What is the narrow gate?

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Floyd

Active Member
Feb 28, 2014
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logabe said:
Yes... because most Christians don't understand that Jacob wasn't born an Israelite, but became
an Israelite after wrestling with God. It wasn't about his genetics, but it was about his maturity.

It is the same with all true Israelites, we must learn to obey the Spirit in order to become the true
Israelite that God is looking for. Jesus said, I have only come for lost sheep of the house of Israel.
In other words, he was looking for mature Sons of God that were in the process of wrestling with
God.

He is still looking for the same thing today. We must ask ourselves, are we serious about putting on
the Mind of Christ? Are we serious about putting on the divine nature? Are we serious about bearing
the fruits of the Spirit?

All of these things represent the narrow way. Are we ready for God to pick us out of the multitudes
to be used to bring His creation back into harmony? If not... we still have time to master the narrow
way, or we will have to remain in death for at least another Age.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe
With respect logabe; I cannot agree with you!
Jacob was in the line of The Promises made to the Patriarchs; and he submitted to God; which gave him the "beginning of wisdom".

However; that and he have nothing to do with the current age; which is of Grace; by dint of our Lord's sacrifice at Calvary; and for the Gentiles and Jews, who became the prime object of Almighty God at Acts28:25-28; who are to make up the "Body of Christ Jesus"; as Paul described.

The detail can be seen in brief here :


[SIZE=14pt]Jacob's Troublehttp://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Jacobs Trouble.htm[/SIZE]



