What is the Lords Day?

[St. SteVen]

I think that's more of a tradition than Scripture. It seems to originate with Philo of Alexandria in the 1st century.

Deuteronomy claims internally to have been at least partly written by Moses.

Partly. ?? Claims partly. ??? Claims internally partly. ???? Claims internally at least partly. ??????
Quite the solid foundation we have here. - LOL
Sorry. What were you saying?

 

[Wick Stick]

Partly. ?? Claims partly. ??? Claims internally partly. ???? Claims internally at least partly. ??????
Quite the solid foundation we have here. - LOL
Sorry. What were you saying?

Moses probably didn't write Genesis. Genesis doesn't say he did.

Actually, Genesis seems to be a compilation of works. We can even separate them, because they have headings "these are the generations of _____."

 

[St. SteVen]

Moses probably didn't write Genesis. Genesis doesn't say he did.

Actually, Genesis seems to be a compilation of works. We can even separate them, because they have headings "these are the generations of _____."

Thanks.
This is a dangerous thing to discuss on a Christian forum, unfortunately.
We should stop here. (before we get in REAL trouble) - LOL

 

[Wick Stick]

Thanks.
This is a dangerous thing to discuss on a Christian forum, unfortunately.
We should stop here. (before we get in REAL trouble) - LOL

Sorry if I made you uncomfortable. Honestly that doesn't seem very controversial.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

The House of Israel is not the Jews (they are the House of Judah).

The House of Israel is the northern kingdom - the one the Assyrians destroyed. At the time Jesus said that, the House of Israel hadn't existed for hundreds of years. He made it exist again by adopting Gentiles to create it anew.


I don't remember the tribes of every apostle being given? I know Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin. It is insinuated in several places that 12 disciples were chosen to rule over the 12 tribes.


The Sabbath commandment doesn't say to celebrate, or to have services, or even to come together. It says to REST on that day.

Jewish tradition added a lot of garbage to the commandment that made it labor instead of rest, but we shouldn't act like that stuff was actually commanded.


The Sermon on the Mount was given in Galilee of the Gentiles. It isn't part of Judah. There were Jews there, but Matthew gives the impression that the majority of the crowd was local:

And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan. (Matt 4:25)

There were Jews there, but Matthew gives the impression that the majority of the crowd was local:???????

I understand that Matthew is declaring that God's purposes never were restricted to one nation even though he, himself, seemingly favored that nation in order to proclaim something on earth to all the nations.

But I am digressing again..... With what I feel should be clear to all.

Ok.... condensing this down

In Matthew 5-7 we have the Sermon on the Mount. (Jesus delivered this message near the beginning of His ministry and it is the longest of Jesus' sermons recorded in the New Testament .

In Matthew 6:7 we have 7 “And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. 8 So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

( Be there Gentiles or even Samaritans in the crowd.... this sermon was not directed to them)

In Matthew 10:6 we have Jesus stating Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(Again , those pesky Gentiles are to be avoided)

In Matthew 15:24 we have Jesus telling his disciples But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Of course this is followed by the Caananite/Syrophoenician woman's plea for help and Jesus said her faith was great)
Jesus says He was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel)

I sense a specific agenda. Do you?

 

[Wick Stick]

Jesus says He was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

And who are the lost sheep?

Not the Jews.

 

[St. SteVen]

Sorry if I made you uncomfortable. Honestly that doesn't seem very controversial.

No worries, you're fine. Just wanted to give you a heads-up of potential issues.
I agree. We should be allowed to discuss such things.
It might be okay on this forum. Not sure.

I got in trouble on another forum.
Someone may have a BIG problem with suggesting that Moses didn't write the Pentateuch.
But, as you probably know, there are theories about these things.

 

[St. SteVen]

And who are the lost sheep?

Not the Jews.

What?
How could the lost sheep of Israel NOT be the Jews? (just wondering)

 

[Wick Stick]

What?
How could the lost sheep of Israel NOT be the Jews? (just wondering)

When Solomon died Israel split into two nations.

The nation in the south was the House of Judah, and includes the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, Simeon, and most of Levi. Its capital is Jerusalem. These people are commonly called Jews.

The nation in the north was called the House of Israel, and includes the rest of the tribes. Its capital was Samaria. These people are not Jews, as they are neither descended from Judah, nor part of the land that is historically referred to as Judea. The Bible refers to them as Jacob or the House of Jacob, or the House of Israel, or sometimes as Ephraim, since that was the most important tribe in that kingdom. Its territory is comprised of Galilee, Samaria, Perea, Trans-Jordan, Gadara, and some other names I forget.

The lost sheep of the House of Israel refers to the descendants of that northern nation. They were lost because the Assyrians destroyed their nation and the survivors were absorbed into the other nations in the region and lost any separate identity as part of Israel.

