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Featured What is the 3rd temple?

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by theefaith, Aug 26, 2020.

  1. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    There's something wrong with your memory then, because in your post #129 you are replying to my posting where I said that the "temple of God" of 2 Thess.2:4 is not the spiritual temple idea of Ephesians 2.

    Possibly you don't realize how your trying to play mind games is seen by the Biblically serious believers on Christ Jesus here on the forum.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  2. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Member

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    Yes there might be something wrong with my memory, but I've no time for mind games.

    What would there be to win?

    Any confusion should be cleared up by this:

    The Revelation 11:1 temple is not the Heavenly Temple that Paul is talking about.

    Paul is talking about the Temple, God's Temple, in Heaven.

    The Temple of God in Heaven, the True Tent, is where God's authority originates from.

    Not in a building made by human hands.

    What I'm saying that is different, that is radical, is that this is happening now. The falling away has finally culminated with the man of sin taking his seat, assuming the rule of authority, in the things that are only meant to be in God's Domain.

    Peaceful Sabbath.
     
  3. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    You only showed how you are MORE CONFUSED by that. Your two statements above that I underlined DIRECTLY CONTRADICT EACH OTHER.

    You are... funny and do like games!
     
    Dave Watchman likes this.
  4. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Member

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    This Isaac Newton deal is still sounding spooky to me.

    I want to dig out all the data again and find something new.

    I think Newton knew when the coming of the Son of Man would be, but he wasn't saying it.

    I also don't agree with everything he said, like the crucifixion in 34 AD.

    But logic dictates that there had to be a provision for two comings of Messiah embedded within the enigmatic text of Daniel 9.

    Two comings, two temples.

    "The Israelites in the days of the antient Prophets, when the ten Tribes were led into captivity, expected a double return; and that at the first the Jews should build a new Temple inferior to Solomon's, until the time of that age should be fulfilled; and afterwards they should return from all places of their captivity, and build Jerusalem and the Temple gloriously, Tobit 14:4, 5, 6: and to express the glory and excellence of this city, it is figuratively said to be built of precious stones, Tobit 13:16, 17, 18. Isa. 54:11, 12. Rev. 11 and called the New Jerusalem, the Heavenly Jerusalem, the Holy City, the Lamb's Wife, the City of the Great King, the City into which the Kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour. - Isaac Newton.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Make this proclamation!
    Amos 3:1-8 Listen you Israelites to these words that the Lord addresses to you, all of the twelve tribes that He brought up from Egypt; You alone I have cared for among all the nations of the world, that is why I must punish you for your sins. Do two travel together without agreeing? Or if disaster comes, is it not the work of the Lord? Indeed the Lord does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants, the prophets.
    Israelites; now all the Christian peoples, Jew and Gentile; all those grafted into the Tree of Jesus.

    Amos 3:9-11 Make this proclamation: Assemble on the hills of Samaria, look at the tumult seething amongst the people! Those who don’t know how to do right and who live by oppressing others. Therefore the Lord says: The destroyer will surround your land, your strength will fail and your towns will be despoiled.

    Listen to this testimony against the descendants of Jacob. As a shepherd may rescue fragments of a sheep from a lion, so will only a remnant of Israel be rescued. On the Day that I deal with Israel, for their sins, I will also destroy their pagan shrines and their ostentatious buildings. Only a remnant of the Jews will survive. Romans 9:27

    Amos 4:12 Israel, this is what I shall do to you, so Israel: Prepare to meet your God.

    Amos 5:4-9 These are the Words of the Lord to the people of Israel: Seek the Lord, if you want to live, or He will sweep through Joseph’s descendants like a fire with no one to quench it. He who made the stars, has power over all things, He will make a destruction flash forth against the mighty that wipes out their military power.
    An explosion on the suns surface. Isaiah 30:26a, Malachi 4:1

    Amos 5:10-15 You that despise the truth, you that extort tribute, though you have fine buildings and beautiful farms, you will not enjoy them. For I know of your crimes and monstrous sins – but at this time, keep silent, because now are evil times. You must hate evil and love good and it may be that the Lord will show favour to the survivors of Joseph.
    Joseph- the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh, now scattered among the Western nations.

