What IS "sound doctrine".

[Helen]

I have been looking at Titus this morning- Paul is instructing Titus as he left him on the island of Crete to continue the work there. Amongst the believers were those who felt that circumcision was needed for salvation.
The ' sound doctrine ' is summarised in 2:11-14 for the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men
It teaches us to say no to ungodliness and worlds passions
It teaches us to live self controlled , upright and Godly lives in the present age
While we wait for the blessed hope - the glorious appearing of God and Savious, Jesus Christ- who gave himself for us ' to redeem us from all wickedness '
Then in 3:4-7
When the kindness and love of God appeared our savour saved us , not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy ( this may mean, it wasn't through circumcion or the keeping of the law )
He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit , whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ , so having been justified by his grace , we might become heirs having hope in eternal life
I found it interesting that Paul uses the word ' teaches ' - it's a learning curve, teaching takes time !
Also he later goes on to say that it is profitable to do what is good , and benefits everyone , compared with avoid foolish controversies ands geneologies and arguments and guarrels about the law , because these to not profit and are useless. Want devisions people once, then again, after that have nothing to do with them..........Paul doesn't state that any were non believers - Titus was overseeing those who believed., and more what I am after here.
Rita

Excellent post , and more what I am looking for in this thread .. :)... defining what IS “sound doctrine” specifically .

As in the OP it seems to me some add to the bottom line.

I’m writing this in the Lab on my phone as I wait for blood tests..
I’ll come back here once Iget home to my laptop. x

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP and a few others, true and correct.
Isaiah 28:9 "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? [them that are] weaned from the milk, [and] drawn from the breasts".
Isaiah 28:10 "For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little:"

PICJAG.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

"Why is sound doctrine so important?"

Paul charges Titus, “You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine” Titus 2:1.
It makes it obvious that sound doctrine is important.

Sound doctrine is important because our faith is based on a specific message.
The overall teaching of the church contains many elements, but the primary message is explicitly defined: “Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures , and.. . . . "He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures” 1 Corinthians 15:3-4.

This is the good news, and it is “of first importance.”
If we change that message, then the whole basis of faith shifts from Christ to something else.

Our eternal destiny depends upon hearing “the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation” Ephesians 1:13; and 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

Sound doctrine is important because the gospel is a sacred trust, and we dare not tamper with God’s communication to the world.
Our duty is to deliver the message, not to change it.
Jude conveys an urgency in guarding the trust: “I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints” Jude 1:3; and Philippians 1:27).
To “contend” carries the idea of strenuously fighting for something, to give it everything you’ve got.
The Bible includes a warning neither to add to nor subtract from God’s Word Revelation 22:18-19. Rather than alter the apostles’ doctrine, we receive what has been passed down to us and keep it- “as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus” 2 Timothy 1:13.

Sound doctrine is important because what we believe affects what we do.
.... there is a direct correlation between what we think and how we act.
When two people stand on top of a bridge, one believes he can fly, and the other believes he cannot fly. Their next actions will be quite different . In the same way, a man who believes that there is no such thing as right and wrong will naturally behave differently from a man who believes in well defined moral standards.
In one of the biblical lists of sins, things like rebellion, murder, lying, and slave trading are mentioned. The list concludes with “whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine”
1 Timothy 1:9-10).
In other words, true teaching promotes righteousness...unrighteousness flourishes where “the sound doctrine” is opposed, changed, or added to.

Jesus said .."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free.." John 8:32

Hi Helen, and how are you all? I couldn't help but notice in this post about sound doctrine being the main issue, and I would say that this issue is pertaining to the bible scriptures esp. with II Timothy 2:15, where it says that we as Christians must study unto GOD, etc. along with sound doctrine.

2 Timothy 2:15 Commentaries: Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

What Is Sound Doctrine?

17 Bible verses about Sound Doctrine

 

[marks]

"Why is sound doctrine so important?"

Paul charges Titus, “You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine” Titus 2:1.
It makes it obvious that sound doctrine is important.