I admit it's confusing. The House of Israel and Israel are similarly named, but not the same thing. The House of Israel is only half of Israel.

-Jarrod

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

And who are the lost sheep?

Not the Jews.

Who are the lost sheep of Israel and 12 reasons why it's important to know… | Hoshana Rabbah Blog

Matthew 10:6, Lost sheep of the house of Israel.The phrase the house of Israel is used 146 times in the Scriptures, and has several possible meanings depending on the context of the surrounding verses in which it is found. To … Continue reading →

hoshanarabbah.org

Who are the lost sheep of Israel and 12 reasons why it’s important to know…​

Although this phrase can include all the tribes of Israel and not just the Jews who were largely from the tribe of Judah, in Matthew 10:6, Yeshua seems to equate the lost sheep of the house of Israel with the Jews who were living in the land of Israel in his day, and not to the rest of the Israelite tribes who were at that time scattered among the Gentile nations. It was Yeshua’s priority to take the gospel message first to the Jews in Jerusalem and Judea, and then to the rest of the world, and he expected his disciples to follow this same pattern (Acts 1:8).

Matthew 10:6, Lost sheep of the house of Israel.The phrase the house of Israel is used 146 times in the Scriptures, and has several possible meanings depending on the context of the surrounding verses in which it is found. To help us to define this term, let’s discover its historical roots or how it originated.

Prior to the division of the united kingdom of Israel after the death of Solomon, this phrase referred to all twelve tribes of Israel. Afterward the death of Solomon, the nation of Israel split into two nations—the Northern Kingdom and the Southern Kingdom. The latter was comprised primarily of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi, while former kingdom was comprised of the remaining tribes of Israel. During this time, the phrase the house of Israel as a reference to the Northern Kingdom of Israel was often used in contradistinction to the phrase “house of Judah” in reference to the Northern Kingdom of Israel.

In the Testimony of Yeshua, the Messiah makes reference to the “lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt 10:6; 15:54). To which tribes was he referring? All of them or only some of them? Elsewhere in the Testimony of Yeshua this term refers to all twelve tribes of Israel (Acts 2:36; 7:42; Heb 8:10), and in some references it refers just to the Northern Kingdom (Heb 8:8). The point here is that the context of the passage of scripture surrounding this phrase determines its meaning.

Although this phrase can include all the tribes of Israel and not just the Jews who were largely from the tribe of Judah, in Matthew 10:6, Yeshua seems to equate the lost sheep of the house of Israel with the Jews who were living in the land of Israel in his day, and not to the rest of the Israelite tribes who were at that time scattered among the Gentile nations. It was Yeshua’s priority to take the gospel message first to the Jews in Jerusalem and Judea, and then to the rest of the world, and he expected his disciples to follow this same pattern (Acts 1:8).

In the larger sense, the Scriptures reveal that all of YHVH’s people have been like sheep that have gone astray spiritually, every man to his own way, because of sin (Isa 53:6). So in the broadest sense, this phrase refers to all the tribes of Israel including Gentiles with which they have mixed themselves through intermarriage.

Eventually, the gospel message is for everyone universally. Yeshua demonstrated this when, on several occasions, he ministered to non-Jewish Gentiles including preaching the gospel message to the Samaritan woman in John chapter four, the Syro-Phoenician woman in Mark chapter seven, and the Roman centurion in Matthew chapter eight.

Twelve Benefits of Understanding Who
the Two Houses of Israel Are

Is the commonly called “two house” or “two-stick” message” of the Bible something we should study? Are there any spiritual and prophetic benefits to understanding who the two houses of Israel are? The answer is yes. I would prefer to call it the “One House Message,” since this biblical truth involves the regathering and reunification of the Jews (the house of Judah) and the Christians (the house of Israel or Ephraim) into one nation through Yeshua the Messiah. This is the one new man message Paul proclaimed in Ephesians chapter two. This is the great and largely overlooked truth behind the message of the gospel of Yeshua the Messiah. This is why it’s important to understand.

• We will understand the deeper implications and background of the gospel message.
• We will understand with whom YHVH is making his new covenant (Jer 31:31–33; Heb 8:8).
• We will understand who YHVH’s chosen people really are (Deut 7:6; 14:2). They’re not just the Jewish people.
• We will understand who Abraham’s descendants are who will be blessed (Gen 12:3; Gal 3:29; Rom 4:16; 9:8–11).
• We will understand that non–Jews are no longer Gentiles (who are without God and hope), but are part of the commonwealth or nation of Israel (Eph 2:11–19).
• We will understand who the Israel of Elohim really is (Gal 6:16).
• This knowledge will give us a key to understanding much of biblical prophecy by knowing who the key players are in all the prophecies pertaining to Israel.
• We will gain a true understanding of many biblical terminologies and Hebraisms.
• We will understand who the lost sheep of the house of Israel are that Yeshua and his disciples came to regather (Matt 10:6; 15:24).
• All forms of racism including racial superiority in the church will be eliminated as the unbiblical Jew-Gentile paradigm falls giving way to true unity within the body of Yeshua as the revelation of who the “one new man” really is arises.
• Our love and esteem for the Jewish people and the modern day land of Israel will increase.
• Our love for YHVH’s Torah will increase.

