romans 6:16-18 LITV
16) Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves as slaves for obedience, you are slaves to whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or obedience to righteousness?
17) But thanks be to God that you were slaves of sin, but you obeyed from the heart the form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
18) And having been set free from sin, you were enslaved to righteousness.
Much love!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Rather odd that was not quite the approach pual had about sin .
The gravity has died in many due to something .
Paul warned believers in sin . And he warned exactly what he was gonna do it they had not ceased from it
when he showed up .
perhaps we might ought to get back in our bibles again and be refreshed .
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Free will is choosing between two or more options, therefore people have the free will to choose to whom/what they will enslave themselves to. Hence being in a saved state does not diminish a person's free will as to who/what they will choose to serve.....anyone, saved or not, can choose at anytime to serve either sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness (Rom 6:16).
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Then you answered your own question did you not? How many sins does it cause one to be lost?
ScottA
Well-Known Member
You plugging your ears changes nothing of what is true according to God and what is written. I didn't have to tell you, nor did I, I was quoting.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Which "you" are you referring to, the me who was before my salvation that remains in the flesh and in the world as long as God has use of me, or the new me who is born of God?
I ask because it would appear that you do not fully understand that the body of flesh is one body, and the spiritual body born of God is another body. The one was and remains only for a time if God wills, and the other is and shall be forever more.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
These vile extremes do not represent Baptists or other Christians in general in the OSAS camp, so it's an unfair label. There are folks in the NOSAS camp who teach the extreme that if you don't live a sinless, perfect life 100% of the time after conversion then you will lose your salvation, which is also not a fair label to place on people in the NOSAS camp in general. Now those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) and have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.
It's not about losing our free will but about being new creations in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17) being sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit of promise unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30) and saints being preserved forever by the Lord. (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1)
Works-salvationists cannot understand this because they have not experienced the new birth. (1 Corinthians 2:14) "Nominal" Christians have merely experienced moral self-reformation (instead of regeneration) and condition their salvation on works righteousness based on the merits of their performance. From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is conditional on grace through faith and not works. (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
In regard to Hebrews 4:11, in context, we read in Hebrews 4:1-2 - "For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which THEY heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For WE who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were genuine believers. Notice that verses 2-3 make a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.
In regard to 1 Timothy 5:12, in context, starting in verse 5, we read - "NOW SHE who is really a widow, and left alone, trusts in God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day" and verse 6, "BUT SHE who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives. This means dead (spiritually) while living (physically). Paul said in verse 6, But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives. He also said in verse 11, But refuse to put younger widows on the list, for when they feel sensual desires in disregard of Christ, they want to get married. "Lives in pleasure," "sensual desires." Are you sure they were genuine believers who lost their salvation? If they really were genuine believers, then there would not have been a problem with whether they should or should not be admitted.
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mailmandan
Well-Known Member
There are only two kinds of slaves in this world, in the spiritual sense; slaves of sin unto death (unbelievers) and slaves of obedience unto righteousness. (believers) When we place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all-sufficient means of our salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9; Romans 1:16) we then become slaves of obedience unto righteousness. Being slaves of sin is put in the "past tense."
Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..
Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not his works) is accounted for righteousness.
Exactly! It's not that when we are saved we shall never sin again! When we are born again we are no longer in bondage to sin, Christians can choose to turn away from sin. The power sin has in man has been broken once we have been saved by Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit in us. That doesn't mean Christians will never again choose sin, but that we have an Advocate with the Father when we repent, He will forgive our sin so we are no longer in bondage to sin and death.
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