    Amos 5:16-17 Therefore the Lord says: In the towns and in all the world, there will be mourning and sorrow, for I will pass through your midst.
    This refers to the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, the next prophesied, worldwide event; the Sixth Seal Day of the Lord’s wrath.

    Amos 5:20The Day of the Lord is indeed a Day of deep darkness and terror.

    Amos 9:8b-15 Yet, I shall not totally destroy Israel’s posterity. I shall shake Israel among the nations, none will be lost, but the ungodly among My people will die. Those who say disaster cannot come to us, we are strong and safe. The fallen House of David will be restored as it was long ago.

    The time is coming when the Land will be prosperous, My people will live in their own Land, eating and drinking the abundant produce. They will never again leave the Land that I, the Lord, have given to them. Amos 9:13-15

    Look forward to the great promises of redemption and going to live in all of the holy Land, for My people, now every faithful Christian believer: the true Israelites of God.
    Reference: REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.
     
  6. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes people make mistakes, but you shouldn't abuse it.

    Bobby Jo
     
  7. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Member

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    What have you to do with me McKeras?

    What's all this Amos about?

    Have you come to disrupt me before the appointed time?

    It looks to me like you're mixing up the OT end times with the NT end times, and mixing up Day of the Lord Prophecies with Apocalyptic Prohecy.

    Is it an anomaly?

    Or was it baked in the cake to be?

    Can we harmonize the OT end times, with the NT end times?

    There are five different types of Bible Prophecy.

    Each of these five types have different qualities and are sometimes written in a different architecture.

    1) Local Prophecy
    This would include things like Noah's flood, or Jonah's visit to the people of Nineveh. Or that King who wanted to live awhile longer and saw his shadow move backwards.

    2) Messianic Prophecy
    These had to do with Jesus' first Visitation. Like Isaiah 52 He Was Pierced for Our Transgressions. 13Behold, my servant shall act wisely;b he shall be high and lifted up, and shall be exalted.
    Kings shall shut their mouths because of him, for that which has not been told them they see,
    and that which they have not heard they understand.

    3) Day of the Lord Prophecy
    Very peculiar in their structure. Like Isaiah 13. John MacArthur calls them near / far prophecies. In a Day of the Lord Prophecy the Prophet can begin in an ancient Day of the Lord event pertaining to the Babylonians, and then can seem to peer down through the millennia to the final and ultimate Day of the Lord that will include all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.

    4) Judaic Prophecy
    These were CONDITIONAL prophecies that pertained to ancient Israel. If you do this, then I will do that.

    If
    they put away the bodies of their dead kings, THEN show them the plan of the Temple.

    IF
    you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands, I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth.

    All these blessings will come on you and accompany you IF you obey the Lord your God:

    5) Apocalyptic Prophecy
    Apocalyptic Prophesy has unique characteristics. These Prophecies are separated by chronological order. Each of these have a beginning point in time, and an ending point in time. There are 17 Apocalyptic prophecies, and 18 prophetic time periods, in the Books of Daniel and Revelation.

    Jesus said in Mark that:

    “The TIME is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”​

    The TIME is fulfilled.

    What TIME was He talking about?

    The Daniel 9 Time.

    To Seal Both Vision and Prophet.


    God had three prophets in operation at the same time. Daniel, Ezekiel and Jeremiah. Three prophets, but He was giving them two different end time narratives. Everything hinged on Israel's behavior during the 70 weeks. 70 weeks were determined, 70 weeks were chawthak or cut off. It really was old Israel's one last and final chance:
    • to finish the transgression,
    • to put an end to sin,
    • and to atone for iniquity,
    • to bring in everlasting righteousness,
    • to seal both vision and prophet,
    • and to anoint a most holy place.
    The Kingdom of God was in their midst. All that they would have had to do was to accept their Messiah. It's why John the Baptist was always saying that the Kingdom of God was at hand. Because it really was at hand right then and there. If the Old Time Jews would have cooperated and accepted their Messiah it would have been a completely different world right now. Daniel would have remained forever sealed, Revelation would have never been written. We would have built Ezekiel's Temple sometime in the middle ages.