[SIZE=14pt] What does the above phrase mean? It is mentioned frequently in discussions on the subject of prophecy; especially in relation to “latter days”, or as some call them “end times”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Jacob was one of the sons of Isaac, who was the son of Abraham and Sarah; and Isaac was a son of “promise” to them, as they were very old (approx. 100 years old) when he was born; Gen. 17.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Jacob was a very hard working, diligent, and also cunning man; who was tricked by his uncle Laban into working for much longer than he need have done for the hand in marriage of his daughter Rachel. Jacob, having already worked 7 years, was then tricked into accepting Leah as his wife! He agreed to work 7 more years for Rachel; Gen. 29.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Although this may seem hard in modern eyes, Jacob, with the leadership and collusion of his mother, had “stolen” the “birth- right” of the older son from his father Isaac; Gen. 27. In that context, the extra 7 years of servitude seem quite light.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]However, Jacob had shown by his own freewill, that he revered God, and had paid Him homage on his journey to Laban’s household; Gen. 28.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]A very important event happened to Jacob just prior to his departure from Laben after 21 years of service. He had already gathered from Laben a very large number of his flocks; Gen. 30, which made him a wealthy man. He encountered God in a physical event; his name was changed from Jacob to Israel (Prince with God), and the Promises made to Abraham and Isaac were endowed for continuation in him; and his offspring; Gen. 32:28; 35:10. This whole event was to bring Jacob into submission to God/Jehovah; and to make him realise his need to rely on God for all things![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Out of these early beginnings, Jacob had 12 sons, who became the first of the 12 tribes of Israel. After Jacob/Israel had been drawn to Egypt by Joseph during the famine of that time, the Israelites grew in numbers over the following 400 years; and because of the jealousy of the later generations of Egyptians , they became slaves to them; , until the actions of God though Moses.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]In the following years after the Exodus from Egypt, they eventually entered the “promised land”, and eventually had their own Kings. They were however repeatedly unfaithful to their Jehovah (God in Covenant relationship with Israel); and because of that infidelity they were taken in captivity to Babylon and Assyria.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Under Nehemiah and Ezra they were re-established in Jerusalem and environs, and continued for the next few hundred years to exist under various rulers. By the time of the Romans they were looking strongly for their Messiah to relieve them of the Roman yoke! [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]In this environment of anticipation the Jews were very restless, and tried to adopt a number of men who were active and resistant against the Roman occupation as “Messiahs”, to no avail, ending in the deaths of those men.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]During this period and prior to the 1st Advent of Jesus, the dominant Jewish group (the Pharisees), had been searching their scriptures for evidence of the Messiah’s credentials, which they determined would be of human origin, not Divine! This was because for hundreds of years, the original scriptures given to Moses had been altered to eliminate Divine origin! Also; the Pharisees had formulated their own rules and scriptures, which gave them royal powers, which previously had been the prerogative of kingship! These powers were the final arbiter between the Pharisees and all ordinary Jews; and there was no appeal, which meant banishment from all but the lowest levels of society for men and women who fell foul of Pharisaic law! These people were known as “sinners and publicans”, and were at a desperate level of life and society![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Into this environment came Jesus, who mixed with “publicans and sinners”, and by doing so enraged the ruling Pharisees![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Jesus said repeatedly that He came only to the lost sheep of Israel (at that time), and the Gospels show that many “ordinary” people were drawn to Him.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]He eventually proclaimed His Messiah- ship; but because the ruling Pharisees expected a warrior human messiah, to release them from the Romans, they and the people eventually rejected Him, despite the evidential miracles He had performed.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Jesus the Christ (Anointed of God) was, as the world knows, crucified outside the city walls of Jerusalem 2000 years ago.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The Apostle Paul was selected by God as a “chosen vessel” to explain to the Jews (first); the meaning of the crucifixion of Jesus, but 30 years later at his last synagogue visit in Rome, the Jews finally rejected Jesus as their Messiah; and in the poignant statement by Paul in Acts 28:25-28, the Gospel was focused on the Gentiles as first priority “and they will hear”, as Paul declared! At the same time the Jews became “Lo-Ammi” not my people (as first priority); but can become Christians in the same way as Gentiles.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Since that time, approx. AD 61; the Jews have been put to one side by God, dispersed throughout the world, suffered greatly at the hands of Gentiles (pogroms); but recently (1948) have been declared a Nation again; but very few Jews live in Israel, compared with their worldwide population! The present land borders could not in any case accommodate their numbers, but their future borders will (Gen. 15:18).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]We now approach the core of this subject. Why would Israel (Jacob) have to experience what is called “Jacob’s trouble”, or persecution?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]It has been shown that the Jewish nation is called Israel, because Jacob’s name was changed to Isra-el in Gen. 32 and reiterated in Gen. 35. That was because Gen. 32:28 states; (AV,KJV) “God said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob (contender, used of the natural Jacob), but Israel (God commands, orders or rules): for as a prince (commander, orderer) hast thou power with God and with men. And hast prevailed”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]This change of name meant that Jacob/Israel was to lean on/rely on God in the future for all its needs, and was to be commissioned by God to evangelise the world as to His Deity, and to show/witness to Him only; allowing no pagan activity of any sort, including remaining free of interaction by marriage with any of the pagan tribes that would be their neighbours when they entered the “land of promise”! They were to be called by Jehovah “My first born son”, Ex.4:22, the Oracles of God were theirs to proclaim to all the world![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Their blessings were conditional on them keeping to their word which they gave on numerous occasions, after being rescued from distress by God. During times of trouble or rebellion against God, He sent to them messengers in the form of prophets, who showed them the error of their ways, usually to no avail, except for short periods; usually when a God revering man or king influenced them![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The result of their rebellions over centuries, was that they lost favour with their Jehovah God; and the consequence was the loss of their status as “Ammi” (My people), and the Oracles were passed over to the Gentiles to evangelise the world’s peoples and nations. This happened in approx. AD.61-2, and the Jews were dispersed world-wide; because of the final rejection of Christ Jesus as their Messiah [/SIZE]when Paul visited the final important synagogue in Rome!
[SIZE=14pt]The outcome is that Israel must experience a period of time in the yet future, called “Jacob’s Trouble” (Jer. 30:7). This co-relates with Matt. 24, and in particular to the death-bed statements of Jacob, Gen. 49:1, and concerns the “latter days”, which again correlates to Dan. 2:44, “the days of those kings” (yet future). The fact of the “stone cut without human hands” Dan. 2:34; this correlates with Jacob’s statement in Gen. 49:24 “from whence is the Shepherd the Stone of Israel”; showing that the two statements are the same time; i.e. “the latter days”, yet future of today’s date (2014)![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]A full reading of Jer.30 and connected verses throughout Scripture, shows Israel is to be rescued by Jehovah/Christ Jesus, and eventually installed as “a kingdom of priests unto God”, Rev. 1:6, 5:10, 20:6 and Ex.19:6.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]However, that is after the 3.5 years of Jacob’s trouble Dan. 9:27; and God’s wrath on the Gentile nations, which will see a massive population reduction on earth![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The end result will be the quote in Zech. 12:10, “they shall look unto Me Whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourneth for his only son, and they shall be in bitterness for Him, as one is in bitterness for his firstborn” (KJV).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]They will mourn because they will realise for the first time their treachery towards their Jehovah, His prophets, and most of all His Son; Himself Incarnate; given for them[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Floyd.[/SIZE]

RANDOR said:
Anything.......................which means anything.......is not Of God..............is automatically of satan......books, cults, music..etc etc
Anything which is not of God; agreed.
See:

[SIZE=28pt]Babylon[/SIZE]

