What is the narrow gate?

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nothead

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StanJ said:
No, pay attention.

Stupid is as stupid says knothead. Grow up.

The point is obvious to others. You on the other hand never get it so I won't bother explaining what is right in front of your nose.

Well as the word used is heis then it can't be neuter can it? Also the example you use is NOT the one I was referring to, but of course you know that. Another sad attempt at deflection and obfuscation.

Up the ladder I SHOWED you where the Jn 10 "I and the Father are one," has en with the hard accent, HEN. In Jn 17 in the last post Teddy Trueblood shows the same HEN of neuter one. Why do you say I am stupid when this is the crux of the matter?

Secondly you still haven't said WHY you believe God has no real name. Most trins say the OPPOSITE of this, which is that God has a plethora of names. I say ONE definitive name.

Who is stupid? Not nuthead I assure you. I mean nut nothead I assure you.
 

shturt678

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nothead said:
You bring up a good point, old Jack except your own point defeats you to a blithering mass of bupkiss.

IF "God the Son" was EVER SAID you would have your own point, and it nigh well SHOULD HAVE BEEN SAID if Jesus was in fact God the Son
.

Thank you again for your response, and caring!

Understanding the Shema, you would instantly recognize Jer.31:33, 34. Now we just have to fast forward you to Matt.22:42-45, noting Jesus put this objectively in the 3rd person: "what do you think about the Messiah?" Whose son is he? Jesus now asks and answers from Ps.110, the Priest-King at the right hand of God - Messianic Psalm" - from David's lips.

Again why would the covenant God of Israel, Yahweh Eloheka, ask His people to agape him as He did if that agape could never be realized in their hearts because of their sin and their doom under sin? His very covenant name points to the covenant promise of the Messiah in and through whose grace Israel would, indeed, come to agape the Lord their God with the whole heart, soul, and mind (Jer.31:33, 34). "The great and first commandment" (v.38) and the Messiah, David's son and David's Lord, will ever belong together ergo "God the Son."



Why? Why since the same THREE WORDS packs MORE, MORE ACCURATE, and MORE EDIFYING meaning than "Son of God."

WHOO HOO THANKS for making our case for sure!! HUMINAH stand down and repent your view!! HALLELUYAH Great God Almighty is NUMERICALLY ONE!!
One cannot help but agape that Shema,

Old Jack
 

nothead

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shturt678 said:
You bring up a good point, old Jack except your own point defeats you to a blithering mass of bupkiss.

IF "God the Son" was EVER SAID you would have your own point, and it nigh well SHOULD HAVE BEEN SAID if Jesus was in fact God the Son
.

Thank you again for your response, and caring!

Understanding the Shema, you would instantly recognize Jer.31:33, 34. Now we just have to fast forward you to Matt.22:42-45, noting Jesus put this objectively in the 3rd person: "what do you think about the Messiah?" Whose son is he? Jesus now asks and answers from Ps.110, the Priest-King at the right hand of God - Messianic Psalm" - from David's lips.

Again why would the covenant God of Israel, Yahweh Eloheka, ask His people to agape him as He did if that agape could never be realized in their hearts because of their sin and their doom under sin? His very covenant name points to the covenant promise of the Messiah in and through whose grace Israel would, indeed, come to agape the Lord their God with the whole heart, soul, and mind (Jer.31:33, 34). "The great and first commandment" (v.38) and the Messiah, David's son and David's Lord, will ever belong together ergo "God the Son."



Why? Why since the same THREE WORDS packs MORE, MORE ACCURATE, and MORE EDIFYING meaning than "Son of God."

WHOO HOO THANKS for making our case for sure!! HUMINAH stand down and repent your view!! HALLELUYAH Great God Almighty is NUMERICALLY ONE!!
One cannot help but agape that Shema,

Old Jack







A man who flails his arms in the sea KNOWS he is flailing...old Jack flails his arms having to make SECONDARY INFERENCE "God the Son" was meant by God when the plain text is never there...

...em WHY is the plain text never there, Old Jack? Care to tell us the mysterious workings of the WORD?

And why do you not see your flailing arms are in fact those of a drowning man flailing his arms?
 

shturt678

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nothead said:
Up the ladder I SHOWED you where the Jn 10 "I and the Father are one," has en with the hard accent, HEN. In Jn 17 in the last post Teddy Trueblood shows the same HEN of neuter one. Why do you say I am stupid when this is the crux of the matter?

Secondly you still haven't said WHY you believe God has no real name. Most trins say the OPPOSITE of this, which is that God has a plethora of names. I say ONE definitive name.

Who is stupid? Not nuthead I assure you. I mean nut nothead I assure you.
Thank you again for caring!

Let's simplify this down to my lower paygrade Koine 101. Jn.10:30 A way to reduce what Jesus says is to point to en and to assert that, if identity is meant by "we are one," we should have eis, a masculine instead of neuter. Mr. Augustine has answered that: en frees us from the Charybdis of Arianism, ismen from Scylla of Sabellianism.

If we had eis, this would mean that the two are one and the same person, producing patripassionism and other extravagant fancies, correct?

Jesus says, "we are en," one thing, one being, one God, one Lord, correct? The two Persons are not mingled,k for Jesus clearly distinguishes between ego and o pater; but these two, while they are two in Person, are en, one, a unit substance, or, as we prefer, a unit in essence.