    The original plan was for the Jews to accept their Messiah, how Jesus would have loved to gather them as a hen gathers it's chicks. Then Jesus would have began the Kingdom of God on earth right away because it really was "at hand" at that time. John the Baptist would not have died the way that he did, "lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction". Jesus would have sent disciples out from Jerusalem to invite anyone who wanted to be a part of the Kingdom, and be saved, to come and live there in the Kingdom of God in the 1st century. Jerusalem would have eventually grown to such a huge population that it's walls could no longer contain it.

    Then, after some time, Lucifer in the guise of Gog Magog would attempt to attack the unwalled Holy City, but Jesus would destroy him and his army where they stood and we would spend the next seven years burying them and burning their wooden weapons. And the wolf would lay down with the lamb and we could watch an infant stick his hand into a viper's den while we built Ezekiel's Temple.

    But they missed the TIME of their Visitation. So now instead, Paul gets knocked off his horse, the NT gets written, Daniel gets unsealed for the final generation, we get an end time Babylon, an end time Antichrist, mark of the beast, two witnesses and 144,000, Jesus makes His second Visitation and we have a brand New Jerusalem with an end time variation on Gog Magog after the 1000 years.

    Does this describe how the crucifixion occurred?:

    Him Whom They Have Pierced

    “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn. On that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. The land shall mourn, each family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shimeites by itself, and their wives by themselves; and all the families that are left, each by itself, and their wives by themselves.​

    Or is this describing the original method of how Jesus would have been sacrificed if humanity had not turned Him over to the enemy?

    It's looking to me like everything that has taken place in the world since 1535 has been so that Israel would become a nation again in 1948. The Ottoman empire, WW1, WW2, 1948 and all the trees. But the one and the only reason for all this to happen was so that Israel could capture Jerusalem and then in 1969 create a reason for the Knesset to make an official decree to "restore and build Jerusalem".

    "Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks.​

    This was written 2600 years ago and at that time there may not have been a second coming required. The Jews might have redeemed the 70 weeks in the first century. Jesus would have come one time only and never ascended back to heaven, making a second coming unnecessary. Daniel 9 had to be written in such a way to include both the primary visitation of Jesus AND the possibility of a secondary visitation in a compact and simultaneous fashion.

    [there will be seven 'sevens,'] and [sixty-two 'sevens.']​

    Primary Visitation [and] Secondary Visitation.

    [​IMG]

    "And in January 1969 the Company was established.

    "Now let them put away their harlotry, and the dead bodies of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them forever.
    (What IF they don't put away the bodies of their dead kings, do they still get the plan of Ezekiel's temple?)



     
  8. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Talking about abusive......you get that prize!

    I view all the Prophetic Word as a complete story.

    I posted some prophesies of Amos to prove that the holy Land is soon to be cleared and cleansed, Deuteronomy 32:34-43
    The faithful people of God, every born again Christian, will gather there and live in the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5
    WE will build a new Temple to the glory of God. Zechariah 6:15
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  9. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Was that Satan's original plan? That was not God's plan at all. The fullness of time was the "flattening of the curve". There was 4000 years to get to the top of this sin pandemic. Then the church had 2000 years to get it back to the bottom of the curve. Except historically it flat lined around the time, the church decided to make a physical kingdom and play the harlot with all the world's governments. The sin pandemic by the first quarter of the 20th century was worse than Jesus' day, and 2 World Wars had to "flatten" the curve once again.

    God's plan was that sin and the punishment given to Adam would run a whole 6 millenia. The 4th Command: 6 days shalt thou work, but never forget the 7th. Now we are back to working 7 days non stop, and humanity has forgotten even God, much less, Remembering what the 7th Day of the Lord is.
     
  10. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Will this "Prize" be like the Nobel? SWEET!

