What is the narrow gate?

[bbyrd009]

priceless lol, ty

which by that i meant you are hilarious, wadr
i mean, the irony of someone who obv has not been crucified, Quoting that post
lol

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Lol. Why would anyone bring this old thread back to life? I read the first two pages from like…8 years ago, but couldn’t take any more, so I skipped to the last two. No improvement In the way people talk to each other.

There is something I’ve been thinking about though, off and on for years, that I recalled again.
If you entered the narrow gate to life, would you be one of those who had to eat from the tree of life on either side of the river every month? Do you know the passage I’m talking about? Or is the tree for those who never entered the narrow gate? Who exactly will need to eat the leaves for healing and who eats the fruit every month?

 

[Earburner]

Lol. Why would anyone bring this old thread back to life? I read the first two pages from like…8 years ago, but couldn’t take any more, so I skipped to the last two. No improvement In the way people talk to each other.

There is something I’ve been thinking about though, off and on for years, that I recalled again.
If you entered the narrow gate to life, would you be one of those who had to eat from the tree of life on either side of the river every month? Do you know the passage I’m talking about? Or is the tree for those who never entered the narrow gate? Who exactly will need to eat the leaves for healing and who eats the fruit every month?

You raise a good question whereby "church-ianity" has no realistic answer.

According to the Amillennial view, it's to be spiritually understood.
1. The Tree of Life is Jesus.
2. The 12 manner of "fruit" is the character of the Holy Spirit.
3. Born again Christians, ever since Pentacost, are the "leaves" of the ToL, for the healing of the nations, which is the healing between God the Father and all who repent (metanoeo) towards Him through faith in Jesus, by their preaching of the Gospel, who also is Christ, the "good news" to us from the Father.
Edit:
Mat. 23
[39] For I say unto you [Jews], Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

[Earburner]

which by that i meant you are hilarious, wadr
i mean, the irony of someone who obv has not been crucified, Quoting that post
lol

Apparently, you also don't understand Gal. 2:20 and Rom. 12:1.
Maybe this will help: Col. 2:12, Col. 3:1

 

[bbyrd009]

Apparently, you also don't understand Gal. 2:20 and Rom. 12:1.
Maybe this will help: Col. 2:12, Col. 3:1

ok ill take a look at that tks

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe the narrow gate is more narrow than Christians like to believe.
They say it is about other religions compared to Jesus (being the narrow way), but it is not.
It’s more narrow than that.
The Bible actually tells us how narrow it is in Luke 13:22-28.
The narrow way is within the sphere of Christianity or Christ’s followers.

Only Christians are categorized as being of the following:

#1. Lord, Lord, open unto us; (Luke 13:25).
#2. Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets (Luke 13:26).

Meaning, most Christians are not going to make it into the Kingdom.
Only a few will find the narrow way or path.
I believe the narrow path is not justifying any level of sin because Jesus said depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity (Luke 13:27).
For without holiness, no man shall see the LORD (Hebrews 12:14).
Most Christians today I talk with speak the exact opposite of what Scripture says in regards to the many warnings given to us believers.
Think. At one point a great many of Jesus’ disciples stopped following Jesus (John 6:66).
The same is happening today. They want a Savior, but not a Savior from their sins (in a practical sense).

 

[Earburner]

I believe the narrow gate is more narrow than Christians like to believe.
They say it is about other religions compared to Jesus (being the narrow way), but it is not.
It’s more narrow than that.
The Bible actually tells us how narrow it is in Luke 13:22-28.
The narrow way is within the sphere of Christianity or Christ’s followers.

Only Christians are categorized as being of the following:

#1. Lord, Lord, open unto us; (Luke 13:25).
#2. Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets (Luke 13:26).

Meaning, most Christians are not going to make it into the Kingdom.
Only a few will find the narrow way or path.
I believe the narrow path is not justifying any level of sin because Jesus said depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity (Luke 13:27).
For without holiness, no man shall see the LORD (Hebrews 12:14).
Most Christians today I talk with speak the exact opposite of what Scripture says in regards to the many warnings given to us believers.
Think. At one point a great many of Jesus’ disciples stopped following Jesus (John 6:66).
The same is happening today. They want a Savior, but not a Savior from their sins (in a practical sense).

It appears that you are still feeding the dragon.
Sin brought death, which is nothing more than the judgmental result of being
alive in the flesh, but void of the Spirit of Christ, aka the Tree of Life. KJV Gen. 3:22-24, Rom. 8:8-9.
We all are born in this flesh, being separated from the Tree of Life (Jesus), which is the only provision by God for the Gift of eternal life.