Old Jack putting in for a payraise.

Probably will recieve a rank reduction :D

nothead said:
A man who flails his arms in the sea KNOWS he is flailing...old Jack flails his arms having to make SECONDARY INFERENCE "God the Son" was meant by God when the plain text is never there...

...em WHY is the plain text never there, Old Jack? Care to tell us the mysterious workings of the WORD?

And why do you not see your flailing arms are in fact those of a drowning man flailing his arms?
Thank you for your response again, and caring!

One cannot but agape those lower paygrade questions. Only the original structure of thoughts were inspired where translations of the former are aids in understanding the original inspired Autographs. Translations along with IIThess.2:11, 12 allow Bible translations say anything you want them to say.

btw the buck stops interpreting going from the ancient languages forward to the English (Jesus = God), and not backwards resulting in Jesus = / = God only as an example my true friend.

Old Jack's opinion
 

nothead

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shturt678 said:
Thank you again for caring!

Let's simplify this down to my lower paygrade Koine 101. Jn.10:30 A way to reduce what Jesus says is to point to en and to assert that, if identity is meant by "we are one," we should have eis, a masculine instead of neuter. Mr. Augustine has answered that: en frees us from the Charybdis of Arianism, ismen from Scylla of Sabellianism.

If we had eis, this would mean that the two are one and the same person, producing patripassionism and other extravagant fancies, correct?

Jesus says, "we are en," one thing, one being, one God, one Lord, correct? The two Persons are not mingled,k for Jesus clearly distinguishes between ego and o pater; but these two, while they are two in Person, are en, one, a unit substance, or, as we prefer, a unit in essence.

Old Jack putting in for a payraise.

Probably will recieve a rank reduction :D
Sorry I stopped reading Augustine when he made the daft set of premises:

The Father is God
Jesus is God
The Holy Sprit is God

God is Three in One therefore.

Nothead:

The Father is God
Jesus is next to God but under God as elohim
The Holy Spirit is God derivatively

Whoo HOO!! Maybe I get more paycheck than HIM. Think?

So then he makes a point about eis and hen, but what is it exactly since I ain't familiar with them other guys either...

YOUR point however I can possibly bean. No I am not beaning your bean, maybe your paradigm I bean. Stopped beaning your bean yesterday.

NO they the detractors were thinking what you think in Jn 10 when he said HEN he meant a HEN of common ousia as the Greeks would say...NOT at all what Jesus goes ahead to EXPLAIN:

1) Is it not said "ye are elohim" in scripture which cannot be broken?
2) If this was originally said to men of Torah, that they would be 'elohim' with God in heaven, SONS OF THE MOST HIGH...
3) Why do you say I blaspheme, when I am only saying I am THE SON OF THE MOST HIGH??

See, Jesus is NOT claiming same ontology with the Most High God but the same promise of immortality, being the beloved singular SON among sons.

shturt678 said:
Thank you again for caring!

Let's simplify this down to my lower paygrade Koine 101. Jn.10:30 A way to reduce what Jesus says is to point to en and to assert that, if identity is meant by "we are one," we should have eis, a masculine instead of neuter. Mr. Augustine has answered that: en frees us from the Charybdis of Arianism, ismen from Scylla of Sabellianism.

If we had eis, this would mean that the two are one and the same person, producing patripassionism and other extravagant fancies, correct?

Jesus says, "we are en," one thing, one being, one God, one Lord, correct? The two Persons are not mingled,k for Jesus clearly distinguishes between ego and o pater; but these two, while they are two in Person, are en, one, a unit substance, or, as we prefer, a unit in essence.

Old Jack putting in for a payraise.

Probably will recieve a rank reduction :D

Thank you for your response again, and caring!

One cannot but agape those lower paygrade questions. Only the original structure of thoughts were inspired where translations of the former are aids in understanding the original inspired Autographs. Translations along with IIThess.2:11, 12 allow Bible translations say anything you want them to say.

btw the buck stops interpreting going from the ancient languages forward to the English (Jesus = God), and not backwards resulting in Jesus = / = God only as an example my true friend.

Old Jack's opinion

Erm, most people say I am making a whole lot of nothing from the silence, the LACK of the term "God the Son." But "God the Son" would be a most natural term used often enough, when the Son IS God, according to normal nothead considerations...

So then you do not really satisfy my craving soul for Truth. Oddball arguments about hermeneutical method never excited me, sorry to say.

Nothead keeps with common sense. Will it grow your crop? Then it ain't gonna top MY MANURE.
 

StanJ

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nothead said:
Up the ladder I SHOWED you where the Jn 10 "I and the Father are one," has en with the hard accent, HEN. In Jn 17 in the last post Teddy Trueblood shows the same HEN of neuter one. Why do you say I am stupid when this is the crux of the matter?

Secondly you still haven't said WHY you believe God has no real name. Most trins say the OPPOSITE of this, which is that God has a plethora of names. I say ONE definitive name.

Who is stupid? Not nuthead I assure you. I mean nut nothead I assure you.
Whatever you think you showed me is NOT valid or reliable.