Sound doctrine is important because our faith is based on a specific message.
The overall teaching of the church contains many elements, but the primary message is explicitly defined: “Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures , and.. . . . "He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures” 1 Corinthians 15:3-4.

This is the good news, and it is “of first importance.”
If we change that message, then the whole basis of faith shifts from Christ to something else.

Our eternal destiny depends upon hearing “the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation” Ephesians 1:13; and 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

Sound doctrine is important because the gospel is a sacred trust, and we dare not tamper with God’s communication to the world.
Our duty is to deliver the message, not to change it.
Jude conveys an urgency in guarding the trust: “I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints” Jude 1:3; and Philippians 1:27).
To “contend” carries the idea of strenuously fighting for something, to give it everything you’ve got.
The Bible includes a warning neither to add to nor subtract from God’s Word Revelation 22:18-19. Rather than alter the apostles’ doctrine, we receive what has been passed down to us and keep it- “as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus” 2 Timothy 1:13.

Sound doctrine is important because what we believe affects what we do.
.... there is a direct correlation between what we think and how we act.
When two people stand on top of a bridge, one believes he can fly, and the other believes he cannot fly. Their next actions will be quite different . In the same way, a man who believes that there is no such thing as right and wrong will naturally behave differently from a man who believes in well defined moral standards.
In one of the biblical lists of sins, things like rebellion, murder, lying, and slave trading are mentioned. The list concludes with “whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine”
1 Timothy 1:9-10).
In other words, true teaching promotes righteousness...unrighteousness flourishes where “the sound doctrine” is opposed, changed, or added to.

Jesus said .."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free.." John 8:32

Hi ByGrace,

I like your words, true teaching promotes righteousness.

Jesus of course said that we'd know false prophets by their fruits.

James 3:13
"Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom."

And I see a real importance to this.

Ephesians 4:11-16
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Our disagreements over doctrine show our lack of maturity as a body of believers, and we just blow back and forth like the waves of the ocean.

But if we get past this we build up the body, each of us building up each other in love.

I see that these endless disputes are against love, and without love, how will we ever fulfill the Law of Christ?

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

I have been looking at Titus this morning- Paul is instructing Titus as he left him on the island of Crete to continue the work there. Amongst the believers were those who felt that circumcision was needed for salvation.
The ' sound doctrine ' is summarised in 2:11-14 for the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men
It teaches us to say no to ungodliness and worlds passions
It teaches us to live self controlled , upright and Godly lives in the present age
While we wait for the blessed hope - the glorious appearing of God and Savious, Jesus Christ- who gave himself for us ' to redeem us from all wickedness '
Then in 3:4-7
When the kindness and love of God appeared our savour saved us , not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy ( this may mean, it wasn't through circumcion or the keeping of the law )
He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit , whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ , so having been justified by his grace , we might become heirs having hope in eternal life
I found it interesting that Paul uses the word ' teaches ' - it's a learning curve, teaching takes time !
Also he later goes on to say that it is profitable to do what is good , and benefits everyone , compared with avoid foolish controversies ands geneologies and arguments and guarrels about the law , because these to not profit and are useless. Want devisions people once, then again, after that have nothing to do with them..........Paul doesn't state that any were non believers - Titus was overseeing those who believed.
Rita

Hi Rita,

It does seem to me that sound doctrine generally refers to God's grace towards us, and He does seem to make allowance for us to slowly come to that reality.

Much love!
Mark

 

[Helen]

Hi Helen, and how are you all? I couldn't help but notice in this post about sound doctrine being the main issue, and I would say that this issue is pertaining to the bible scriptures esp. with II Timothy 2:15, where it says that we as Christians must study unto GOD, etc. along with sound doctrine.

What Is Sound Doctrine?

17 Bible verses about Sound Doctrine

I like your greeting. :)

Thank you I am well. I've just got back from having blood tests...and in the last 3 months this is the third time that it has bled all over the place. This time I was shopping after the tests. Found blood dripping down my arm.
The manager was very kind.

I'm on blood thinners , and they always make me sit hold pressure on the puncture hole. No idea why it bled again today. Unless my blood is too thin this week. ( I have to have the tests every two weeks)

Thank you very much for your reply here. I will check out your links.

