What Is The Meaning Of Jesus The Son Of God? and Why?

[Taken]

The original human was Adam.....and God created him from the dust (elements) of the earth but Eve was created from Adam’s DNA.....

DNA Not scriptural.

she was not formed from the dust.

Yet…”she” “returns” to dust…

Their God-given ability to procreate meant passing life

and breath onto all of their offspring.

Humans don’t pass breath to their offspring.

Death was not mentioned as a natural process in Eden, but rather that death would only result from disobedience. So if the first humans had never chosen to disobey, they never would have died.

They were forgiven…when God made them coats of animal skin, covering their Sin….and as they were being escorted out of the Garden they had opportunity to reach out and eat of the Tree of Life (and Live forever) but didn’t.

Everlasting life in their mortal flesh was guaranteed by the presence of the “tree of life” which was also in the garden. Once the humans had sinned, access to that tree was denied.....

Gen 3:
[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of thetree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
[24] So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

the ageing process began, and sickness and death have stalked us ever since. (Gen 3:22-24)

Earth was never to be a training ground for heaven.....

I would say A training for a Relationship with the Lord God.

this was to be our permanent home.

Agree.

Jesus as the “logos” was God’s spokesman....one who spoke God’s words as he said.....nothing he taught was of his own originality, but came from his Father. (John 7:14-18)

Sons become the Father.

The human body that God “prepared” for his son, was an embryo,

Not Scriptural.

not of human origin, but came directly from the Creator by his spirit, and implanted in the womb of a chosen Jewish virgin.

Gods Word came directly out of Gods mouth.
Isa 55:11

The child was born but he was not a son of Adam, but a son of God....sinless but 100% mortal human.

No, I do not believe Gods Word was or is a created mortal human man.

I believe Gods Word is God inasmuch as your word is you.

Can humans kill an immortal God?
Unless Jesus died the same death as Adam, the ransom was not paid, and we are all still condemned in our sins.

The payment was designed and established by God according to His Order and Way.

Jesus in his pre-human existence,

Likeness AS a human is not the same as IS a human.

Humans are dust / elements of the Earth. And the Elements of the Earth sustain a humans life (which is Blood).
A human cannot Become Quickened ie. (born again OF Gods Seed)…UNTIL the Flesh body of a man-KIND (male or female), is Accounted (according to Gods Order and Way)….Bodily DEAD in Belief IN the Lord God.

1Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

willingly offered to become the means to rescue Adam’s children, ‘thrown under the bus’ by their earthly father. The debt he incurred was transferred to them, because this is what redemption means. In Israel, if a father incurred a debt, his children could be put to work to pay it off if the father could not pay it, or if he died before the debt was paid. The children were not released from the debt until the last coin was paid back. Only then were the children released from servitude.
The only other way to release the children, was for a generous benefactor to pay the debt for them.
This is what Jesus did.

A man who could not PAY his debt, was to offer his himself for Labor, servitude, (work off his debt)….and that hinges on Slavery, and making a MAN your Master…to which he may be A Master…to require works that are ungodly….and that leads into WHY…men should NOT Borrow….because you might not be able to repay….and find yourself a mans slave.

His life was sinless and so it paid the debt in full, and released Adam’s children from slavery to sin and death.

Individuals are forgiven and freed From Sin, according to Gods Order and Way….which By, Through, Of Gods Word….we were Given a Surety Way to receive Gods Spirit IN us….assuring He would Keep us by, through, of His Power…with the Lord God Almighty…Forever.

Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Unless you understand the mechanics of it, you will wander of into the endless realms of assumption.

I have Gods Word…in Writing…in ink on paper and written in my heart….and the Understanding thereof…according to Gods Understanding, available to me 24-7 for the Asking…which I do.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Aunty Jane]

DNA Not scriptural.

Who said?
In the human body there are 24 long, thin, curved bones enclosing the chest cavity. Arranged in 12 pairs, they form a cage protecting the heart and lungs. Blood is produced in the marrow of the rib bones.
Lev 11:14...
"For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I myself have given it on the altar for you to make atonement for yourselves, because it is the blood that makes atonement by means of the life in it."

This is the significance of the rib.....used to create the woman....she was made from his DNA.

In the creation of the woman, God did not make her separate and distinct from man by forming her from the dust of the ground, as he had done in the creation of Adam. He took a rib from Adam’s side, and from it He created for Adam a perfect counterpart, the woman Eve. (Gen 3:21-22) Despite being minus a rib, Adam nevertheless, remained a perfect man, now united as ‘bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh’ with his wife. (Gen 2:23) But this did not disturb the reproductive cells of Adam so as to affect his children, boys or girls, in their rib structure. The human male and female both have 24 ribs."