"When I said, "I and the Father are one", you should rightly stone me if I were a mere creature. But I am not a creature. But Ps 82 is valid scripture, just as it reads and it calls wicked judges "gods" and "sons of God" on the basis that they were acting as agents of God in regulating the Law of Moses. What this Ps 82 is saying, is that God Almighty Himself is the one who calls these creatures, "gods". Because this is so obviously what Ps 82 teaches, some of you have rejected it as corrupted and invalid scripture. But this scripture is valid and it says what it means because scripture is divinely protect by God from the very corruption you have imagined. Rejecting this text as scripture is not the solution. You have not yet comprehended what this text is saying. God was foreshadowing by way of antitype, the fact that certain men can function among humanity as though they were God himself. Acting on behalf of God as his divinely commissioned agent. This is exactly my role today as I stand before you. I am not God's agent in regards to mere civil law, but in all spiritual things. If the human judges of Ps 82 can be called "gods" because they were appointed agents of God, how much more should the divine Son of God be called this same title "god"? If they wear the title it by privilege, how much more should I, Jesus wear it by nature, as my inherent right!
 

michaelvpardo

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nothead said:
You don't since you think I made an issue over gender. No it was over number, GRAMMATICAL number. HIM is singular, and not plural but you guys gloss this every time. When God is called HIM this HAS to mean one of the three, not all three together which is THEM. US, OUR, THEY.

So then when the HE God speaks you have to determine which HE is HE. I don't. I only have one HE the Father.
This would be true of human beings, but not of an immortal, self existent, eternal invisible God, who has made Himself known through His Son and by His Spirit, all of whom are One God (Echad or a unity of being.)
This is much simpler when you stop trying to bring God down to our level of understanding, but let me try to give you a real world example of division in purpose, but unity in being.
You and I have minds which we understand to function by virtue of our brains. With our minds we think, we reason, we interpret reality based upon our perceptions, and our mind is very much an expression of our physical reality, yet it is exceptionally hard to accurately quantify and if anyone tells you that they have a full understanding of what thought is, they're just lying. Our mind is very much what we are, yet we are more than just that. We are thinking beings, but we are also emotional beings. We commonly accept that emotion is also a function of our brains as well as thought, and we can manipulate emotion physically with chemical stimulus, yet emotion remains difficult to quantify or calculate. Both these aspects of our being are required to make us more than a simple biological machine, but we still fall into the same category as orangutans and parakeets with this limited view of ourselves. We are also spiritual beings. We have a built in sense of mortality and eternity. We fear death, not so much as an animal survival instinct, but because we by nature fear what would come after death, a judgment of the virtue or wickedness of our lives. We connect to other people spiritually in ways that we would never connect to them mentally or emotionally. This is largely what separates us from the animal kingdom, but the point I'm trying to get to is that without one of the components of being a thinking creature, an emotional creature, and a spiritual creature, we cease to be truly human.
The scripture identifies our nature with that of God, in the sense that we were intended to reflect who He is, but miss the mark. We are our thoughts to some extent, and we are our emotions to some extent, and we are also our spirit (perhaps to a greater extent.) We are a tri-unity, three types of being which all remain one in the fullest sense of completion.
The scripture teaches us that God is Spirit, eternal, self existent, pure, holy, incorruptible, and most significantly infinite in degree (or simply non finite), or described as omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent. The eternal is nothing that can be grasped by the finite, but the scripture tells us that the Eternal God chose to interact with His creation, to reveal Himself in scripture through angelic beings, through His Spirit by prophets and kings, and ultimately by His Son who is His exact likeness as represented within His creation. If the infinite is to be represented within the context of the finite He must take on some form and He did this in the person of His Son. The bible teaches this and the Son who is the True and Faithful witness confirms the Father in Himself. My mind can attest to my emotion and my spirit, yet all three remain what I am. The analogy isn't perfect in that we remain finite beings, while in God the infinite took on finite qualities (and appears to have done so forever,) yet the comparison remains valid in the context of our understanding of what ultimately can never be understood by us without the mind of God Himself.
I'm sure of two things: I don't have that mind and neither do you. If either of us did, we wouldn't be trying to convince one another of the obvious. From a mental perspective, its inconceivable to me that God would even bother with us, but from an emotional perspective I can receive the love that He's shown us and in some small and flawed way return it to Him in gratitude, praise, and joy. Where do you get that without seeing Him in His Son, in His suffering and His sacrifice, in His mercy and in His grace? Perhaps you don't see it at all, but I pray that you do and that you may know Him as redeemer, kinsman and friend. Amen
 

