1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured What is the 3rd temple?

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by theefaith, Aug 26, 2020.

  1. liafailrock

    liafailrock Active Member

    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    138
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Excellent verses from Zechariah about the temple and end times. As complex as the subject can get, this is one surefire sign that something is happening when it is build for all to see. The Jewish people quote these very verses looking for opportunity to build it. I am watching (and praying) constantly seeing these things coming to pass.
     
    Davy likes this.
  2. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,926
    Likes Received:
    1,156
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Daniel refutes both expectations, (your's and @Keraz 's), but EVERYONE is FREE to believe what they want, -- even False Doctrines. :)

    Bobby Jo
     
  3. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,846
    Likes Received:
    5,030
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    a general question, open to anyone then? It is not that (imo, an opinion is all it is)there will not be a physical Temple... But instead the manifestation and appearing and reveal of His physical Temple, is His collective body of people, established and rooted: as the place where God has chosen to put His Name and His Spirit within. ‘blessed are they for they will be filled.’ Filled with whom? It was (unless I’ve misunderstood) His temple in the OT filled with His Glory, where God enters in the NT and remains within His Temple built up on the foundation of Christ.

    They feel they need a temple for the Messiah to come. Not all. For His word says not all are Israel but those after the Spirit. Those after the flesh being blind and crying out for a physical temple minding earthly things is (their mindset), where if they build their flesh pot for sacrifices of sin, then He will come into it and light it up with His glory. To point to those after the flesh, blinded, voicing it is about a physical temple they need to rebuild (instead of rebuilding His people), honestly I do not understand. To the point where if anyone says otherwise, or says it is about Christ and His body then it is offensive. Very offensive. ‘Spit on that’ ‘that is not real, that is not visible, we need something we can touch and feel and stick our hands into!’

    God is not a respecter of persons. His word says that after the flesh is flesh. Of the Jews or of the world. How much eminence would you put on those of the world who seek after the flesh?


    ‘So why would it be another church or place that does not mean anything to the Jew?’

    why would it be another church ...do you mean His body built up and edified as a place, a Home for His Spirit to dwell? ‘Or a place that does not mean anything to the Jew’ that is the lust of the flesh in seeking its own and not anothers: a place ‘Where He places His Name) then ‘means nothing’ insisting on another temple resurrected of dead stones and not living (Alive)stones. The place of Christ ...is this the place which means nothing to them? Consider resurrection...to revive. What is ‘needed most’ to revive a building, structure, a place to offer up sacrifice ..or ‘to revive’ resurrect those broken down and rebuild (built up in the Spirit a rejoicing) the true habitation of God?

    ‘It's a practical issue that they need the building for Messiah to come.‘

    again... the ‘need’ a physical monument, seat altar, tower, house, sacrifices, lamb ...temple to worship for the messiah to come’

    not all for Paul spoke of edification and rebuilding of what had been wasted...His body...where He is received into, so did the prophets and other apostles. Charity seeks not her own but ministers to another. 1 Peter 1:11-12 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. [12] Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

    the glory that should follow His sufferings...
    ‘The glory that should follow’ entering into this third temple needed rebuilt before they can worship?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
    Bobby Jo likes this.
  4. liafailrock

    liafailrock Active Member

    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    138
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I don't fundamentally disagree with what you say as the ultimate Temple, in which their eyes will be open, after the Return and they are converted. But the subject at hand is the third temple, a physical place they feel that's needed for Messiah (before His Return) as I have already pointed out. That's the third temple made by fleshy hands. Or to put it another way, what you describe ultimately will be the 4th or at the very least a great renovation of the 3rd as I don't think the third will survive the Day of the Lord in its human form.

    The reason I believe the temple they have planned now is "short" literally, is due to the cubit measure. As far as I know, they are using the 18" cubit which is wrong. There was the royal cubit used instead closer to 21" And if I may throw in another Sir Isaac Newton slant here, he believed in the sacred cubit of about 24". Indeed, it's 1/10,000,000 th the polar diameter of the earth in a similar fashion the metric system meter is 1/10,000,000 th of a quarter circumference along a certain meridian (Satan's substitute). This is why the inch and centimeter are mathematically related and the ties with Egypt, Israel, and Britain. Anyway I digress.