God bless, Helen.

 

[aspen]

"Why is sound doctrine so important?"

Paul charges Titus, “You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine” Titus 2:1.
It makes it obvious that sound doctrine is important.

Sound doctrine is important because our faith is based on a specific message.
The overall teaching of the church contains many elements, but the primary message is explicitly defined: “Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures , and.. . . . "He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures” 1 Corinthians 15:3-4.

This is the good news, and it is “of first importance.”
If we change that message, then the whole basis of faith shifts from Christ to something else.

Our eternal destiny depends upon hearing “the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation” Ephesians 1:13; and 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

Sound doctrine is important because the gospel is a sacred trust, and we dare not tamper with God’s communication to the world.
Our duty is to deliver the message, not to change it.
Jude conveys an urgency in guarding the trust: “I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints” Jude 1:3; and Philippians 1:27).
To “contend” carries the idea of strenuously fighting for something, to give it everything you’ve got.
The Bible includes a warning neither to add to nor subtract from God’s Word Revelation 22:18-19. Rather than alter the apostles’ doctrine, we receive what has been passed down to us and keep it- “as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus” 2 Timothy 1:13.

Sound doctrine is important because what we believe affects what we do.
.... there is a direct correlation between what we think and how we act.
When two people stand on top of a bridge, one believes he can fly, and the other believes he cannot fly. Their next actions will be quite different . In the same way, a man who believes that there is no such thing as right and wrong will naturally behave differently from a man who believes in well defined moral standards.
In one of the biblical lists of sins, things like rebellion, murder, lying, and slave trading are mentioned. The list concludes with “whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine”
1 Timothy 1:9-10).
In other words, true teaching promotes righteousness...unrighteousness flourishes where “the sound doctrine” is opposed, changed, or added to.

Jesus said .."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free.." John 8:32

Mine

;)

 

[Enoch111]

In that which I have 'bolded' from your quote , how can we know which is which and what is what?

We can know the difference between sound doctrine and false doctrine (a) only from what is actually revealed in the Bible and (b) through spiritual discernment.

1. The primary doctrine is the doctrine of Christ. Christians must believe with all their heart that Jesus of Nazareth is indeed "GOD manifest in the flesh" who lived on earth as a sinless Man, died for our sins, rose again the third day, ascended to Heaven, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father, and is our great High Priest in the heavenly Sanctuary. Those who do not have this doctrine are said to have the spirit of antichrist.

2. This brings us to the doctrine of God and the triune Godhead. Those who deny the deity of Christ and the reality of the Trinity are already into the realm of false doctrines. The doctrine of God encompasses the character and all the attributes of God, which are always in perfect harmony. And ultimately we are dealing with the Mystery of God.

3. This brings us to the doctrine of the Holy Spirit. That He is indeed the third divine Person of the Godhead and has multiple ministries on earth. Those who deny that the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Father and the Son are already off-base. Those who fail to see that the Holy Spirit not only indwells the believer but also empowers the believer do not understand the work of the Holy Spirit.

4. Which brings us to the true Gospel -- that Christ -- as the Lamb of God -- died for the sins of the whole world (not just the elect) and then rose again for our justification. And God gives the gift of eternal life freely to whosoever believes on the Lord Jesus Christ and turns away from their sins and idols. That salvation is purely by God's grace through faith in Christ alone and His perfect finished work of redemption, and that God now commands all men everywhere to repent. That the Gospel itself is the power of God unto salvation, and that the Holy Spirit uses the Gospel to bring sinners to the Savior.

5. And this brings us to what God expects from the children of God. That denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly,righteously, and godly in this present world, and zealously maintain good works. That worship is our primary occupation, and we are to be bold witnesses for Christ. That we are to know our position in Christ as children of God, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, and kings and priests within the Royal Priesthood of Christ. That every believer has at least one spiritual gift which must be exercised for the glory of God and the edification of the saints.

6. And that brings us to the doctrine of the Church. That the Church is the Body, Bride, and Building of Christ, consisting of all Jews and Gentiles who have been born of God, born of the Spirit, and born from above, and that the saints must gather together as a local body of believers to fulfill the functions of the Church on earth as per Acts 2.