Purity

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Michael V Pardo said:
This would be true of human beings, but not of an immortal, self existent, eternal invisible God, who has made Himself known through His Son and by His Spirit, all of whom are One God (Echad or a unity of being.)
This is much simpler when you stop trying to bring God down to our level of understanding, but let me try to give you a real world example of division in purpose, but unity in being.
You and I have minds which we understand to function by virtue of our brains. With our minds we think, we reason, we interpret reality based upon our perceptions, and our mind is very much an expression of our physical reality, yet it is exceptionally hard to accurately quantify and if anyone tells you that they have a full understanding of what thought is, they're just lying. Our mind is very much what we are, yet we are more than just that. We are thinking beings, but we are also emotional beings. We commonly accept that emotion is also a function of our brains as well as thought, and we can manipulate emotion physically with chemical stimulus, yet emotion remains difficult to quantify or calculate. Both these aspects of our being are required to make us more than a simple biological machine, but we still fall into the same category as orangutans and parakeets with this limited view of ourselves. We are also spiritual beings. We have a built in sense of mortality and eternity. We fear death, not so much as an animal survival instinct, but because we by nature fear what would come after death, a judgment of the virtue or wickedness of our lives. We connect to other people spiritually in ways that we would never connect to them mentally or emotionally. This is largely what separates us from the animal kingdom, but the point I'm trying to get to is that without one of the components of being a thinking creature, an emotional creature, and a spiritual creature, we cease to be truly human.
The scripture identifies our nature with that of God, in the sense that we were intended to reflect who He is, but miss the mark. We are our thoughts to some extent, and we are our emotions to some extent, and we are also our spirit (perhaps to a greater extent.) We are a tri-unity, three types of being which all remain one in the fullest sense of completion.
The scripture teaches us that God is Spirit, eternal, self existent, pure, holy, incorruptible, and most significantly infinite in degree (or simply non finite), or described as omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent. The eternal is nothing that can be grasped by the finite, but the scripture tells us that the Eternal God chose to interact with His creation, to reveal Himself in scripture through angelic beings, through His Spirit by prophets and kings, and ultimately by His Son who is His exact likeness as represented within His creation. If the infinite is to be represented within the context of the finite He must take on some form and He did this in the person of His Son. The bible teaches this and the Son who is the True and Faithful witness confirms the Father in Himself. My mind can attest to my emotion and my spirit, yet all three remain what I am. The analogy isn't perfect in that we remain finite beings, while in God the infinite took on finite qualities (and appears to have done so forever,) yet the comparison remains valid in the context of our understanding of what ultimately can never be understood by us without the mind of God Himself.
I'm sure of two things: I don't have that mind and neither do you. If either of us did, we wouldn't be trying to convince one another of the obvious. From a mental perspective, its inconceivable to me that God would even bother with us, but from an emotional perspective I can receive the love that He's shown us and in some small and flawed way return it to Him in gratitude, praise, and joy. Where do you get that without seeing Him in His Son, in His suffering and His sacrifice, in His mercy and in His grace? Perhaps you don't see it at all, but I pray that you do and that you may know Him as redeemer, kinsman and friend. Amen
No Scriptural support = traditions of men.

Everything you speak of concerning God being manifested in and through flesh (Christ) will be equally said of the Saints.

And the glory which thou (Yahweh) gavest me (Jesus) I have given them (Apostles); that they (Apostles) may be one, even as we are one: (John 17:22)

Michael your doctrine is a putrid stench in Gods nostrils and while its tainted with a veneer of sincerity it is vomited up by those who understand truth.

Creeds have blinded your eyes and have fulfilled the very intent of their formation - to bring together pagan beliefs with Christianity.

O did Constantine succeed!

Stop being his disciple and abandon everything those creeds stood for - I mean everything.

Amen
 

Floyd

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Michael V Pardo said:
This would be true of human beings, but not of an immortal, self existent, eternal invisible God, who has made Himself known through His Son and by His Spirit, all of whom are One God (Echad or a unity of being.)
This is much simpler when you stop trying to bring God down to our level of understanding, but let me try to give you a real world example of division in purpose, but unity in being.
You and I have minds which we understand to function by virtue of our brains. With our minds we think, we reason, we interpret reality based upon our perceptions, and our mind is very much an expression of our physical reality, yet it is exceptionally hard to accurately quantify and if anyone tells you that they have a full understanding of what thought is, they're just lying. Our mind is very much what we are, yet we are more than just that. We are thinking beings, but we are also emotional beings. We commonly accept that emotion is also a function of our brains as well as thought, and we can manipulate emotion physically with chemical stimulus, yet emotion remains difficult to quantify or calculate. Both these aspects of our being are required to make us more than a simple biological machine, but we still fall into the same category as orangutans and parakeets with this limited view of ourselves. We are also spiritual beings. We have a built in sense of mortality and eternity. We fear death, not so much as an animal survival instinct, but because we by nature fear what would come after death, a judgment of the virtue or wickedness of our lives. We connect to other people spiritually in ways that we would never connect to them mentally or emotionally. This is largely what separates us from the animal kingdom, but the point I'm trying to get to is that without one of the components of being a thinking creature, an emotional creature, and a spiritual creature, we cease to be truly human.
The scripture identifies our nature with that of God, in the sense that we were intended to reflect who He is, but miss the mark. We are our thoughts to some extent, and we are our emotions to some extent, and we are also our spirit (perhaps to a greater extent.) We are a tri-unity, three types of being which all remain one in the fullest sense of completion.
The scripture teaches us that God is Spirit, eternal, self existent, pure, holy, incorruptible, and most significantly infinite in degree (or simply non finite), or described as omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent. The eternal is nothing that can be grasped by the finite, but the scripture tells us that the Eternal God chose to interact with His creation, to reveal Himself in scripture through angelic beings, through His Spirit by prophets and kings, and ultimately by His Son who is His exact likeness as represented within His creation. If the infinite is to be represented within the context of the finite He must take on some form and He did this in the person of His Son. The bible teaches this and the Son who is the True and Faithful witness confirms the Father in Himself. My mind can attest to my emotion and my spirit, yet all three remain what I am. The analogy isn't perfect in that we remain finite beings, while in God the infinite took on finite qualities (and appears to have done so forever,) yet the comparison remains valid in the context of our understanding of what ultimately can never be understood by us without the mind of God Himself.
I'm sure of two things: I don't have that mind and neither do you. If either of us did, we wouldn't be trying to convince one another of the obvious. From a mental perspective, its inconceivable to me that God would even bother with us, but from an emotional perspective I can receive the love that He's shown us and in some small and flawed way return it to Him in gratitude, praise, and joy. Where do you get that without seeing Him in His Son, in His suffering and His sacrifice, in His mercy and in His grace? Perhaps you don't see it at all, but I pray that you do and that you may know Him as redeemer, kinsman and friend. Amen
Trying to reason with this man is useless Michael!
When we had reached a stage where I asked him to clarify some of his teaching; he refused!
He will only respond when you agree with him.
Sacred Scripture (The Bible) is only for HIS interpretation!