    The whole idea is that Israel looks for her Messiah who she missed the first time around. What is left? They will be corrected and allowed to continue on looking for Messiah according to the Temple mandates of the OT. This, in turn, will bring about a substitute Messiah commonly called AntiChrist who they at first will think is Christ. So, as in Jesus' time where they had a temple and then he showed up, likewise with the false Messiah.

    Don't confuse this temple with what the Lord will ultimately set up. Likewise this is not to be confused with being needed to Atone for sins. I don't think anyone here is saying that. The issue pragmatically speaking is about a building which must be built for the end to come. And if one wants to think the Temple is more symbolic or built with the lively stones of the saints. I have no issue. I'm saying that's coming afterwards.
     
  5. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,926
    Likes Received:
    1,156
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    "Pragmatically speaking" is NOT to suggest "Scripturally Speaking". -- One WANTS/EXPECTS a "temple"; the other REFUTES such "temple". And as previously asserted, the Dan. 11:31 "temple" is the Neve Shalom in Istanbul, Turkey, -- not some future re-construction of Herod's Temple or any other ancient "temple" edifice.


    What's more important, History or Imagination? -- IMAGINATION OF COURSE! :confused:
    Bobby Jo
     
  6. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes Received:
    890
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The Book of Daniel declares JUST THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU SAY.

    The final "one week" of Daniel 9:27 is about the placing of an abomination in a temple in Jerusalem. The greater detail is given in the Daniel 11 chapter about the "vile person" as symbolic for the final Antichrist in Jerusalem for the end of this world.

    Lord Jesus prophesied about the "abomination of desolation" in Jerusalem for the end, as when He quoted from the Book of Daniel about it, Antiochus IV in 165 B.C. had already been dead for about 200 years. So NO APPLYING ANTIOCHUS TO THE DANIEL 11:31 SCRIPTURE. The "abomination of desolation" event has to still be future.

    That event is about the ending of sacrifices with a STANDING TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM, and instead the placing of an idol abomination in false worship. IT REQUIRES A STANDING JEWISH TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM to be fulfilled.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
    liafailrock likes this.
  7. liafailrock

    liafailrock Active Member

    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    138
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Well said, and this is both pragmatic and Scriptural.
     
    Bobby Jo likes this.
  8. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,926
    Likes Received:
    1,156
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I DISAGREE! -- I would propose that for it to be "Scriptural" one would have to FIRST substantiate the Dan. 11:31 premise. But that would require one start at 11:1 by first identifying who Darius the Mede was, and then progress through History until one arrived at verse 31. But EVEN THAT is INSUFFICIENT, because CONTEXT demands validation both IN FRONT and AFTER verse 31.

    And because neither the Commentators nor Newton were able to resolve this 11th Chapter, -- we must FIRST arrive that we're in the "time of the end", and then (and ONLY THEN) proceed with the TRUE solution of this Chapter, and also this Book.

    With Best Regards,
    Bobby Jo
     
  9. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    25
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Nope, it's my idea.

    I'm the bad guy.

    I figured it out with three other guys on a forum thread in 2015, right while it was happening.

    1) The Netherlands (2000)
    2) Belgium (2003)
    3) Canada (2005)
    4) Spain (2005)
    5) South Africa (2006)
    6) Norway (2009)
    7) Sweden (2009)
    8) Argentina (2010)
    9) Iceland (2010)
    10) Portugal (2010)
    11) Denmark (2012)
    12) Brazil (2013)
    13) England and Wales (2013)
    14) France (2013)
    15) New Zealand (2013)
    16) Uruguay (2013)
    17) Luxembourg (2014)
    18) Scotland (2014)
    19) Finland: (signed 2015, effective 2017)
    20) Ireland: (2015)
    21) United States: (2015)<-------1290 days------->Sun/Moon.
    21) United States: (2015)<-------1290 days------->EofW.