 

[Wick Stick]

@Rella A lot of that article is fine, but there really isn't any place where that phrase refers to Jews.

Speaking to actual Jews, Jesus said:

I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd. (John 10)

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

@Rella A lot of that article is fine, but there really isn't any place where that phrase refers to Jews.

Speaking to actual Jews, Jesus said:

I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd. (John 10)

Question.... Do you have a nick name for your wife???? Babe? Honey? Sweetie? Poopsie?... one you use more often than not?

If in conversation with a friend you ran into somewhere and you said something like "I came to find Honey". do you think that the person you were talking to would know who you meant?

Although this phrase can include all the tribes of Israel and not just the Jews who were largely from the tribe of Judah, in Matthew 10:6, Yeshua seems to equate the lost sheep of the house of Israel with the Jews who were living in the land of Israel in his day, and not to the rest of the Israelite tribes who were at that time scattered among the Gentile nations. It was Yeshua’s priority to take the gospel message first to the Jews in Jerusalem and Judea, and then to the rest of the world, and he expected his disciples to follow this same pattern (Acts 1:8).

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

When Solomon died Israel split into two nations.

The nation in the south was the House of Judah, and includes the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, Simeon, and most of Levi. Its capital is Jerusalem. These people are commonly called Jews.

The nation in the north was called the House of Israel, and includes the rest of the tribes. Its capital was Samaria. These people are not Jews, as they are neither descended from Judah, nor part of the land that is historically referred to as Judea. The Bible refers to them as Jacob or the House of Jacob, or the House of Israel, or sometimes as Ephraim, since that was the most important tribe in that kingdom. Its territory is comprised of Galilee, Samaria, Perea, Trans-Jordan, Gadara, and some other names I forget.

The lost sheep of the House of Israel refers to the descendants of that northern nation. They were lost because the Assyrians destroyed their nation and the survivors were absorbed into the other nations in the region and lost any separate identity as part of Israel.

I admit it's confusing. The House of Israel and Israel are similarly named, but not the same thing. The House of Israel is only half of Israel.

-Jarrod

Jarrod?

 

[Wick Stick]

It was Yeshua’s priority to take the gospel message first to the Jews in Jerusalem and Judea, and then to the rest of the world, and he expected his disciples to follow this same pattern (Acts 1:8).

I don't think so. In the gospels, I think you will find that Jesus avoided going to Judea for the most part, and only traveled there to keep the Jewish feasts. Even when He did that, He took measures to keep people from knowing that He was going there. And when He got there, He didn't stay in Jerusalem, but in Bethany, several miles away.

His ministry was centered in Galilee, not Judea.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I don't think so. In the gospels, I think you will find that Jesus avoided going to Judea for the most part, and only traveled there to keep the Jewish feasts. Even when He did that, He took measures to keep people from knowing that He was going there. And when He got there, He didn't stay in Jerusalem, but in Bethany, several miles away.

His ministry was centered in Galilee, not Judea.

He still said.... definitively..,.


In Matthew 10:6 we have Jesus stating Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Not he himself but directing those who were to go

Then in Matt 15:24 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Can you prove, biblically, that Jesus initially came for someone other then the Jews....

Unless it is written... I will take what I read to be fact.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

No worries, you're fine. Just wanted to give you a heads-up of potential issues.
I agree. We should be allowed to discuss such things.
It might be okay on this forum. Not sure.

I got in trouble on another forum.
Someone may have a BIG problem with suggesting that Moses didn't write the Pentateuch.
But, as you probably know, there are theories about these things.

I would like to know about that definitively myself.

I found this... here

Who Wrote the Books of Moses?

Did Moses write the 5 Books of Moses? A sampling of passages . . . Matthew 8:4 KJV And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them. See Leviticus 14 Matthew 19:7-8 KJV 7) They say...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[St. SteVen]

I would like to know about that definitively myself.

I found this... here

Who Wrote the Books of Moses?

Did Moses write the 5 Books of Moses? A sampling of passages . . . Matthew 8:4 KJV And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them. See Leviticus 14 Matthew 19:7-8 KJV 7) They say...

www.christianityboard.com

Thanks, I'll check it out.


@Wick Stick