BTW; your considered appeal to him was movingly eloquent.

Below are the clarifications which I sought, and which had him running.


Purity, on 24 May 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:
Purity said:
If only you had 39 books to support your notions but you haven't one.
I only need one; The Bible!

It states clearly that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; which is where your apostasy is!
Watching your weasel words is like reading Gen..and Satan's words to Eve; "surely thou shalt not die"!
Ahh. but of course; you don't believe in Satan do you?
That means he never tempted Eve!
That means in your "theology" God introduced temptation and evil!???
That of course would not hold water! So where now your theology?

You say you "praise God regularly"; that means (if you tell the truth), that you "worship in spirit and in truth ( Jhn.4:23-24), unless the "one" you worship, is one of those that Jesus warned would be evident (false Christ's).
You said in an earlier post that you treat the Holy Spirit in the same way as Christ Jesus; ie deny their Deity!
In that case; you cannot "worship in spirit and in truth"; as "God is Spirit"!???
Floyd.
 

michaelvpardo

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Floyd said:
Trying to reason with this man is useless Michael!
When we had reached a stage where I asked him to clarify some of his teaching; he refused!
He will only respond when you agree with him.
Sacred Scripture (The Bible) is only for HIS interpretation!



Floyd.
Thanks for your supportive comments Floyd,
My attempts in my last post were only intended to make an appeal to the carnal minds of these unregenerate souls. I thought that perhaps if they had any intellect at all they could be moved to examine their false doctrines and the source of them, through an appeal to reason, but in truth the mind which is brought into captivity by satanic deception has gone beyond the ability to reason logically. I've tried such appeals to intellect with my eldest brother prior to his death a few years ago (and prior to his brain tumors which robbed him of a brilliant and astute mind) as well as with colleagues occupied in technical and academic pursuits. The results are typically the same, which is why we have highly educated men in educational systems who will cling to the belief that evolution occurred on some other planet (where there was really sufficient time for it to occur based upon theoretical models) and that life was subsequently "seeded" here on earth. In these men the scripture is demonstrated true which states: " because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools," Romans 1:21-22
I take the time to make argument with hopeless individuals engaged in their folly here, only because they haven't reached the point stated in the latter verse (Romans 1:23) where they have turned aside to worthless idols. They still have a desire, like many Jews and other such self righteous individuals, to "be right with God" even though they don't know Him. Consequently God has not yet given them up to vile and debased passions (as far as I'm aware though I know some men raised in the context of JW families who are pretty debased in their thinking). If God hasn't yet given them up, we still need to present the gospel and pray that He will open the eyes of their spirits and breathe new life into them through faith in our Lord. Remember that in the book of the Revelation of our Lord, the saints will continue to preach the gospel to those who have taken the mark of the beast, though they will remain unrepentant. We aren't accountable for the results of our service in the gospel, only for our faithfulness to preach it, even to deaf ears and dead souls.
I feel genuine pity for those individuals who believe that they are serving God but caught in strong delusion. One of my own sister-in-laws once attended a sound biblically based church and has been turned aside to follow the teachings of some JW cult leader, but her belief was never mixed with faith as evident in her life and lifestyle. There is no peace for the wicked and these do desperately want peace yet are captured by the desire for vain glory and the notion that they can some how contribute to God (as though the clay somehow added something to the potter.) I've known religious people from various "faiths" and back grounds through out my life and have always felt compassion for them. My own situation as a youth, allows me sympathy for those who seek God, but haven't heard or understood the gospel, or been granted grace to receive it. I remember what it was like to want to know Him, but to be unable to have any confidence in dead works, nor have any understanding of scripture reconciled by His Spirit to my own. I suffered many things in my 39 years of wandering in the "wilderness" of this world and had to be brought to a place where I saw myself as without hope, condemned by my sin to an eternity of separation from my God. But He was faithful. He sought me when I was unable to seek Him and found me when my heart had been prepared by my struggles and my defeats, my injuries and my sorrows. He gave me hope in the darkness and unveiled my eyes to the way of righteousness, then washed my feet with His word and set me upon the path of redemption. How painful the knowledge of our sin. How joyful the knowledge of His grace. What love He has shown us in His humility and what love He grants us return in His glorification.
Its hurtful to share His love with those who despise us for our knowledge of Him, but this is out of jealousy guarded by pride. Love can conquer such sin and prayer can deliver from such corruption, but we need to refuse to allow our rejection to turn to bitterness and we must allow ourselves to be crucified together with Him who died for us.
The trouble with living sacrifices is that it remains in our nature to want to crawl off of the altar, so bear with me as I endeavor to learn to suffer fools for His sake and for their own eternal souls. God bless you and strengthen you. I've seen significant spiritual attack in the last week or two from every front, even those closest to me, and this is often the case with us when near to fulfilling the goals of our Christ, so take heed to your soul and give no place to our adversary the devil. Be strong and of good courage, and by all means stand in His grace and in His strength, firmly rooted in the word and armed with the gospel. Our Lord reigns. Amen and amen.
 