[SIZE=18pt]The origin of Babylon is well documented in Genesis 10:10, and was originally called "Babel" (in the Semitic = "Bab-ili" = "the gate of the god"; Comp. Bible).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]In Genesis 11:2 onwards, is given the account of the building of Bab-ili "in the land of Shinar", and in v6 the consternation of the Godhead regarding the speed of progress of the people in intellectual and physical development; because of their condition "as gods", which was due to Satan's successful assault on Eve and Adam in Genesis 3, and its results up to that point in Shinar![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The fact of their common language allowed very quick communication and development of ideas, which, had it been allowed to continue, would have thwarted the Plan of God embodied in Genesis 3:15; the Promise of Messiah, to save the human race from the clutches and destruction of Satan![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The Plan of God had to be allowed to develop to the stage we are at now, with Israel the focus point of all the world's conflict and antipathy, yet to be resolved at Armageddon![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Satan's object was to do just that, and to thwart the birth of Messiah, and ultimately the Salvation of some of the human race. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]To that end, The Godhead descended to earth (Gen. 11:7) and dispersed the human race together with their language, to enable the timespan that God has ordained should transpire in His Plan of Salvation; and His dealing with "the mystery of iniquity" (2Thess. 2:7).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=18pt]It is interesting to note that in Gen. 11:7 is the second reference to the Godhead plural![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]In the dispersion of those early humans after the flood, God shows His oversight on earth of His Salvation Plan, which despite the efforts of Satan to undo (see Job), must reach the ordained timespan within the rules of engagement between God and Satan.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]It is interesting to note now the level of mental and physical development on earth, with the very easy and quick communications prevalent, which have enabled unprecedented technology and invention; which as God has allowed this stage to be reached must auger prophetic fulfilment regarding Israel and the Second Advent of Christ Jesus very soon![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]These brief comments on the origin of the city of Babylon, are to introduce an opinion regarding Babylonian prophecy, which is contrary to many commentators. In the main they consider that Babylon the city must be rebuilt from its current ruined state, and that it must be destroyed again in the wrath of God on the nations, as described in Jeremiah 51 and Revelation, during "the Day of Jehovah Zebaoth" see: [/SIZE][SIZE=16pt][[/SIZE][SIZE=18pt]Rev. 1:10 and many places in the Old Testament (OT)[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]][/SIZE][SIZE=18pt].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Bearing in mind that this is only an opinion[/SIZE][SIZE=18pt], and that the physical ancient Babylon may yet be rebuilt and again destroyed, the following are comments that reason for the view that "mystery Babylon" is an evil spirit entity, which has never yet been destroyed and must be, together with the "binding of Satan" (Rev. 20:1-3).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Remembering the original name of Bab-ili means "the gate of the god"; that clearly means the gate of the god Satan, who is the god of this world (Jhn. 2:31,14:30,16:11,Eph. 2:2). A little more of the history of Babylon helps to illuminate the point.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Babylon as is well known was founded by Nimrod, whose father was Cush and Grandfather Ham! Nimrod was "great in rebellion against God" Gen. 10:9, (the standard translation in the AV is "a mighty hunter before the Lord," but on remembering their role in Babylon and the tower of Babel, the favourable AV translation does not fit the context of his life, and Dr. Bullinger and others translate "before" as "in defiance" which is certainly correct.) Babylon became the fountainhead of Satanic opposition to Jehovah God, until its destruction, and the removal of its priests to Pergamos (Anatolia; modern day Turkey).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Canaan was the son of Ham and uncle to Nimrod [Gen. 10:6], and his purpose was to thwart the Messiah line from Genesis (Gen. 3:15).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Historians date early Babylon as approx. 23 centuries BC; which corresponds with the Bible approx. dating's, (Gen. 10:8-9, 1Chron. 1:10.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The city was destroyed in approx. 689BC, in one of its many conflicts. It was rebuilt shortly afterwards, and by the time of Nebuchadnezzar was at its Zenith (604-561BC;) and that was due to Jehovah God's permit for His purposes with His people Israel (Dan. 2:37, Deut. 32:8.) That period was to include the "Hanging Gardens, and the Ishar Gate," which Saddam Hussein failed to rebuild![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Cyrus' decree (2Chron 36) allowed Jews back to Jerusalem to rebuild the Temple.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]In 539BC, it lost its independence to Cyrus/Darius of Persia, who invaded Babylon successfully via the "water gates," after lowering the river water. This is recorded in Dan. 5, during "Belshazzar's feast!"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The Persians ruled until 331BC at the invasion of Alexander the Great; but by 141BC the city of Babylon was completely desolate; and has remained so since, (Jer. 51:37-64!)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]As mentioned above, many respected Bible commentators and students, are of the firm opinion that physical Babylon is to be rebuilt![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Most use Zech. 5 as evidence, as well as Isa. 13 and many other references from Scripture. This must be a matter of individual interpretation, at different stages of history, with as open a mind as possible; prayerfully considered.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The main argument by those that propose the rebuilding of Ancient Babylon the city; are the many references to its destruction in the O.T. by Jehovah God, "In the Day of the Lord." It is our contention that Babylon the city, is confused with Babylon the Land, as in Scripture the land is referred to as Babylon, instead of "Babylonia" (i.e. modern Iraq.) This view is supported by such references as Jer. 51:43, referring to "the cities" (plural.) Also Jer. 51:29 and elsewhere "the land of Babylon!"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]A further supporting comment is that even if Babylon the city was to be rebuilt, as such a small entity, it would not easily encompass the whole earth in its influence as the narrative of Rev. Chps. 17 and 18 show.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]However, time will show the true interpretation.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Rev. 17:5:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt](a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]And upon her forehead a name written, [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt](b)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Mystery Babylon the Great, The Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt](a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] Dr. Bullinger translates; "and upon her forehead she had a name written a secret symbol, (see 13:18 b,)[/SIZE] BABYLON THE GREAT, the mother of harlots, (see notes (a) V.1) and of the abominations of the earth," (Comp.) The name of the woman is therefore a secret sign or symbol of "that great city" which she personifies (see V.18.)