We know that there are other related doctrines which are not to be minimized or neglected but the above truths are of the greatest significance. If anyone teaches that which is contrary to the above, then they are not holding to sound doctrine.

 

[Helen]

Our disagreements over doctrine show our lack of maturity as a body of believers, and we just blow back and forth like the waves of the ocean.

But if we get past this we build up the body, each of us building up each other in love.

I see that these endless disputes are against love, and without love, how will we ever fulfill the Law of Christ?

I almost mentioned the 'love word' in one of the posts...but didn't as it usually leads to someone responding with ..."you are far too liberal" or something like that.

So that leads me to ask, if we keep the two great commandment that Jesus left us with. Which as I see as fulfilling all the 10.....would we automatically be keeping and walking in 'sound doctrine' ?

Love is the bottom line.. if not, sound doctrine is nothing more than 'a sounding brass and tinkling symbol...'

I see so many thread preoccupied "must do this and must do that.." and harsh judgements on groups, denominations etc..yet never underpinned by love as the motive of redeeming the the christian brother or sister.

So, what good is doctrine if God's love is not shining through it..
Then it would be heard hit it's mark and be received.

Is it too far a reach to say that doctrine taught without the heart of love, is not SOUND, but just dead rules?

 

[marks]

I almost mentioned the 'love word' in one of the posts...but didn't as it usually leads to someone responding with ..."you are far too liberal" or something like that.

So that leads me to ask, if we keep the two great commandment that Jesus left us with. Which as I see as fulfilling all the 10.....would we automatically be keeping and walking in 'sound doctrine' ?

Love is the bottom line.. if not, sound doctrine is nothing more than 'a sounding brass and tinkling symbol...'

I see so many thread preoccupied "must do this and must do that.." and harsh judgements on groups, denominations etc..yet never underpinned by love as the motive of redeeming the the christian brother or sister.

So, what good is doctrine if God's love is not shining through it..
Then it would be heard hit it's mark and be received.

Is it too far a reach to say that doctrine taught without the heart of love, is not SOUND, but just dead rules?

I think true doctrine reveals God. God identifies Himself with love, and makes the defining attribute that shows we have a relationship with Him as our love for each other.

So I think sound doctrine reveals God, and increases us in love.

and if we aren't growing in God's grace and love, and aren't growing in our live for each other, then what is our doctrine doing for us?

Much love!

 

[Helen]

We can know the difference between sound doctrine and false doctrine (a) only from what is actually revealed in the Bible and (b) through spiritual discernment.

Ah, right. That is where I am having a problem. My problem is people who says- " this is what the bible says"...yet when I read it is is far from what the bible is saying!! Some people twist scripture to fit with what they believe.

1. The primary doctrine is the doctrine of Christ. Christians must believe with all their heart that Jesus of Nazareth is indeed "GOD manifest in the flesh" who lived on earth as a sinless Man, died for our sins, rose again the third day, ascended to Heaven, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father, and is our great High Priest in the heavenly Sanctuary. Those who do not have this doctrine are said to have the spirit of antichrist.

Yes agree.

I agree with the rest of your post but I have a question.

Re what you wrote about the godhead ( trinity) and what you wrote about the Holy Spirit...

3. This brings us to the doctrine of the Holy Spirit. That He is indeed the third divine Person of the Godhead and has multiple ministries on earth. Those who deny that the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Father and the Son are already off-base. Those who fail to see that the Holy Spirit not only indwells the believer but also empowers the believer do not understand the work of the Holy Spirit.

So, I don't disagree with anything you said.

But what about those ( I know) who do not see the godhead as written in you post. Some on this Site have declared that these people 'are lost'.

I do not. Never will I tell another believer that they are lost. Lost their way a bit, but still headed along the road to the City.

Some of these people are more loving, forgiving, giving and walking a righteous life than those who condemn them.