Purity

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: " because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools," Romans 1:21-22
I take the time to make argument with hopeless individuals engaged in their folly here, only because they haven't reached the point stated in the latter verse (Romans 1:23) where they have turned aside to worthless idols.
We have another Christian who would take the Word of God and twist it to their own purpose.

This is where the majority of Christendom is today - they have reached verse 23.

"And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God"

Not literally achieved, for none can affect the actual glory of God. The word "changed" should be "exchanged." In their hearts they exchanged the glory of immortality for images of flesh and corruption, and consequently reaped what they sowed: eternity in the grave! God created mankind that it might reflect to His glory, and honour His power (Gen 1:27), but Adam fell from that high estate. Nevertheless, the opportunity for redemption was extended on the basis of personal sacrifice (Gen 3:15), but men have repeatedly refused such standards (Gen 6:11-12) and turned their backs upon the glory of God as revealed in His Word, seeking gratification in things wicked and ungodly. They forsook Him of whom they had knowledge (Rom 1:28) and offered to images the homage which was due to Him.

Notice the decline in worship from man (who was originally portrayed as "upright": Ecc 7:29), to birds (which soar in the heavens), to beasts (which dwell on earth), finally to reptiles (which grovel in dust). Although in the beginning mankind was taught the truth concerning the uncorruptible God, subsequent ages depict them as becoming fools in their vain imaginations, until they likened God to themselves and to other areas of the created world - all of which were worshipped in a steadily declining form of religion.

Today, men have degenerated further, for, discarding even the false worship of animals and idols, they worship the flesh in all its lustful manifestations (Rom 1:24). Paul described the bestial attitude of false brethren in similar terms: "Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things" (Php 3:19). The worship of self had replaced the privileged position that was due only to God. Such vileness seen in the days of Noah (Gen 6:5) will be seen in the last days within Christianity itself. It will be repeated (and, perhaps, exceeded) by this present generation (Luk 17:26)!

The epicentre of Christian religion today is the Roman Catholic Church (Mother of all) which is found to be guilty of the golden calf and other such astrocyte's. Its doctrines, some of which Michael you share, are an abomination to the One true God and Jesus Christ His Son.

Therefore, the warning of Rom 1:21-23 ought to be spoken to oneself, to see if there be any ungodliness or falsehood within. A knowledge inherited from age to age passed down by the theologian to such an innocent as yourself who knew not Rom 1:25, which has already occurred in many creeds and councils of men.

Read, prayer and knock (harder)

P.
 