[SIZE=14pt](b) The word "Mystery" is disputed by different translations. Youngs literal has "secret." NIV notes that the word should possibly be excluded, but offers "this mysterious title written." Interlinear has "mystery." Darby has "mystery." RSV has "a name of mystery." Moffatt, "by way of symbol." What is reasonably clear, is that Satan has successfully tricked the world's population to believing the opposite of the truth! As the physical Babylon was destroyed and never revived, (Jer.51,) so here, the dealing is with its spiritual equivalent; which here is beginning its defeat at the hands of God; and the "stone not cut by human hand," (Dan. 2:34 and 45.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The spiritual Babylon, equivalent and greater than the ancient physical Babylon, has/is having the effect worldwide that ancient Babylon had under its founder Nimrod, and his mother. They succeeded in turning people from the True God (Elohim) to many and varied pagan gods and practices, which have spread worldwide. Their main enemy and object was the God of the Hebrews (His chosen people) Jehovah; and Jerusalem His chosen Dwelling Place! Their assault continued throughout the O.T.; and since Acts 28:28, is also focused on all Christ-ones worldwide. The warfare with Satan and his spirits (demons) is now spiritual as well as physical, and is confirmed in the following references, and many others in Scripture: Eph. 6:10-18, 1John 4:1 to 5:8, John 4:24![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The reference to "Mystery Babylon" (Rev. 17:5), begins the possibly true understanding of Satan's consort, and the great anti-thesis to that required by God Almighty of His Created beings. Had Israel remained faithful to their divine task of evangelising for the one True God, the True consort of Jehovah God would have emerged in the faithful wife Israel. However, as is now joyfully the case, Christ Jesus achieved the beginning of the same effect on the Calvary Cross, the completion of which is shown in the New Heaven and New Earth situation at the end of Revelation.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The dealings of God with this entity described as "Mystery Babylon" (17:5,) has many commentators giving many differing views, and ours is maybe different again, but is worthy of consideration. It is notable that after Noah, Babylon quickly emerges as the prime City of the Biblical description, and was following the ways of Satan (prince of the world Jn. 12:31, 14:30, 16:11, Eph. 2:2.) In Dan. 2 is the description and interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar's dream of the "image" (2:31,) the head of which Daniel showed was Nebuchadnezzar's Kingdom. His, and all the described Kingdoms that followed are the Satan system and have left their mark on the world's systems, and the ones yet to be will do the same; all in the power and effort of Satan. This we contend is "Mystery Babylon," and will be destroyed without trace (2:35) by the "stone" (cut without hands, Christ Jesus, 2:34.) The description of the destruction of this Satanic world system is just prior to Satan's "binding," for the duration of the "Kingdom of God on Earth" (the Lord's prayer,) which is also known by many Christians as "the Millennial."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Supporting the above idea, is the fact of anti-Christ's number (666;) Rev. 13:18 ([/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]www.revelationsmessage.co.uk[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]), which in Greek gematria is "SSS," the ancient Babylonian secret symbol of the "Old Mysteries" which are in part all the pagan anti-God religions and practices of Nimrod and Babylon origin. This link with anti-Christ seems conclusively to point to "Spiritual Babylon," see (Chapter 13:18,) as does the reference in Zech. 2:6-8![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]A further point for this tentative conclusion, is that as per Chapter 2:13, the "seat of Satan" after his ejection from heaven with his angels, is Pergamum, in modern day Turkey (ancient Greece.) Had Babylon been in existence in that future day, Satan would undoubtedly have taken up residence there, as it is his capital of evil power, in opposition to Jerusalem and Jehovah Zebaoth! Some might argue that Satan would rebuild Babylon from Pergamum, but he only has an extremely short time after his expulsion from heaven (Rev. 12:9), to his demise and binding (Rev. 20:1-3)! It is not without reason that his priests moved to Pergamum after the demise of Babylon pre. AD, as there must be a spiritual alliance between the two locations; (See: www.revelationsmessage.co.uk Chp. 2:12(a).)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The following is extracted from www.revelationsmessage.co.uk[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The fact the Bible in Revelation 2:13 places Satan's Throne [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]at this site is of great future significance. [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]It is also of great[/SIZE] significance [SIZE=14pt]that the priesthood of Babylon relocated to Pergamum historically![/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]They are the servants of Satan historically, and all pagan worship originates from Babylon,[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]and has spread to all points of the compass in various guises. Notably Buddhism, Islam, Sun and Star Worship in various forms from Egypt, Asia and South America, etc., and many of these religions are now substantially under the heading of the New Age Movement. There is considerable concern among Christians who can discern, regarding the Ecumenical movement. The major problem is that of the slow acceptance by previously Christian groups and Denominations of Christ's true position as depicted in Acts 4:12, being avoided or even overtly eliminated "so as not to rock the boat." It is our view that as Rome carefully orchestrates the Ecumenical Movement, that at the appearance in the future of the Antichrist he will be accepted as the True Christ in His second coming by Christians, the Hidden Imam (the Mahdi) for Islam, the Messiah for the Jews, the 5th Buddha for the Buddhists, and for the New Agers, Maitreya.