Yet…”she” “returns” to dust…

According to science....
"The human body is approximately 99% comprised of just six elements: Oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, carbon, calcium, and phosphorus. Another five elements make up about 0.85% of the remaining mass: sulfur, potassium, sodium, chlorine, and magnesium. All of these 11 elements are essential elements."
Medical Life Sciences
So not literal dust, is it? Every living thing on earth is made of the elements that God created..."in the beginning".
Everything that dies is designed to return to the elements of the earth from which it was made....reabsorbed to facilitate new life.

Humans don’t pass breath to their offspring.

They pass "life" on to their offspring"...as all living things do.
The moment a child is born, its first instinct is to draw breath. It is the reproductive system designed by the Creator that facilitates this. But it is not something that God gives to individual babies of any species. They are not given "souls" but with the breath (spirit) of life, they become "souls"....living, breathing creatures.

They were forgiven…when God made them coats of animal skin, covering their Sin….and as they were being escorted out of the Garden they had opportunity to reach out and eat of the Tree of Life (and Live forever) but didn’t.

You assume this.....but scripturally there was no basis to forgive them......they did not make a mistake....they committed deliberate and willful sin in full knowledge of the consequences. They had no inherited sin nature to blame for their choices.
They were evicted, (not escorted) from the garden and the ground outside was cursed so that life would be a stark contrast to what it had been when their Creator had provided for them so generously. They would now "toil" for their food....not fruit, but bread, with grain grown on unproductive soil.

And who said God killed animals to provide their clothing? According to the Bible, the first ones to offer God a sacrifice were Cain and Abel. God provided the garments for Adam and his wife, but he does not offer his own sacrifices to himself.

When angels materialized, they became visible to humans fully clothed...when they dematerialized and went back to the spirit realm, they did not leave their clothing behind or someone would have surely mentioned it.....as they did in the case of Jesus. His grave wrappings were still in the cave, but the man who "appeared" to his apostles and disciples was fully clothed.

Gen 3:
[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of thetree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
[24] So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Yes, the tree of life would have given them everlasting life (not immortality) so for that reason the way to the "tree of life" was barred by the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword. It was off limits....until God again gives humankind access to everlasting life here on this earth.

I would say A training for a Relationship with the Lord God.

But never a training ground for heaven....the earth was designed for living souls and those souls were designed for the earth.....perfect symbiosis. Humans were to tend and cultivate the earth, and the earth would provide all their needs.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Continued...

Sons become the Father.

You will have to explain that one...scripture please....

Not Scriptural.

Since God implanted an embryo in the womb of Mary, how is it not scriptural? Jesus said he came down from heaven and that he had "glory" with his Father there, and was keen to have it restored.

John 1:3-5....Jesus said....
"This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5 So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was."

He is also called "the firstborn of ALL creation" (Col 1:15-17)......which makes him part of that creation...the very beginning of it in fact. (Rev 3:14)

Gods Word came directly out of Gods mouth.
Isa 55:11

The "logos" is God's spokesman....he has always been his spokesman. At Mamre, three angels visited Abraham...one of them identified himself as "Jehovah", but since there is not a single scripture that says God became a man, the pre-human Jesus was his representative who spoke on his behalf. He is the "image" of his Father.....as a son reflects the personality traits of his parent.

No, I do not believe Gods Word was or is a created mortal human man.

I believe Gods Word is God inasmuch as your word is you.

My word is from me but it isn't me.
If you don't believe that Jesus was a mortal human, then you have no understanding of the ransom he paid, or how he redeemed the human race. He was not a sinful descendant of Adam, nor was he God incarnate, as no scripture says this.

The payment was designed and established by God according to His Order and Way.

He has explained clearly in his law to Israel what redemption meant....why would it mean something different to what he indicated to his people?

Likeness AS a human is not the same as IS a human.

He was a living spirit in heaven before his human birth, and he returned there as a spirit after his resurrection. He was God's "only begotten son" before he ever came to the earth.
Col 1:15-17 says that he is "the firstborn of ALL creation".....he is "the image" of his Father....an image of something is not the real thing, but a reflection of that original.

A human cannot Become Quickened ie. (born again OF Gods Seed)…UNTIL the Flesh body of a man-KIND (male or female), is Accounted (according to Gods Order and Way)….Bodily DEAD in Belief IN the Lord God.

1Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Or in plain English....
"Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies."
You cannot resurrect someone who is not dead.

How much of 1 Corinthians 15 have you read...?
"But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death. 21 For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. 24 Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing."