Floyd

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Michael V Pardo said:
Thanks for your supportive comments Floyd,
My attempts in my last post were only intended to make an appeal to the carnal minds of these unregenerate souls. I thought that perhaps if they had any intellect at all they could be moved to examine their false doctrines and the source of them, through an appeal to reason, but in truth the mind which is brought into captivity by satanic deception has gone beyond the ability to reason logically. I've tried such appeals to intellect with my eldest brother prior to his death a few years ago (and prior to his brain tumors which robbed him of a brilliant and astute mind) as well as with colleagues occupied in technical and academic pursuits. The results are typically the same, which is why we have highly educated men in educational systems who will cling to the belief that evolution occurred on some other planet (where there was really sufficient time for it to occur based upon theoretical models) and that life was subsequently "seeded" here on earth. In these men the scripture is demonstrated true which states: " because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools," Romans 1:21-22
I take the time to make argument with hopeless individuals engaged in their folly here, only because they haven't reached the point stated in the latter verse (Romans 1:23) where they have turned aside to worthless idols. They still have a desire, like many Jews and other such self righteous individuals, to "be right with God" even though they don't know Him. Consequently God has not yet given them up to vile and debased passions (as far as I'm aware though I know some men raised in the context of JW families who are pretty debased in their thinking). If God hasn't yet given them up, we still need to present the gospel and pray that He will open the eyes of their spirits and breathe new life into them through faith in our Lord. Remember that in the book of the Revelation of our Lord, the saints will continue to preach the gospel to those who have taken the mark of the beast, though they will remain unrepentant. We aren't accountable for the results of our service in the gospel, only for our faithfulness to preach it, even to deaf ears and dead souls.
I feel genuine pity for those individuals who believe that they are serving God but caught in strong delusion. One of my own sister-in-laws once attended a sound biblically based church and has been turned aside to follow the teachings of some JW cult leader, but her belief was never mixed with faith as evident in her life and lifestyle. There is no peace for the wicked and these do desperately want peace yet are captured by the desire for vain glory and the notion that they can some how contribute to God (as though the clay somehow added something to the potter.) I've known religious people from various "faiths" and back grounds through out my life and have always felt compassion for them. My own situation as a youth, allows me sympathy for those who seek God, but haven't heard or understood the gospel, or been granted grace to receive it. I remember what it was like to want to know Him, but to be unable to have any confidence in dead works, nor have any understanding of scripture reconciled by His Spirit to my own. I suffered many things in my 39 years of wandering in the "wilderness" of this world and had to be brought to a place where I saw myself as without hope, condemned by my sin to an eternity of separation from my God. But He was faithful. He sought me when I was unable to seek Him and found me when my heart had been prepared by my struggles and my defeats, my injuries and my sorrows. He gave me hope in the darkness and unveiled my eyes to the way of righteousness, then washed my feet with His word and set me upon the path of redemption. How painful the knowledge of our sin. How joyful the knowledge of His grace. What love He has shown us in His humility and what love He grants us return in His glorification.
Its hurtful to share His love with those who despise us for our knowledge of Him, but this is out of jealousy guarded by pride. Love can conquer such sin and prayer can deliver from such corruption, but we need to refuse to allow our rejection to turn to bitterness and we must allow ourselves to be crucified together with Him who died for us.
The trouble with living sacrifices is that it remains in our nature to want to crawl off of the altar, so bear with me as I endeavor to learn to suffer fools for His sake and for their own eternal souls. God bless you and strengthen you. I've seen significant spiritual attack in the last week or two from every front, even those closest to me, and this is often the case with us when near to fulfilling the goals of our Christ, so take heed to your soul and give no place to our adversary the devil. Be strong and of good courage, and by all means stand in His grace and in His strength, firmly rooted in the word and armed with the gospel. Our Lord reigns. Amen and amen.
Michael; thank you for your heartfelt comments, you are indeed a worthy warrior!
I pray the Lord strengthen you in your endeavour for Him with the lost of the world.
I will think and pray on your situation!
Floyd.
 

shturt678

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Thank you folks for caring, and it's time to bring our Godman Lord Jesus Christ's view of the "narrow gate," ie, genuine contrition, faith, and a Christian life are like a narrow protal and passage.

Old Jack that didn't know it was that narrow daily.
 

Purity

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There is a sniggering doubt here that the inherited creed doctrine could well be false and if so what are the consequences? What if when you meet with Christ and he is not the God-man you purport.

Will you be teachable in that day? if you have not been teachable this day?

P.
 

Floyd

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Feb 28, 2014
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Purity said:
There is a sniggering doubt here that the inherited creed doctrine could well be false and if so what are the consequences? What if when you meet with Christ and he is not the God-man you purport.

Will you be teachable in that day? if you have not been teachable this day?

P.
What about your meeting with the Lord; although, if you are not His you won't meet!
The first you will know is the "Great White Throne " of Rev.20!
Floyd.
 

shturt678

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Purity said:
There is a sniggering doubt here that the inherited creed doctrine could well be false and if so what are the consequences? What if when you meet with Christ and he is not the God-man you purport.

Will you be teachable in that day? if you have not been teachable this day?

P.
Thank you for caring!

If Jesus wasn't God also at the ol' rugged Cross being a bloody sacrifice for all the sins of the world then I've had it, and can plan on spending forever in the lake of fire.

Old Jack
 

michaelvpardo

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Purity said:
We have another Christian who would take the Word of God and twist it to their own purpose.

This is where the majority of Christendom is today - they have reached verse 23.

"And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God"

Not literally achieved, for none can affect the actual glory of God. The word "changed" should be "exchanged." In their hearts they exchanged the glory of immortality for images of flesh and corruption, and consequently reaped what they sowed: eternity in the grave! God created mankind that it might reflect to His glory, and honour His power (Gen 1:27), but Adam fell from that high estate. Nevertheless, the opportunity for redemption was extended on the basis of personal sacrifice (Gen 3:15), but men have repeatedly refused such standards (Gen 6:11-12) and turned their backs upon the glory of God as revealed in His Word, seeking gratification in things wicked and ungodly. They forsook Him of whom they had knowledge (Rom 1:28) and offered to images the homage which was due to Him.

Notice the decline in worship from man (who was originally portrayed as "upright": Ecc 7:29), to birds (which soar in the heavens), to beasts (which dwell on earth), finally to reptiles (which grovel in dust). Although in the beginning mankind was taught the truth concerning the uncorruptible God, subsequent ages depict them as becoming fools in their vain imaginations, until they likened God to themselves and to other areas of the created world - all of which were worshipped in a steadily declining form of religion.

Today, men have degenerated further, for, discarding even the false worship of animals and idols, they worship the flesh in all its lustful manifestations (Rom 1:24). Paul described the bestial attitude of false brethren in similar terms: "Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things" (Php 3:19). The worship of self had replaced the privileged position that was due only to God. Such vileness seen in the days of Noah (Gen 6:5) will be seen in the last days within Christianity itself. It will be repeated (and, perhaps, exceeded) by this present generation (Luk 17:26)!