    Bobby Jo
     
  11. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    There's an old document called the Westminster confession of faith which was written in 1646 as a sort of standard of faith for the Church of England. The first church that I attended regularly, after being born again in Christ, an independent Baptist congregation, used that document as their own standard "except for the part about the Pope being the antichrist."
    The formation of the Church of England could be viewed as a political move against the authority of the Pope of the RCC and the document as a justification , but the authors viewed the person of the Pope as a man who was seated in the place of God on Earth, complete with blasphemous titles reserved for God alone, eg: "Holy Father."
    I'll confess that as a young Roman Catholic who read scripture, I was very much offended by the same sort of thing.
    From a spiritual stand point, there is no need for a third physical temple (actually a fourth because Herod rebuilt the 2nd temple making the one present prior to 70 ad the 3rd temple). There no longer remains any need for daily sacrifices, sacrificial feasts, or separate priesthood to approach God for the propitiation of sin. Redemption is complete in Christ, even though we haven't yet received the full redemption of our bodies freed from sin as in the resurrection.
    Having said that, the believing orthodox Jews know that they can not perform the ritual requirements of the Law (of Moses) without a temple, the ritual articles for the sacrifices, a priesthood, and a red heifer without blemish. There is a modern temple society busy about the work of identifying the descendants of Aaron, producing the golden articles for the Holy place, etc. Even many secular Israelis would be thrilled to see the temple, that symbol of world centrality and religious dominance, erected once again on the temple mount in Jerusalem. I don't believe another physical temple is necessary prior to the millennial reign of Jesus Christ for prophetic fulfillment of the infamous passage about the Antichrist, however, given the overwhelming rejection of Christ by the majority of the world, and the very real movement to reestablish temple worship in Jerusalem, there's no reason to assume that there won't be literal fulfillment of all prophetic passages about the antichrist.
     
  12. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    While I'm generally inclined to agree with your biblical perspective, Daniel 11:21-35 was previously fulfilled, at least in part, by Antiochus Epiphanes. The abomination of desolation as mentioned by Christ and in reference to Daniel is described in the Law of Moses as that idolatrous object or objects that bring destruction upon the house into which they are brought. The Law gives a general description applicable to any house, while Daniel applied this specifically to the temple.
     
  13. liafailrock

    liafailrock Active Member

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    I agree with Sir Isaac Newton's assessment of the 70 weeks as that made the most sense to me. It has for a long time. So I'm not sure why I'm being bashed like I don't understand Newton when I read up on what he said. I had my "signature" for a long time. But... he did believe in a literal temple in the end times. That I know and I can't find information that says he changed his mind on that. As a matter of fact, everything that is known about Newton's beliefs were found in his notes. Notes are notes and one does not see one thing one day and another another day. That (the belief in the temple) was derived by what he had written. He knew he was considered apostate in his day which is why he never had his work published, not because he changed his mind. In those days, publishing something like that would be certain death. As for his 34 AD crucifixion, I also believe that. I did my own astronomical calculations and found that was the only year from 26 to 36 AD that the day of the week for Passover was correct. I also believe that Christ lived 12240 days (I won't get into the gematria) but if this was true, then his birthday fell on the feast of Trumpets as told by Revelation 12:1. When I calculated back 12240 days, it came out exactly, so I have a belief what years I believe he was born and died, although I am not dogmatic about it. 12240 days have a biblical basis, the original coming from the Great Pyramid, but I discovered on my own why the Lord lived 33.5 years supported by scripture. Two witnesses establish a matter.
     
  14. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Member

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    Yes there was 4000 years. But the Old Time Jews had 490 specific years to bring in what? That's right, everlasting righteousness, to put away sin. All that they would have had to do was to redeem the 70 weeks. 70 weeks were cut off, or cut out, for Daniel's people. Jesus would have loved to gather them as a hen gathers it's chicks.

    By the time that the curtain was rent, the only "holy place" at Jerusalem was the 1500 feet perimeter around the OUTSIDE of the city wall. That was the earth, the ground, given by God to the Levites in Numbers, for their gardening and their cattle grazing.

    "The pasturelands of the cities, which you shall give to the Levites, shall reach from the wall of the city outward a thousand cubits all around. - Numbers 35:4

    The Levites were the priestly tribe so they didn't share in the land handouts. They still needed someplace to keep their animals and to have a garden. When the Romans did their siege, that's exactly where they had to stand, trampling the tomatoes of the priestly tribe. When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, a parallel to our end time standing in the holy place.

    What I was trying to suggest in post 147 was that there might not have been a NT "church" at all, if John the Baptist didn't get his head cut off. Something different COULD have taken place. The one thing that the Old Time Jews did do was to seal up the vision and the prophet. Now we get the Daniel/Revelation deal. This is the reason, one of the reasons, that Isaac Newton had to be correct about what he said re Daniel 9. There had to be a provision in that enigmatic text for two comings of Messiah. One of the good things is that I'm pretty sure that we won't have to burn wooden weapons for 7 years anymore.