What is this "order"? Christ is the "firstborn from the dead", then "those who belong to Christ during his presence".
What is Christ's presence?....or "parousia"? (Matt 24:3)
Hint: It is not his "coming". ("erchomai") These are two different events.

I have Gods Word…in Writing…in ink on paper and written in my heart….and the Understanding thereof…according to Gods Understanding, available to me 24-7 for the Asking…which I do.

We can only hope so......yet what you believe does not ring true for me....how can we know who is correct in their interpretation?
The thing is...we don't have to...at the end of the day, Jesus knows.....and that is all that matters. We won't know until the judgment.....who got it right, and who got it horribly wrong. This is how God chooses the best citizens for his Kingdom....all judged on who God sees them to be.......not who they see themselves to be. (Matt 7:21-23)

 

[Taken]

This is the significance of the rib.....used to create the woman....she was made from his DNA.

Not interested in a scientific standpoint discussion of reproduction.
God Makes the Seeds and GIVES to every Seed it’s own Body with its own reproducing Seeds, to reproduce it own same KIND of INDIVIDUAL thing.
The life of the Body is Blood.
God GIVES to Every Body Gods Breath Life, called a Soul.
The Life of The Soul is Gods Breath.

Life Of The Body….Blood….must die…God requires that.

Life of the Soul…Gods Breath…Never Dies.

ManKIND is a body/ has a body.
ManKIND is a soul / has a soul.
MankIND is given an Identity…name, multiple names, titles, descriptions…culminating his own unique identity.

Regardless of Where his body IS alive or dead, (on earth, in the clouds, in the earth, in the seas)…he retains the same identity of his body.

Regardless of Where his soul IS (IN his body, ON Earth, departed OUT of his body, in the Earth, in Heaven, in hell….His soul remains Living (retaining ) Gods breath of Life….
If his Soul Shall remain living forever…is revealed on Judgement day.

In the creation of the woman, God did not make her separate and distinct from man by forming her from the dust of the ground,

Every Human is of the Same Elements OF the Earth.
A Humans LIFE is sustained, by continually replenishing the body WITH Elements from within the Earth.

According to science....
"The human body is approximately 99% comprised of just six elements: Oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, carbon, calcium, and phosphorus. Another five elements make up about 0.85% of the remaining mass: sulfur, potassium, sodium, chlorine, and magnesium. All of these 11 elements are essential elements."
Medical Life Sciences
So not literal dust, is it?

Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Gen 3:
[19] In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Every living thing on earth is made of the elements that God created..."in the beginning".
Everything that dies is designed to return to the elements of the earth from which it was made....

Sure.

reabsorbed to facilitate new life.

Uh …disagree. Reusing the same dust to create another man…sounds like reincarnation.

They pass "life" on to their offspring"...as all living things do.
The moment a child is born, its first instinct is to draw breath. It is the reproductive system designed by the Creator that facilitates this. But it is not something that God gives to individual babies of any species. They are not given "souls" but with the breath (spirit) of life, they become "souls"....living, breathing creatures.

A human is both…a created body of dust of the earth and a made living soul via Gods Breath.

You assume this.....but scripturally there was no basis to forgive them......they did not make a mistake....they committed deliberate and willful sin in full knowledge of the consequences. They had no inherited sin nature to blame for their choices.

They were Told one tree to avoid…they ate from that Tree….and their Instinct of Right and Wrong Became manifested.

They were evicted, (not escorted)

How did they Know Where to Exit the Garden?
Eviction Aka Sent out of the Garden was their sentence.
They passed by the Tree of Life…they exited the East side of the Garden….pretty convenient…they KNEW to pass by the Tree of Life And Go Eastward to Exit the Garden.

And who said God killed animals to provide their clothing?

Just a wild guess…that the Skin of an animal made into clothing….that the animals life (blood) was Dead….sacrificed to use its skin for clothing to comer the Flesh of a mans sin…his flesh body.

but he does not offer his own sacrifices to himself.

It’s a foreshadow of what God would require of men to Do.

When angels materialized, they became visible to humans fully clothed...when they dematerialized and went back to the spirit realm, they did not leave their clothing behind or someone would have surely mentioned it.....as they did in the case of Jesus. His grave wrappings were still in the cave, but the man who "appeared" to his apostles and disciples was fully clothed.

The Body covering, shroud, clothing is not signifiant, being left behind.

The significance is in the Napkin, ie the Face covering, and it’s arrangement.

John 20:
[7] And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.


The napkin set away from the shroud, wrapped/ folded, care taken is Notice He shall return…
The shroud, burial clothing for the Body, insignificant regarding clue or notice of return.