So I have to say that when we all reach the end of the road, doctrine is not what we offer to our Lord. "Nothing in my hand I bring, simply to thy cross I cling." All we will have to give is 'our heart'...and He will line up the two great commandment next to it as it is 'weighed in the balance'.

I know this kind of thread is not your favourite , I am too chatty. :)
But I do appreciate you taking your time to respond.

 

[Helen]

I think true doctrine reveals God. God identifies Himself with love, and makes the defining attribute that shows we have a relationship with Him as our love for each other.

So I think sound doctrine reveals God, and increases us in love.

and if we aren't growing in God's grace and love, and aren't growing in our live for each other, then what is our doctrine doing for us?

Much love!

Lovely agree. It is the foundation on what all else is built upon. Christ Himself.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

I almost mentioned the 'love word' in one of the posts...but didn't as it usually leads to someone responding with ..."you are far too liberal" or something like that.

So that leads me to ask, if we keep the two great commandment that Jesus left us with. Which as I see as fulfilling all the 10.....would we automatically be keeping and walking in 'sound doctrine' ?

Love is the bottom line.. if not, sound doctrine is nothing more than 'a sounding brass and tinkling symbol...'

I see so many thread preoccupied "must do this and must do that.." and harsh judgements on groups, denominations etc..yet never underpinned by love as the motive of redeeming the the christian brother or sister.

So, what good is doctrine if God's love is not shining through it..
Then it would be heard hit it's mark and be received.

Is it too far a reach to say that doctrine taught without the heart of love, is not SOUND, but just dead rules?

I believe that GOD Is Love as John has said in his epistle, I believe also the words of our Lord, saying about we should love one another as he had loved for his disciples. We as Christians should follow his steps.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

I almost mentioned the 'love word' in one of the posts...but didn't as it usually leads to someone responding with ..."you are far too liberal" or something like that.

So that leads me to ask, if we keep the two great commandment that Jesus left us with. Which as I see as fulfilling all the 10.....would we automatically be keeping and walking in 'sound doctrine' ?

Love is the bottom line.. if not, sound doctrine is nothing more than 'a sounding brass and tinkling symbol...'

I see so many thread preoccupied "must do this and must do that.." and harsh judgements on groups, denominations etc..yet never underpinned by love as the motive of redeeming the the christian brother or sister.

So, what good is doctrine if God's love is not shining through it..
Then it would be heard hit it's mark and be received.

Is it too far a reach to say that doctrine taught without the heart of love, is not SOUND, but just dead rules?

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1 Corinthians 13:1 yeah! In Words and Deeds.

 

[Berserk]

The Apostasy had its earliest beginnings during the Smyrna stage of the church shortly after the last of the Apostles fell asleep, but the true falling away began during the Pergamos stage (meaning "earthly elevation") with the rise of Papal system. It is important to realize that the Great Apostasy or falling away is not merely something which is taking place now, it has already taken place, and continues even to this day. Only the sanctuary class have escaped this apostasy, the vast majority of the professing church still remains captive.

This post is exhibit A of "unsound doctrine." Harvest assumes without evidence that the letters to the 7 churches are prophetic types of churches throughout history. No academic commentary on Revelation accepts this heresy! In fact, the letters reflect concrete historical situations in the cities addressed. To read a type into Scripture you need explicit biblical authorization for that type.

 

[Enoch111]

But what about those ( I know) who do not see the godhead as written in you post. Some on this Site have declared that these people 'are lost'.

Only God knows and sees hearts. So no one can tell someone else what is their standing before God. However, if someone actively promotes disobedience to God and Christ, that is another matter.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

This post is exhibit A of "unsound doctrine." Harvest assumes without evidence that the letters to the 7 churches are prophetic types of churches throughout history. No academic commentary on Revelation accepts this heresy! In fact, the letters reflect concrete historical situations in the cities addressed. To read a type into Scripture you need explicit biblical authorization for that type.

and @Harvest 1874

Harvest is right about church ages, though, for us, I believe the church age of Sardis has affected us the most with its heresy regarding sin not separating us from Christ. Jesus calls it the dead church. Also, I do not agree that the apostasy started in Smyrna, as Jesus has nothing correctional to say to it. Pergamos, on the other hand, is where the mixing with paganism began, "Satan's seat/throne." It also held to the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, though that doctrine did not continue through Thyatira. But it was certainly rekindled by Sardis, and has affected every Protestant denomination since the Reformation.