Therefore, our human form of righteousness, through law keeping (atempting to be sin-free), is not and never will be equal to or better than the Righteousness of God, which is Gifted and deposited into the believer, who trusts in Christ by faith. Rev. 3:20.

When we each invite and receive the "Spirit of Christ" to dwell within us, the Righteousness of God comes with Him, which is the Gift of eternal life. 1 John 5:12-13.
The righteousness of/by the Law, is not the Righteousness of God, who is Jesus.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It appears that you are still feeding the dragon.
Sin brought death, which is nothing more than the judgmental result of being
alive in the flesh, but void of the Spirit of Christ, aka the Tree of Life. KJV Gen. 3:22-24, Rom. 8:8-9.
We all are born in this flesh, being separated from the Tree of Life (Jesus), which is the only provision by God for the Gift of eternal life.

Therefore, our human form of righteousness, through law keeping (atempting to be sin-free), is not and never will be equal to or better than the Righteousness of God, which is Gifted and deposited into the believer, who trusts in Christ by faith. Rev. 3:20.

When we each invite and receive the "Spirit of Christ" to dwell within us, the Righteousness of God comes with Him, which is the Gift of eternal life. 1 John 5:12-13.
The righteousness of/by the Law, is not the Righteousness of God, who is Jesus.

When Paul spoke negatively of the Law and works in generic way he was referring to the 613 Laws of Moses that we are not under. In most cases, this is proven to be so if you were to read the context. Paul also was speaking many times about how to GET saved or how we are initially saved by God’s grace (Which is a process of salvation without works).

Many in Christianity today ignore the Secondary Aspect of Salvation in Scripture.

Read 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14. It says God has chosen you to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth. Sanctification of the Spirit to live a holy life is a part of our salvation. This can be shown also by looking at Galatians 6:8-9, Romans 8:13. Even the apostle Paul said you do not provide for your own, you have denied the faith and are worse than an infidel (unbeliever) (1 Timothy 5:8). Only a believer can be worse than an unbeliever. So a believer has to do the good work of providing for their own. If not, they are not going to enter the Kingdom of God. So things are not as you say. Also, how do you explain away the narrow way mentioned by Jesus in Luke 13:22-28. You have not actually given a rational explanation of how that passage fits your belief. Jesus was referring to believers and He told believers to depart from Him because they were workers of iniquity (sin).

 

[Earburner]

I a

When Paul spoke negatively of the Law and works in generic way he was referring to the 613 Laws of Moses that we are not under. In most cases, this is proven to be so if you were to read the context. Paul also was speaking many times about how to GET saved or how we are initially saved by God’s grace (Which is a process of salvation without works).

Many in Christianity today ignore the Secondary Aspect of Salvation in Scripture.

Read 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14. It says God has chosen you to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth. Sanctification of the Spirit to live a holy life is a part of our salvation. This can be shown also by looking at Galatians 6:8-9, Romans 8:13. Even the apostle Paul said you do not provide for your own, you have denied the faith and are worse than an infidel (unbeliever) (1 Timothy 5:8). Only a believer can be worse than an unbeliever. So a believer has to do the good work of providing for their own. If not, they are not going to enter the Kingdom of God. So things are not as you say. Also, how do you explain away the narrow way mentioned by Jesus in Luke 13:22-28. You have not actually given a rational explanation of how that passage fits your belief. Jesus was referring to believers and He told believers to depart from Him because they were workers of iniquity (sin).

I'm going to keep this simple, by revealing it through "the mind* of Christ", because the "rational", logical mind and thoughts of our "natural man", is not at all able to comprehend it. In fact, the "rational" mind conjures up hours of conjecture/supposition, being all to willing to write pages and books of argumental explanations.

2 Cor. 5
[15] And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
[16] Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
[17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, *he is a new creature [creation]: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I a

I'm going to keep this simple, by revealing it through "the mind* of Christ", because the "rational", logical mind and thoughts of our "natural man", is not at all able to comprehend it. In fact, the "rational" mind conjures up hours of conjecture/supposition, being all to willing to write pages and books of argumental explanations.