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]All pagan worship[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] is of the Enemy, [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]and has only one purpose which is [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]rebellion against the One True God,[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] the Almighty. Its aim is to ensnare all mankind,[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]to elevate Satan against the Almighty, [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]and attempt to bring to nothing the great and loving work of our Saviour, Christ[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]Jesus.[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]As Satan has yet to be ejected from the heavens, he has yet to take up his earthly throne at Pergamum.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]When Satan sets up his throne in this ancient Greek site, he will be at the epi-centre of his spiritual stronghold, which is why in the period after Christ's ascension, [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]so much effort was expended by Paul etc., "in taking the battle to the Enemy," at his main location. [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]That area will again be central in the yet future (Zech. 9:13.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Prior to his defeat, the Antichrist will hold sway in Jerusalem, with Satan probably simultaneously in Pergamum. Satan cannot be enthroned in Jerusalem, unless he brings to naught the promises of Jehovah, [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]which would now entail the complete destruction of all Israel.[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]His emissary will attempt just that, i.e."70th week of years," Daniel 9.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Satan must continue his efforts to undermine God's salvation Plans, and as the physical effort seems to have failed, as evidenced by ruined Babylon, the spiritual action from him continues in the form of the great deceiver, in many guises![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Satan is "the father of lies," (John 8:44,) See:[/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]Father of Lies[/SIZE][SIZE=13.5pt] John 8:44 [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] and has sought from Eden, since the "foundation/overthrow" of the world, [/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]starting with Eve, to pervert and thwart the Loving purpose of Jehovah God. That purpose is to Redeem mankind, whom He loves (John 3:16,) to establish Israel (The Bride,) to conquer and destroy Satan and his demons, and to eventually usher in the perfect state, (see notes Chps. 11 and 12. [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]www.revelationsmessage.co.uk[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt])[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]However, the lie goes on. It has continued from Eve in various forms, and usually men and women find the lie attractive in the form it is presented in their own life time. Instead of trusting, studying and teaching the Truth as God the Holy Spirit gives in the Bible, it is perverted, modified etc., to suit the feelings, dogmas, motives and perversions of fallen mankind. The most prevalent currently is [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]"there are many ways to God."[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] This one appeases the world religions (all of Babylon,) and even the pastors, preachers, vicars etc. in the Western world are now exhorted by their colleges, seminaries etc., "not to create waves," by preaching Christ crucified, [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]and the only way of Salvation, (Acts 4:12 and elsewhere.)[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]Rev. 14:8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]And there followed [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]another angel[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt], saying, "(b)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Babylon is fallen, the great [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt](d)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt](b) "Babylon;" see Isa. 21:9 & Rev. 18:2. As mentioned earlier, Babylon is the source of all pagan religions. That progressed strongly under Nimrod and his mother. [/SIZE]Their work has spread worldwide, and their pagan heritage is in all countries, and as well as religions, is showing in [SIZE=14pt]all human activity. As mentioned above, all religions or human activity[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]which does not acknowledge Acts. 4:12, is of Babylon! [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]In V.8 we are told that Babylon is fallen! When that happens, all the world's systems, governments, institutions, trade and commerce, religions and beliefs, ideas and opinions etc., will be brought to nothing, and will stand helpless before Almighty Jehovah Zebaoth![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt](d) "Because etc;" here is the simply stated fact that Satan has used all the human Babylonian endeavours to [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]usurp God Almighty, and enslave and control human beings for his purpose. [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]The words "made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication;" gives the meaning to the[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]methods of Satan's controls,[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]using all human weaknesses.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Rev. 16:19[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]And the (a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]great city was divided into three parts,[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] and the (b)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]cities of the nation's fell; [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]and (c)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt](a)[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]"The great city;" Jerusalem.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt](b)[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]"Cities of the nation's fell;" unimaginable devastation as New York, Toronto, Boston, London, Sydney, Tokyo, to name a few, the skyscrapers falling, the panic, the destruction, the desolation.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt](c)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] "Great Babylon;" the source of all the world's pagan religions and Satanic systems, (see Dan. 4:30,) (Gen. 10:10,) (Gen. 11:9.) See also earlier notes.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The above shows the progression from the physical Babylon to that of the spiritual, which we postulate is the reality of the present day, and which is to be destroyed by Christ Jesus at His return to earth; quite possibly in the near future. When taking into account the current events worldwide, but particularly the events affecting Israel and her Arab neighbours, there is an urgency to the whole subject.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The above is not meant to imply that it is absolutely correct in its interpretation; but to be taken into account, and to encourage study by those who read it![/SIZE]