That parallel is a basis for dining manners.
Napkin used for the Face.
Finished with you meal…lay the napkin on the plate covering remaining food bits that will rot.
If Not finished, but must leave the table for some reason, but shall return…fold the napkin and lay it to the side away from the food plate. That tells the waiter you intend to return.

Yes, the tree of life would have given them everlasting life (not immortality)

Everlasting life is immortality.

so for that reason the way to the "tree of life" was barred by the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword. It was off limits....until God again gives humankind access to everlasting life here on this earth.

Human KIND have Lost their ability to HAVE forever Human blood life.
In its place…God has offer manKIND a forever spirit Life…via a man receiving Gods Seed, to birth a man a “born again” spirit.

But never a training ground for heaven....the earth was designed for living souls and those souls were designed for the earth.....perfect symbiosis. Humans were to tend and cultivate the earth, and the earth would provide all their needs.

Earth shall become as it is in Heaven.
Earthly mortal men are in Training to become LIKE God and to have a forever relationship WITH God.

 

[Taken]

Continued...


You will have to explain that one...scripture please....

You can read for yourself the relationship order and way God established.

Since God implanted an embryo in the womb of Mary, how is it not scriptural?

An embryo is not a body. It becomes a body.
God prepared a BODY for His Word and sent that Body to a Virgin womb.

Jesus said he came down from heaven and that he had "glory" with his Father there, and was keen to have it restored.

Gods Glory is His Light.
Gods Light is Gods Power.
The NAME, which God calls HIS Word, His Light, IS Jesus.
The TITLE, which God calls HIS Glory IS Christ.
Christ is Gods Glory, is Gods Power, is Gods Seed.

Gods Light, Word, Power IS God…..whether or not He takes upon Himself A BODY, for men to See.

John 1:3-5....Jesus said....
"This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5 So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was."

He is also called "the firstborn of ALL creation" (Col 1:15-17)......which makes him part of that creation...the very beginning of it in fact. (Rev 3:14)

No.
He is Not a Created Human, reproduced from a seed.

Born means….Something Alive coming forth out from something alive.

When a human has a Baby…the baby comes forth from the womb and is severed from the female….nothing OF that baby remains in the mother.

Spiritually….Gods Word spirit comes forth out from God….called Born….YET Gods Word remained IN God.

Spiritually … God gives men Power via His Light that Shines Upon men, or IN men…yet all of Gods word, light, power, glory remains in Him.

God Gives His Word, His, Power, His Light, His Glory to No one. It is given men BY reflection upon or in the man. Where ever Gods word, light, power, glory, seed IS, so is God….

The "logos" is God's spokesman....he has always been his spokesman. At Mamre, three angels visited Abraham...one of them identified himself as "Jehovah", but since there is not a single scripture that says God became a man, the pre-human Jesus was his representative who spoke on his behalf. He is the "image" of his Father.....as a son reflects the personality traits of his parent.

My word is from me but it isn't me.
If you don't believe that Jesus was a mortal human, then you have no understanding of the ransom he paid, or how he redeemed the human race. He was not a sinful descendant of Adam, nor was he God incarnate, as no scripture says this.


He has explained clearly in his law to Israel what redemption meant....why would it mean something different to what he indicated to his people?

He was a living spirit in heaven before his human birth, and he returned there as a spirit after his resurrection. He was God's "only begotten son" before he ever came to the earth.
Col 1:15-17 says that he is "the firstborn of ALL creation".....he is "the image" of his Father....an image of something is not the real thing, but a reflection of that original.

Or in plain English....
"Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies."
You cannot resurrect someone who is not dead.

How much of 1 Corinthians 15 have you read...?
"But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death. 21 For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. 24 Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing."

What is this "order"? Christ is the "firstborn from the dead", then "those who belong to Christ during his presence".
What is Christ's presence?....or "parousia"? (Matt 24:3)
Hint: It is not his "coming". ("erchomai") These are two different events.

We can only hope so......yet what you believe does not ring true for me....how can we know who is correct in their interpretation?
The thing is...we don't have to...at the end of the day, Jesus knows.....and that is all that matters. We won't know until the judgment.....who got it right, and who got it horribly wrong. This is how God chooses the best citizens for his Kingdom....all judged on who God sees them to be.......not who they see themselves to be. (Matt 7:21-23)

You can compare natural thing to spiritual things….
However understanding Spiritual things with a natural, carnal minded, logical understanding is a fail, which Scripture calls foolish.

No … Jesus was not, is not, created, not a human, not from the Earth….He is God, who took upon Himself A body in the Likeness AS A Jewish Human man.