2 Cor. 5
[15] And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
[16] Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
[17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, *he is a new creature [creation]: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The Bible teaches that we must FIRST have faith or a belief in Jesus as our Savior and or in the gospel message in that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen the third day (for our salvation) to be INITIALLY SAVED (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). We also will call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and seek forgiveness with Him (Romans 10:9) (Romans 10:13). This is a process of salvation without works. Yes, believers are changed in the new birth. But that is only if they don’t have a mindset to sin. You also have to understand that AFTER we are saved by God’s grace… as a part of being a new creature in Christ, we are told by the apostle Paul:

#1. Present your bodies as a living sacrifice unto God (Which is our reasonable service).
#2. Be not conformed to this world.
#3. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind (So that you may prove what is the good, acceptable, and perfect will of God is).​

For Romans 12:1-2 says:
1 “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”

Why do you have to be concerned with becoming a new creature if it is what you said before when you said, I quote:

”Therefore, our human form of righteousness, through law keeping (atempting to be sin-free), is not and never will be equal to or better than the Righteousness of God, which is Gifted and deposited into the believer, who trusts in Christ by faith. Rev. 3:20.”
~ Quote by: Earburner.​

You do realize that Revelation 3 also condemns a church because the Lord did not find their works perfect before God. They had a name that they were alive but they were dead (See: Revelation 3:1-3). In James, he talks about how works makes our faith perfect (James 2:22). James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17). James says we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). Of course James is talking to faith lived out and not how we first get saved (i.e. Initial Salvation). Even the Lord Jesus Christ said we are to abide in Him and produce fruit. If we don’t produce fruit (By abiding in Him), we will be cut down like a branch and thrown into the fire (John 15:1-6). John the Baptist said a similar thing. He said the ax is laid to the root of the tree and cast into the fire (that does not bring forth good fruit), and he said bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (See: Matthew 3:8, and Matthew 3:10). John gives us actual examples of what we are to do (If you read the context). So while we are first saved by a Belief Alone that is not how the faith remains. Believers must enter the Sanctification Process as a part of salvation (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Galatians 6:8-9, Romans 8:13).

Also, again, you are not dealing with the text in Luke 13:22-28.

 

[Earburner]

The Bible teaches that we must FIRST have faith or a belief in Jesus as our Savior and or in the gospel message in that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen the third day (for our salvation) to be INITIALLY SAVED (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). We also will call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and seek forgiveness with Him (Romans 10:9) (Romans 10:13). This is a process of salvation without works. Yes, believers are changed in the new birth. But that is only if they don’t have a mindset to sin. You also have to understand that AFTER we are saved by God’s grace… as a part of being a new creature in Christ, we are told by the apostle Paul:

#1. Present your bodies as a living sacrifice unto God (Which is our reasonable service).​

#2. Be not conformed to this world.​

#3. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind (So that you may prove what is the good, acceptable, and perfect will of God is).​

For Romans 12:1-2 says:
1 “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”

Why do you have to be concerned with becoming a new creature if it is what you said before when you said, I quote:

”Therefore, our human form of righteousness, through law keeping (atempting to be sin-free), is not and never will be equal to or better than the Righteousness of God, which is Gifted and deposited into the believer, who trusts in Christ by faith. Rev. 3:20.”​

~ Quote by: Earburner.​

You do realize that Revelation 3 also condemns a church because the Lord did not find their works perfect before God. They had a name that they were alive but they were dead (See: Revelation 3:1-3). In James, he talks about how works makes our faith perfect (James 2:22). James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17). James says we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). Of course James is talking to faith lived out and not how we first get saved (i.e. Initial Salvation). Even the Lord Jesus Christ said we are to abide in Him and produce fruit. If we don’t produce fruit (By abiding in Him), we will be cut down like a branch and thrown into the fire (John 15:1-6). John the Baptist said a similar thing. He said the ax is laid to the root of the tree and cast into the fire (that does not bring forth good fruit), and he said bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (See: Matthew 3:8, and Matthew 3:10). John gives us actual examples of what we are to do (If you read the context). So while we are first saved by a Belief Alone that is not how the faith remains. Believers must enter the Sanctification Process as a part of salvation (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Galatians 6:8-9, Romans 8:13).

Also, again, you are not dealing with the text in Luke 13:22-28.

You might want to compare the three scriptures below.
Luke 13
[27] But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
John 3
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, BECAUSE he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Rom. 8
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Now, how does one escape from being a worker of iniquity, and the judgment of being condemned already?
The answer is found in the first sentence of Rom. 8:9

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You might want to compare the three scriptures below.
Luke 13
[27] But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
John 3
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, BECAUSE he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Rom. 8
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Now, how does one escape from being a worker of iniquity, and the judgment of being condemned already?
The answer is found in the first sentence of Rom. 8:9

Acts 5:32
“And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.”

A believer can grieve the Holy Spirit.