[SIZE=18pt]An interesting thought is that as Satan has fooled the world into thinking that he does not exist and by extension God, "Mystery Babylon" is his ploy in that endeavour! Almighty God (Jehovah Zebaoth) has an equivalent for this "age time;" that of the "Mystery Church," and the mystery of His dealings with and for Israel (Mk. 4:11, Rom. 11:25, 16:25, Eph. 1:9, 3:3-4, 3:9, 5:32, 6:19, Col. 1:26-27, 2:2, 4:3.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]This great mystery is finally brought to climax and fulfilment by God's release of the seventh angel's efforts (Rev. 10:7, 16:17,) and the destruction of "Mystery Babylon the Great" Rev. 17 and 18.[/SIZE]
 

shturt678

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Thank you folks for caring again!

Matt.7:13 Brief posit: Sqeeze through that narrow portal by a heartful contrite heart (contrition) + a valid "faith" + a Christian life.

Old Jack trying to sqeeze through hourly till I croak.
 

Floyd

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Feb 28, 2014
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[SIZE=18pt]The origin of Babylon is well documented in Genesis 10:10, and was originally called "Babel" (in the Semitic = "Bab-ili" = "the gate of the god"; Comp. Bible).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]In Genesis 11:2 onwards, is given the account of the building of Bab-ili "in the land of Shinar", and in v6 the consternation of the Godhead regarding the speed of progress of the people in intellectual and physical development; because of their condition "as gods", which was due to Satan's successful assault on Eve and Adam in Genesis 3, and its results up to that point in Shinar![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The fact of their common language allowed very quick communication and development of ideas, which, had it been allowed to continue, would have thwarted the Plan of God embodied in Genesis 3:15; the Promise of Messiah, to save the human race from the clutches and destruction of Satan![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The Plan of God had to be allowed to develop to the stage we are at now, with Israel the focus point of all the world's conflict and antipathy, yet to be resolved at Armageddon![/SIZE]

As is well known, the original name of Babylon means "the gate of the God" Satan!
Satan is the "gate" to destruction by following him, and all his devices!

Our lord (Christ Jesus) is the God given "narrow gate"; anti-thesis to Babel; and He said in John14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the Life, no man comes to the Father except through Me"!

The "narrow gate" of Christ Jesus is the anti-thesis to Satan's entry gate, and it's destruction!

Praise Him!!

Floyd.
 

shturt678

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We're beginning to agree to agree more. If we could just get the valid Jesus aboard (IICor.11:4), and Satan bound in hell (Rev.20:2) then we would be on Jesus' way squeezing through that narrow gate together.

Old Jack on Jesus' "way."
 

Floyd

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As is well known, the original name of Babylon means "the gate of the God" Satan!
Satan is the "gate" to destruction by following him, and all his devices!

Our lord (Christ Jesus) is the God given "narrow gate"; anti-thesis to Babel; and He said in John14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the Life, no man comes to the Father except through Me"!

The "narrow gate" of Christ Jesus is the anti-thesis to Satan's entry gate, and it's destruction!

Praise Him!!

Floyd.
 

shturt678

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Thank you folks for caring!

Matt.7:13, "Enter in through the narrow portal." One enters through the "narrow gate" by contrition + faith. Difficult to ride through the gate by "self-righteousness," and etc.?

Old disagreeable Jack,

btw remember there is "another Jesus" thus we need not a "different gospel" for the genuine Jesus to be the valid gate.
 

RANDOR

Fishin Everyday
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Now...........with everyone bein a little over weight now a days..................maybe they should widen that gate a tad bit.
 
B

brakelite

Guest
RANDOR said:
Now...........with everyone bein a little over weight now a days..................maybe they should widen that gate a tad bit.
Come unto me all that are heavy laden....
 

Floyd

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lforrest said:
All the fat belongs to God.
Seems a double meaning here Iforrest!

I was puzzled years ago as to why the fat of the sacrifices in OT was not consumed, but burned, and unto God.
The following for me made sense.

The rule on earth will have Christ Jesus at the focal point of power and rule (Jerusalem,) (Zech.) etc. There is much that can be said about the number 888, but put simply it is the number of the name of Jesus in Greek Gematria. The Hebrew (SH'MONEH,) from the root (SHAH'MEYN,) "to make fat," "cover with fat," "to super abound," is the Hebrew number 8 by Gematria. It also represents in Scripture, "resurrection," "regeneration," "a new beginning or commencement!" Hence the perfect completeness (3) of 8 = 888 = Jesus Christ in Millennial. The number 8 permeates the whole of Scripture, which speaks of CHRIST!

This taken from www.revelationsmessage.co.uk Chp.13.

Floyd.
 

shturt678

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Floyd said:
Seems a double meaning here Iforrest!

I was puzzled years ago as to why the fat of the sacrifices in OT was not consumed, but burned, and unto God.
The following for me made sense.

