What is the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?

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JBO

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And why would anyone (especially anyone who has read the writings of Paul) assume they would not be saved?

But, my post was about using basic logic skills. Which seem to be sorely lacking.
Logic demands that in Mark 16:16 both believing and being baptized are the conditions for being saved. The conjunction is "and" which means that both serve as conditions together. The logic demands that if either is lacking, then the condition for being saved has not been met.
 

Lambano

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Logic demands that in Mark 16:16 both believing and being baptized are the conditions for being saved. The conjunction is "and" which means that both serve as conditions together. The logic demands that if either is lacking, then the condition for being saved has not been met.
No, and you don't understand how to analyze an IF (A AND B) THEN C statement. If the predicate clause is not satisfied, you can conclude nothing. What you can conclude is that if C is not true, then either A or B or both are not true. Mark further refines his IF-THEN statement in verse 15 with verse 16, focusing solely on NOT A (unbelief). NOT B (lack of baptism) is not addressed.
 
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St. SteVen

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St. SteVen

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Logic demands that in Mark 16:16 both believing and being baptized are the conditions for being saved. The conjunction is "and" which means that both serve as conditions together. The logic demands that if either is lacking, then the condition for being saved has not been met.
Is this a misquote?
For it is by grace you have been saved, through baptism—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

If so, what should it say?

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JBO

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No, and you don't understand how to analyze an IF (A AND B) THEN C statement. If the predicate clause is not satisfied, you can conclude nothing. What you can conclude is that if C is not true, then either A or B or both are not true. Mark further refines his IF-THEN statement in verse 15 with verse 16, focusing solely on NOT A (unbelief). NOT B (lack of baptism) is not addressed.
Yeah, I am quite familiar with IF A and B then C. If both A and B are true, then C is true. If either A or B is not true, it doesn't matter whether the other is true or not. Why bother to address it? It is not an IF and only IF A and B then C. Thus knowing the condition of C says nothing about either A or B.
 

JBO

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Is this a misquote?
For it is by grace you have been saved, through baptism—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

If so, what should it say?
As someone I won't name here said, "How can you say you believe (have faith) in God and not do what He says?"
 

Wick Stick

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Is this a misquote?
For it is by grace you have been saved, through baptism—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

If so, what should it say?

[
The original says though faith, but faith (aka belief aka repentance)... it is a part of baptism.
 
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JBO

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So, why do we treat Mark 16:15-16 as though it were an IIF (A*B) => C statement as in post 681?
Nothing in post 681 treats Mark 16:16 as a logical IFF function. Interestingly, although I believe that it truly is an IFF function, it is not Mark 16:16 that states it to be so.
 

DJT_47

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I do, and I reckon many others would like to model their practice of Christianity after that of the early church.

Also... yes, that is a validation. If the people who lived in the era Scripture was written interpreted it a certain way... why is your version different?

I do believe them; I have not contradicted them. I only contradicted YOU, because you made the completely-false-claim that there is no record of churches delaying baptism until they were sure that converts were... real converts. There are many records of that happening.

Who do you think is closer to the authentic practices of Jesus and the apostles? Today's church, or the ones that personally met them? This should be a no-brainer.
Follow the scriptures not the so-called "early church" which which as I indicated, was already going astray as the scriptures were being penned.

Have you not read the 1st three chapters of Revelation and the message Jesus had for the 7 "early churches" of Asia? And from that point the "early church" in general terms, got worse! What did the "early church" denigrate to? I could go on to name some of the organizations that morphed out of the "early church" and became their own churches, not at all resembling the scriptural church. You can't confuse the church of the bible with what is commonly referred to as the "early church" say like in the few centuries that proceeded, and today we have literally thousands of difuse branches or offshoots of the true, scriptural church. And don't make reference to today's church as though it were one body; it's not, and it's worse than ever! I believe the church of the bible CAN be replicated today by following the scriptural guidelines and pattern, not necessarily by following the teachings and practices of the "early church", which is somewhat nebulous. You can evangelize, and generate baptized believers in new locales, establish an eldership, with deacons, ministers, etc, and have a new, true, local body of Christ today anywhere in the world; Its done all the time. And yes, there were, and are, good congregations, but there are way more congregations today consisting of nothing at all resembling the church of the bible, some of which organizations embody thousands of people! I think we have to be careful in what we follow and what we describe as the church, early or otherwise. Not all religious so-called Christian bodies are truly the body of Christ, most of which don't have a clear understanding of how souls are saved.
 
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DJT_47

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This is speaking figuratively of the Flood (as a sort of baptism) and Noah being saved.
Here's the context.

1 Peter 3:18-21 NIV
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous,
to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah
while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also
not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[b]
It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—
with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

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It doesn't matter. It still says baptism does now save us. It says what it says, which can't be refuted or unsaid. If it says baptism saves us, then baptism saves us!
 

St. SteVen

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As someone I won't name here said, "How can you say you believe (have faith) in God and not do what He says?"
Let's be honest. No one does everything he says. How are you doing on this list?

Matthew 10:8 NIV
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons.
Freely you have received; freely give.

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Wick Stick

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No, and you don't understand how to analyze an IF (A AND B) THEN C statement. If the predicate clause is not satisfied, you can conclude nothing. What you can conclude is that if C is not true, then either A or B or both are not true. Mark further refines his IF-THEN statement in verse 15 with verse 16, focusing solely on NOT A (unbelief). NOT B (lack of baptism) is not addressed.
I think if there is belief (A), then God will bestow the Holy Spirit (secret letter D), and then the water (B) becomes a bit of a moot point.