For Paul writes to the Ephesian believers and tells them:

”And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.” (Ephesians 4:30).

Isaiah 63:10 (NKJV)
”But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; So He turned Himself against them as an enemy, And He fought against them”

So one can grieve the Holy Spirit to a point of rebelling against Him whereby He can turn against them in being their enemy.

Also, when Jesus says, I know you not. How do we know Jesus according to the Bible?

1 John 2:3-4
3 “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”

Jesus said just looking upon a woman in lust can cause one to be cast bodily into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30).
This does not sound like just believe in the finished work of the cross alone (Which is a saying from Popular Christianity) that you are appearing to defend here.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Again, the narrow way is living holy and not justifying sin.
Jesus said depart from me ye workers of iniquity.

#1. Lord, Lord, open unto us; (Luke 13:25).
#2. Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets (Luke 13:26).

This means BELIEVERS justified sin.
Read again Luke 13:22-28.

So if a person says that salvation is only believing in the finished work of the cross alone, then it is not in anything you do, then one can turn God’s grace into a license for immorality (of which Jude 1:4 warns us about).
God does not force change you to be a certain way your whole life.

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).​

​

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).​

​

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

So while we are changed by the new birth, God does not force you to be a certain way our whole lives because of a one time decision we made for Jesus Christ in Him being our Savior.

 

[Earburner]

For all that you have stitched together in the above by your "rational" mind, you are not discerning the difference between those who are made sin-less by God, as opposed to those who attempt to be sin-free before God.
So, in regards to those who are found to be "workers of iniquity", it is evident that they were not made sin-less by God, though in themselves they "worked" ever so carefully to be sin-free.
Therefore, It's not any wonder that the latter will be shocked beyond their imagination, that they "came up short", and will not be redeemed.
Heb. 4
[1] Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

Mat. 5
[48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Luke 6
[40] The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect [present tense] shall be as his master.

It's not about the state of doing "a form of godliness" to become perfect,
but rather it's a state of being, whereby one is made perfect by the indwelling Righteouness of God.

In Luke 10:38-42 according to Jesus, what was the difference between Martha and Mary? Ans. Verse 41-42.

 

[RR144]

When Charles Russell started his kingdom in the 1800's he assured his followers they were the exclusive 144,000 special chosen in Revelation

You are mistaken, Russell NEVER claimed his followers "were the exclusive 144,000 special chosen in Revelation." The burden of proof is on you. With your vast library of "all the JW "books'' some as far back as the 1800's and early 1900's" show us a quote, a reference even.

When it grew to 144,001 members Charley had to change the story in order for his kingdom to grow even larger

The Bible Students in Russell's day NEVER reached 100,000.

So he told his followers anyone not of the "144,000 heavenly bound" would form a kingdom here on earth

Nope, wrong again! First of all, Russell never taught that ONLY 144,000 go to heaven. If you truly did have all those books, you would know that he also believed the Great Company mentioned in Revelation 7 will also go to heaven. He believed everyone OUTSIDE of the True Church, whose members are known ONLY to the Heavenly Father, would live on earth.

It was 19 years AFTER his death that the Society he founded closed the door to heaven, and claimed the Great Company is an earthly class and that all those who join them would escape Armageddon. That was not a Russell teaching.

 

[RR144]

... the kingdom established in heaven-1914) ...

Hmmm ... so the Kingdom is established in heaven in 1914? What has Christ been doing since 1914? For that matter what have the bulk of the 144,000 who are in heaven been doing? Can you scripturally explain this, please?

The 2nd ride of the white horse we find Jesus leading Gods armies to the earth at Harmageddon--fully establishing Gods kingdom control over all of creation--forever.

When was His second ride? For that matter, when was His first ride?

 

[RR144]

Muslims say Jesus was just a prophet and teacher , they say there is only one God , they say God has no son , they pray 5 times a day and live by religious rules. Sounds a lot like Russel doctrine except they use the name Allah instead of Jehovah.

Where does Russell claim Jesus was just a prophet, or that He didn't have a son? Where does Russell state that we are to pray 5 times a day? While Russell on occasion used the name Jehovah, he wasn't one of Jehovah's Witnesses, nor are their beliefs, his beliefs.

And just like Mohammed was considered a new prophet in AD 600 , so was Russell in the 1800's

Russell NEVER claimed to be a prophet. The burden of proof is once again on you.

Russellites have kingdom headquarters in Brooklyn , Islam has Mecca

There is no Russellite Kingdom in Brooklyn. Do your research!

Plenty of similarities

I think not!