    This I agree with. I agree with the 6000 years, and then the literal 7th "day" 1000 year span, the millennium.

    Peaceful Sabbath.

    Sweet.
     
  15. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Member

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    I remember who you are, I recognize your avatar.

    My brother's name is Tim, but he's not from PA.

    I remember getting us kicked off the forum that night. That was my fault. They didn't like my date setting. They band me for a year. I just waited a while, then registered with a lower case d for dave. That fooled them. That was a long time ago, 2013? 2014?

    I saw page 5. I wouldn't worry about it. Bobby is smart, but he's like the Don Rickles of Bible eschatology. Slapstick.

    I agree with him not having his work published. That was back in the dark days of Pay Pal Persecution. The Pope would have sought to have him burned at the stake. The Dragon was chasing the woman during the Foxe Book days back then. They were burning prominent people at the stake back then.

    I don't believe everything Newton said. And it's tricky. I think he put things out there like a smoke screen, a diversion. He said some thing about 2060, and had this elaborate concoction of why. But I think Newton knew what it was, and that it would be happening right about now. He talked about a decree maybe not coming from the Jews themselves, but from a friendly nation. It was like a hint. That was written when? I'm not sure right now. The middle 1700's? So Newton would have HAD to have known about the Ottoman decree in 1535 to rebuild Jerusalem.

    The Walls of Jerusalem (Hebrew: חומות ירושלים‎, Arabic: أسوار القدس‎) surround the Old City of Jerusalem (approx. 1 km²). In 1535, when Jerusalem was part of the Ottoman Empire, Sultan Suleiman I ordered the ruined city walls to be rebuilt. The work took some four years, between 1537 and 1541.[1][2] The walls are visible on most old maps of Jerusalem over the last 1,500 years.

    [​IMG]
    Walls of Jerusalem - Wikipedia
    But I wouldn't hold Newton responsible for a rebuilt temple.

    I wouldn't hold him to it.

    Jesus said there would be an abomination standing in a "holy place'.

    I say again:

    By the time that the curtain was rent, the only "holy place" at Jerusalem was the 1500 feet perimeter around the OUTSIDE of the city wall. That was the earth, the ground, given by God to the Levites in Numbers, for their gardening and their cattle grazing.

    "The pasturelands of the cities, which you shall give to the Levites, shall reach from the wall of the city outward a thousand cubits all around. - Numbers 35:4

    The Levites were the priestly tribe so they didn't share in the land handouts. They still needed someplace to keep their animals and to have a garden. When the Romans did their siege, that's exactly where they had to stand, trampling the tomatoes of the priestly tribe. When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, a parallel to our end time standing in the holy place.

    Paul knew about this, and I'm sure Paul knew Jesus' words in Matthew 24.

    Do you think, especially after knowing the other Pauline epistles regarding the Author of our salvation, that Paul would call a rebuilt temple where they sacrificed the blood of bulls, the temple of God?

    Or are some of us demanding that this temple from Thessalonians be built to fulfill an erroneous understanding that comes from a Hal Lindsey book, a Dave Pack video, or some other prophecy expositor from the past?

    Because waiting for a rebuilt temple relaxes me. My master is delayed. It's going to be a while. I'll take a nap with the virgins. Sounds nice.

    But no,

    I think it's happening now.

    I fear something big could hit any day.

    I'd be more afraid of saying January 2021, and have something hit next Monday.

    Be ready in season and out of season.

    I'm a 30 AD guy. I'm sure of it. The moon was all wrong for 34AD. The time, the Daniel 9 time, was fulfilled in 27AD when Jesus went into the synagogue and read from the Isaiah 61 scroll. 34 AD was the end of the heptad. For there to have been a middle of the week, there had to be an end of the week.

    But it WAS tricky. Jesus was eating the last supper, the Passover, in the upper room on Thursday with His disciples. The Old Time Jews were rushing to bury Jesus on Friday, so that they could eat their erroneous Passover a day late on Friday.

    Jesus was following conjunction, the Jews missed by a sliver.

    Peaceful Sabbath I say.
     
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