The epicentre of Christian religion today is the Roman Catholic Church (Mother of all) which is found to be guilty of the golden calf and other such astrocyte's. Its doctrines, some of which Michael you share, are an abomination to the One true God and Jesus Christ His Son.

Therefore, the warning of Rom 1:21-23 ought to be spoken to oneself, to see if there be any ungodliness or falsehood within. A knowledge inherited from age to age passed down by the theologian to such an innocent as yourself who knew not Rom 1:25, which has already occurred in many creeds and councils of men.

Read, prayer and knock (harder)

P.
I've never been innocent, far from it. What I am is forgiven, redeemed by the blood of my Savior, and born again of His Spirit.
The error of Roman Catholicism is obvious to all that have left it in favor of biblical churches, but that doesn't make it the epicenter of anything.
I think the whore that calls itself free-masonry is far more insidious than any one church, as it breeds false religion all around the world, teaching forms of self righteousness and "systems of religion" whose only significance is held to be in their symbolism and its relationship to the "original" religion and their prophecy of a utopian world order of masonic brotherhood. They've polluted churches, seminaries, and colleges with their doctrines for centuries and given birth to nearly every bible based cult of at least the last two, as well as more than a few "altruistic" clubs and organizations that wield some degree of political influence through their membership.
The RC church may very well be likened to Ephraim, also called the firstborn of God in one biblical text, but the promised end for Ephraim is restoration and blessing so I trust that the Lord will redeem that church as well when their doctrine returns to the purity of the gospel and casts aside idolatrous practices. Judgment begins in the house of God and who is so faithful that they'll never be tried by fire?
 

Purity

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I like this don't you think?

Today, men have degenerated further, for, discarding even the false worship of animals and idols, they worship the flesh in all its lustful manifestations (Rom 1:24). Paul described the bestial attitude of false brethren in similar terms: "Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things" (Php 3:19). The worship of self had replaced the privileged position that was due only to God. Such vileness seen in the days of Noah (Gen 6:5) will be seen in the last days within Christianity itself. It will be repeated (and, perhaps, exceeded) by this present generation (Luk 17:26)!
We certainly live in such times as these...the broad way which leads to the eternal death.

Personal note to Michael, what I find more troubling than your (and others) post here is the blatant rejection of Christendom being in apostate conditions today.

That staggers me more that you would not think Christianity has strayed so far from the original Gospel.

Purity.
 

michaelvpardo

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Floyd said:
Michael; thank you for your heartfelt comments, you are indeed a worthy warrior!
I pray the Lord strengthen you in your endeavour for Him with the lost of the world.
I will think and pray on your situation!
Floyd.
Thanks again. I don't believe that I'm worthy of anything but condemnation, but I've placed my trust in our Lord and in His grace. That's enough for me. No hoops to jump through, no stairs to climb, just the blood of Jesus and the promises of His word.
Worship service was awesome this last Sunday (in the true sense of the word) and just gets better every week. I can see changes in the congregation, faith giving rise to spiritual fruit, its a lovely thing to be a witness to.
I hope that the experience is a common one, but it isn't what I hear coming from radio ministries which seem to be all doom and gloom about the church. We are in a war, but the outcome is already determined and the victory is Christ's. We can't really add anything to it, but standing in the truth and watching Him accomplish the victory is more than enough. I suppose that most of the doom and gloom is with respect to the state of the USA and the church in "the west" in general, but the countries that we live in are just temporary residences and the sooner that people understand that, the more that they will appreciate the kingdom that is to come and be ready to rejoice in His appearing. Amen.
nothead said:
Mah mah, brotha you come up wid dah weerdust thangs. God doesn't have a name. Em, so this unamed God of yours is edifying to WHOM or WHOMISH?

Please read Exodus 3 again. Moses tells God whom shall he say to the people his name is and his answer: "I called myself "El Shaddai" to Abraham but now I am giving YOU my definitive name forever, a memorial for all generations...YHWH (he will be, third person) and this means I WILL BE WHAT/WHOM I WILL BE. Tell them THE BEING sent me to you.

Sunday School for Stanley in the Park. Stanley was held back in school. Now he goes to the Park.

And HEN ain't exactly HEIS since it is the neuter version of the same word. Please learn a smidgen of Greek before you tell NOTHEAD what a word means. Don't you know I wrote a PRIMER called "Nothead's Koine for Beginners?"
People have names, God was never created and never born. No one ever gave Him a name, but He has given us names by which He may be called upon. Yahavah is a covenant name, but He has other names, some which are known only by Him. Do you really think that someone gave birth to God or created Him, so that He might be named? The very idea is absurd. If God could have been named, then He wouldn't be God. The fact that He has given us the name of His Son to call upon is an act of His grace and a revelation of who He is, our savior, God and King, Yahshua (or Jesus if you prefer the Greek version). Your translation from the Hebrew is interesting, but unless you're 3000 years old I'd have to say that it remains wishful thinking. Most modern Jewish scholars don't even consider the Septuagint entirely accurate, and the Tanaach wasn't written in Greek or in modern Hebrew. The language was out of practical usage for hundreds of years, but of course there are scholars who believe that they can accurately translate from the original text. That's called hubris.