    I'm bad bad bad bad bad, I'm nationwide.

    No, Yes, you're right, the Revelation 11:1-2 Temple is NOT the heavenly Temple that Paul is talking about. There's two temples in Revelation 11. At the beginning of the Chapter, John's talking bout the judgement of the people alive prior to the second coming. At the end of the chapter is God's Real Temple in Heaven. (Where the censer gets cast down). That's the one Paul's talking about in Thessalonians. That's the Temple that matters, the Temple of God.

    The Temple at the start of Revelation 11 is the judgement of the living. The temple that John is measuring, with the measuring rod in Revelation 11, is the same concept as Jesus was talking about In Acts:

    "and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.​

    And it's connected with this from Matthew 24:

    "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come.
    And it's certainly linked with what John was told in Revelation 10:

    “You must prophesy again concerning many peoples and nations and tongues and kings.”​

    Think about it, this Temple in Revelation 11:1, winds up at the end of the chapter with the 7th trumpet. And that's when the preceding Chapter states that the "mystery of God" would be accomplished.

    "but that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.​

    John measuring the temple in Revelation amounts to the Judgement of the living. The "measuring rod" that John is given is his written word, the Gospel, published in the Holy Bible.

    "For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.​

    The inner court will result in the defining of God's People alive during the last days prior to His arrival. Who will measure up? The outer court, the gentiles, are the lost. This reminds me of Revelation 20 where they marched across the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves.

    What I'm saying that sounds weird, or spooky, is that many of these things have started already and are happening now, but are remaining largely unrecognized.

    I'm saying that there's just no time remaining for the Hal Lindsey schematic, Rosemary's baby and the rebuilt temple, to play itself out. But IF I'm wrong, there will still be time for me to join your team, but not time for you to join mine in the eschatological countdown.

    Think of it like this. If I'm right, the two witnesses are here, the man of sin is here, he is sitting in the temple of God. We are already part ways through Revelation 13 and into the signs that the Dragon is given the power to do on behalf of the composite beast.

    But if YOU are right, we still have time. Time to take a nap. Time to look for a deal on a new Dodge Ram. Wake me up when they start work on a new temple.

    I think that it was God Himself who moved men to build the Dome of the Rock right on the Temple mount. So that we wouldn't think of doing anything silly, like try to build another temple there.

    I say that the Heptads have played themselves out again, based on two modern day decrees to restore and to rebuild, and that once again, the TIME is fulfilled.

    It's just that this time, it won't depend on the Old Time Jews to redeem the 70 weeks. All they are doing now is holding up two sign posts along the way in the time line.

    All of Creation is groaning for it.

    Peaceful Sabbath.
     
  10. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes Received:
    890
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Strange that @Bobby Jo taught against it, but then 'liked' your #127 post.
     
  11. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes Received:
    890
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The Daniel 11:31 is the actual Scripture I meant about the future coming Antichrist sitting in a rebuilt Jewish temple in Jerusalem for the end of this world.

    The "abomination of desolation" event that Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel is covered in several Daniel Scriptures:

    Daniel 8 about the "little horn", which represents the Antichrist for the end...

    Dan 8:9-14
    9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

    10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
    11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

    12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
    13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, 'How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?'
    14 And he said unto me, 'Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.'
    KJV

    And in Daniel 9:27 the ending of sacrifices in Jerusalem and the spiritual desolation of the temple is repeated...

    Dan 9:26-27
    26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed.
    27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."

    RSV

    Same subject. The "little horn" of Dan.8 is that "desolator". It is not about the Roman general Titus, because Titus in 70 A.D. could not desolate inside the 2nd temple in Jerusalem, because it burned down before the Romans could get possession of it. And a staff with an eagle on it among a pile of rocks is not... what these Daniel Scriptures declare, even as what Antiochus IV did in 165 B.C. stands as a blueprint for the "abomination of desolation". Yet Jesus warned of the "abomination of desolation" about 200 years after... Antiochus had been dead.