The rule on earth will have Christ Jesus at the focal point of power and rule (Jerusalem,) (Zech.) etc. There is much that can be said about the number 888, but put simply it is the number of the name of Jesus in Greek Gematria. The Hebrew (SH'MONEH,) from the root (SHAH'MEYN,) "to make fat," "cover with fat," "to super abound," is the Hebrew number 8 by Gematria. It also represents in Scripture, "resurrection," "regeneration," "a new beginning or commencement!" Hence the perfect completeness (3) of 8 = 888 = Jesus Christ in Millennial. The number 8 permeates the whole of Scripture, which speaks of CHRIST!

This taken from www.revelationsmessage.co.uk Chp.13.

Floyd.
Thank you again for caring folks!

Another small little itsy bitsy problem, ie, the rule on earth is where our Lord Godman Christ Jesus is ruling the "Kngdom of Christ" this moment - not "will have."

Old Jack
 

logabe

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Floyd said:
With respect logabe; I cannot agree with you!
Jacob was in the line of The Promises made to the Patriarchs; and he submitted to God; which gave him the "beginning of wisdom".

However; that and he have nothing to do with the current age; which is of Grace; by dint of our Lord's sacrifice at Calvary; and for the Gentiles and Jews, who became the prime object of Almighty God at Acts28:25-28; who are to make up the "Body of Christ Jesus"; as Paul described.
Floyd, with respect; I cannot agree with you, and I'll tell you why. The same Promises
are for us today as God clearly tells us through the great speaker that God used on the
day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38-39).

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent , and be baptized every
one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all
that are afar off , even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

The Promises of God are for whoever responds to His Spirit when He calls the individual
unto Him. Some will respond by believing the good report, but most will respond by
believing the evil report.

My point is, Jacob wasn't born an Israelite at his birth, but through the knowledge of God
his name (nature) was changed when he recognized God was sovereign. The same is true
today with us. We have to come to the end of ourselves and allow God to change our
character and God will also change our name to Israel (God Rules).

We become spiritual Israelites by wrestling with our everyday trials and tribulations for the
purpose of maturing in our walk with God. We do not want to stay a Jacobite, but we want
to learn our lessons just as Jacob did, so our name (Jacob) can be changed to Israel.

I respect the line of the Patriarchs, but the Promises were given also through being born a
new creature through Jesus the Christ in this present grace age. You have to be born again
of the Spirit of God in order to see the Kingdom of God. Jacob was a type and shadow of
our present day salvation. He became a new man after wrestling with the angel Peniel.

Until we see God face to face, we can't really trust him to meet all of our needs just as the
Israelites didn't when they couldn't crossover into the Promised Land that God had given
them. They believed the evil report and that disqualified them from receiving the land that
God had Promised them. In other words, their genetics didn't qualify them to experience
the good life, because God was looking for mature people that were going to believe His
Promises were real.

So, it was their faith that disqualified them just as it is our faith that will justify or disqualify
us from crossing over into the Promised Land (immortality) in this present age also.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe
 
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Floyd

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logabe said:
Floyd, with respect; I cannot agree with you, and I'll tell you why. The same Promises
are for us today as God clearly tells us through the great speaker that God used on the
day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38-39).

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent , and be baptized every
one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all
that are afar off , even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

The Promises of God are for whoever responds to His Spirit when He calls the individual
unto Him. Some will respond by believing the good report, but most will respond by
believing the evil report.

My point is, Jacob wasn't born an Israelite at his birth, but through the knowledge of God
his name (nature) was changed when he recognized God was sovereign. The same is true
today with us. We have to come to the end of ourselves and allow God to change our
character and God will also change our name to Israel (God Rules).

We become spiritual Israelites by wrestling with our everyday trials and tribulations for the
purpose of maturing in our walk with God. We do not want to stay a Jacobite, but we want
to learn our lessons just as Jacob did, so our name (Jacob) can be changed to Israel.

I respect the line of the Patriarchs, but the Promises were given also through being born a
new creature through Jesus the Christ in this present grace age. You have to be born again
of the Spirit of God in order to see the Kingdom of God. Jacob was a type and shadow of
our present day salvation. He became a new man after wrestling with the angel Peniel.

Until we see God face to face, we can't really trust him to meet all of our needs just as the
Israelites didn't when they couldn't crossover into the Promised Land that God had given
them. They believed the evil report and that disqualified them from receiving the land that
God had Promised them. In other words, their genetics didn't qualify them to experience
the good life, because God was looking for mature people that were going to believe His
Promises were real.

So, it was their faith that disqualified them just as it is our faith that will justify or disqualify
us from crossing over into the Promised Land (immortality) in this present age also.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe
Thanks for your input and comments Logabe.
However; as you would expect, I hold to my/our position; see below.
I understand where you are; as there are many variations on what you have said.
Floyd.