The Book of Revelation is PROPHECY. The prophetic aspect of the letters to the seven churches could not be seen until it truly became history and could be seen in the exact order they were written. For you to think that the letters are one dimensional and have no bearing on us is being spiritually blind, especially calling the prophecies heresy and not even being able to recognize prophecy when you read it. The letters are three dimensional and prophetic. The cities in question/individual Christians/but mostly prophecy of church ages.

 

[Berserk]

1stCenturyLady: "The Book of Revelation is PROPHECY. The prophetic aspect of the letters to the seven churches could not be seen until it truly became history and could be seen in the exact order they were written. For you to think that the letters are one dimensional and have no bearing on us is being spiritually blind, especially calling the prophecies heresy and not even being able to recognize prophecy when you read it. The letters are three dimensional and prophetic. The cities in question/individual Christians/but mostly prophecy of church ages.[/QUOTE]

The letters to the 7 churches fit the structural pattern of a widespread prophetic speech form. What makes them prophetic is the way they moderate the conditions of divine forgiveness for each church addressed. Prophecy is neither inspired "forthtelling" nor prediction of the future; it regulates the conditions of divine forgiveness and redemptive security. That claim is based on the many definitions and explications of this charism in the Jadaism of late antiquity and the early church, including the NT. I did my Harvard doctoral dissertation on the gift of prophecy and my professors agreed with my conclusions. I repeat: no modern academic commentary agrees with your view that the letters to the 7 churches are types of a future church age and you can provide no evidence from Revelation itself for this false teaching. Rather, each letter addresses specific pastoral and cultural situations in the cities addressed.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Ah, right. That is where I am having a problem. My problem is people who says- " this is what the bible says"...yet when I read it is is far from what the bible is saying!! Some people twist scripture to fit with what they believe.



Yes agree.

I agree with the rest of your post but I have a question.

Re what you wrote about the godhead ( trinity) and what you wrote about the Holy Spirit...


So, I don't disagree with anything you said.

But what about those ( I know) who do not see the godhead as written in you post. Some on this Site have declared that these people 'are lost'.

I do not. Never will I tell another believer that they are lost. Lost their way a bit, but still headed along the road to the City.

Some of these people are more loving, forgiving, giving and walking a righteous life than those who condemn them.

So I have to say that when we all reach the end of the road, doctrine is not what we offer to our Lord. "Nothing in my hand I bring, simply to thy cross I cling." All we will have to give is 'our heart'...and He will line up the two great commandment next to it as it is 'weighed in the balance'.

I know this kind of thread is not your favourite , I am too chatty. :)
But I do appreciate you taking your time to respond.

You're lucky. He rarely, if ever, responds to mine. LOL Maybe he has me on ignore.

There are scriptures I find very interesting about the Spirit, and because of them, I would never be so dogmatic as to say that if you don't believe in the Trinity, you are not saved. The "Jesus only" Pentecostal group is one. The Oneness Pentecostal group is another. Jehovah Witnesses are another. (I hear outbursts of shock!!!) Even Mormons, crazy as that may seem with their man-made speculations and false prophet, still believe in the Jesus of the KJV. To truly understand the Godhead, we would have to be God, Himself. Or Theirselves. ;)

Romans 8:9 "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." (Here we see the Trinity in Spirit.)

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? (JW's believe Jesus is the Christ, and do not deny Jesus.) He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also. ("Jesus only" has the Father whether they recognize the difference, if any, or not.)

Colossians 2:8-10 "8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, ("only Trinitarians are saved") ("only their group is saved"), according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. (Oneness Pentecostal and Trinitarian)

Genesis 1:26a "26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness (Trinitarian)

1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." (Oneness Pentecostal, and Trinitarian).

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Prophecy is neither inspired "forthtelling" nor prediction of the future

Wow! So you don't believe in the PROPHECY of the second coming of Christ. Okay - bye!