    And in the Daniel 11 Scripture...

    Dan 11:21-31
    21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

    22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
    23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

    24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.
    25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him.
    26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many shall fall down slain.
    27 And both these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.
    28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

    29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
    30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

    31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
    KJV

    The "strong covenant" the "vile person" makes with a small people (small group) is that "league" of Dan.11:23. It will involve the re-establishing of the old covenant worship for the unbelieving Jews in today's Jerusalem. The Dan.11:31 verse is the "abomination of desolation" event Jesus was warning about in His Olivet discourse (Matthew 24; Mark 13).

    And also in Daniel 12...


    Dan 12:6-12
    6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, 'How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?'

    7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by Him That liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
    8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, 'O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?'
    9 And he said, 'Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

    10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
    12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
    KJV

    God caused the abomination of desolation setting up of an idol inside a Jewish temple in Jerusalem to be repeated that often in the Book of Daniel, so that none have an excuse to misunderstand that it is about a standing temple being spiritually desolated by an idol abomination placed in it. Antiochus IV set the blueprint for the final Antichrist at the end of this world, who will fulfill that "abomination of desolation" in a new temple in today's Jerusalem.
     
  12. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    25
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I think it's funny.

    Bobby Jo is smarter than the average bear.

    So it might not really be a "like", like you think it is.

    It might be sarcastic.

    "Like that's just great", where the "great" really means no so great.

    [​IMG]

    Or it could mean that he put the "like" there because it made him laugh so hard and roll around on the floor.

    Like when I write a long note and he ends his reply with a:

    Whew!

    Peaceful Sabbath.
     
  13. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,926
    Likes Received:
    1,156
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Sorry didn't see your response earlier because you're on IGNORE!

    To get to the END of the Chapter, you must first transcend the previous verses. And your "account" doesn't conform to the LITERAL TEXT of the previous verses. So you disagree with Scripture and History, -- not me.


    Bobby Jo
     
  14. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,926
    Likes Received:
    1,156
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    As just stated, to arrive to your Dan. 8, 9, & 11, you must first transcend the previous verses, -- which you can't defend.

    So go your way, and receive your "reward".
    Bobby Jo
     
  15. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,926
    Likes Received:
    1,156
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Rmans 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. 29 They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God’s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them.
     
    Dave Watchman likes this.
  16. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes Received:
    890
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Nah, you didn't come up with that idea. I've been seeing that false doctrine that the "temple of God" in 2 Thess.2:4 is about the spiritual temple of Christ for over THIRTY YEARS! You probably weren't even pooping yellow back then.
     
  17. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes Received:
    890
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    What you just said is absolutely meaningless. I quoted the relevant Daniel Scripture 'text' about the "abomination of desolation" event Jesus warned of here...

    Matt 24:15-16
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
    KJV

    Mark 13:14
    14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

    KJV
     
  18. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes Received:
    890
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    You're just throwing out words without any backing at all.

    The Daniel Scripture I quoted is its own... defense. The miracle is when you start to heed it as written, which so far you only push words that don't amount to anything.
     
  19. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes Received:
    890
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Just another silly idea by those which God through Isaiah prophesied about for the end long, long ago...

    Isa 5:20
    20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
    KJV
     
  20. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    25
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It's nice to see you have a sense of humor, but that wasn't what I was talking about.

    What I was talking about was that the man of sin, the Devil, took his seat in the Temple of God on 6.26.2015.

    The "earth" that helped the woman from Revelation 12, is the same "earth" that the Dragon has risen from in Revelation 13, and that "earth" is the United States of America.

    The U.S.A. is the holy place, a "place prepared by God". America has swallowed the flood spewing forth from the Dragon's mouth after the Foxe Book Days came to an end, when Pay Pal Persecution came to an end, in 1798. America is where the Abomination now stands.

    It's been like a tribulum of the Matrix where everyone has been walking around like things are normal, but they are not.

    Peaceful Sabbath.
     
Loading...