[SIZE=28pt]Jehovah's[/SIZE][SIZE=28pt] dealings with Israel[/SIZE]


[SIZE=16pt]The fact that Almighty God is addressing the Jews specifically in the majority of the Old Testament (First or Old Covenant), is self-evident.[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt] However, all mankind is being addressed in the general sense, as the Message is focused on the Propitiation of God in ultimately Christ Jesus![/SIZE] [SIZE=16pt]The beginning of the Old Testament (OT) is addressing the Creation and Fall of humankind under the influence of Satan, with the consequence of the Flood; and as such is showing the consequence of disobedience to Creator God. As such it is addressed to all mankind.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]From Gen.12:1 God draws out a people for Himself, in the initial form of Abram, later Abraham.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Abram in FAITH obeys the “call”, and that faith is credited to him as “righteousness” Gen.15:6; which established the[/SIZE] [SIZE=16pt]principle of ‘faith’ in God’s Word! [/SIZE][SIZE=16pt](Heb.11).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Abraham was called the “friend of God” 2 Chron. 20:7, Isa. 41:8, James 2:23.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Abram and his wife Sarah eventually produce Isaac, a son of faith and Miracle, as both were in extreme old age. The reproductive process continues through to Jacob, renamed Israel after his confrontation and struggle with God, who produced 12 sons, who were the fathers of 12 Tribes.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Under Moses the 12 Tribes are released from bondage in Egypt, and in the process the principle of ‘obedience’ to God’s Command (Word) is established, in the form of the “Passover”. Those that did not sprinkle the blood of the perfect lamb on the doorposts and lintel of their homes, received death from the “angel of death” as ‘he passed over’ them; because they were not covered by the "blood of the Lamb"![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]After their release from Egypt, the 12 tribes were forced to wander in the desert east of Egypt for 40 years, due to disobedience and rebellion against Almighty God and Moses, even after seeing the pursuing army of Pharaoh destroyed by God in the Red Sea![/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]After those of the ‘rebellion’ had died; the 12 Tribes under the leadership of Joshua (Grk. Jesus), were led into the"Promised Land", with the Commission to honour[/SIZE] God’s Name, and to evangelize the local peoples; and the warning from Jehovah not to marry their women, or engage their gods!
[SIZE=16pt]Jehovah God strove with them continually, but to no avail, and they did just the opposite, and after Solomon died, they split in civil war, and declined to the stage of captivity in Babylon![/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]After their return from Babylonian captivity under Ezra and Nehemiah, and Ezra’s strong effort with them to reform to Jehovah, they quickly returned to their old ways, and even wrote their own interpretation and form of scripture, called by some “Wisdom”. See: [/SIZE] [SIZE=10pt]Changes Made To The Old Testament [/SIZE] [SIZE=16pt]This now is added to the Original, and is termed “Torah”! (It is these perversities, and their perpetrators the Scribes, Pharisees and Priesthood, that Jesus and John the Baptist railed against so often)![/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]John the Baptist, Jesus and the Apostle Paul berated the Jewish Hierarchy of the day for adhering to the Pharisaic writings, instead of the Originals given to Moses, known as "Biblical Judaism". It is recorded and well known by the Jews, that the Pharisees in particular were "very flexible" in their interpretations of Torah, and this is confirmed by the Qumran Scrolls. Of the main 'schools', or Groups of the day, the Pharisees, the Sadducees and the Essen’s; the Pharisees became dominant, and at the time of the destruction of the Temple in AD 70, only the "Judaism of the Pharisees", known as "Rabbinic Judaism" prevailed! This grew, and by AD 300, all the Pharisaic Interpretations had been tabulated in the "Mishnah". This is the basis of "Modern Judaism".[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]This is why the Truths of the Messiah of Almighty God, as depicted and prophesied in the "Biblical Judaism" of the Old Testament (OT), are not accepted by the Jews who adhere to the current "Rabbinical Judaism".[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus as the 2nd[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt] person of the Godhead[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt], visited the Jews in the flesh, and pronounced His Messiah-ship as per the OT prophecies, Isa. 61:1 and half of v2. He was at pains in His Ministry to state that He had come to the Jews only, Matt. 10:6 and 15:24, [/SIZE][SIZE=16pt](at that time)[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt].[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Before His death by crucifixion, at “the last supper”, He stated that He was/is “The New Covenant” in His Body and Blood! Heb. 8:13, 12:24.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The majority teaching is that the Jews had finally rejected Jesus as The Messiah of God at Matt. 27:25; However, their Jehovah God did not "put them to one side", until Paul had visited the last of the major Synagogues in Rome. Saul, as he was originally called, was a "chosen vessel", Acts 9:15. See: [/SIZE] [SIZE=10pt]Apostle Paul:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Paul was "chosen" because of his great knowledge and ability, and his sincere heart! His purpose was to be a 'bridge' between the OT and the New Covenant, and to explain to the Jew first, the significance of Jesus and His Sacrificial Work![/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Despite the work of Paul (and others), the offer of the New Covenant of Jer. 31 to the Jews was rejected by them at Acts 28:28. The destruction of the City and Temple followed, and also their dispersion worldwide, as predicted in Deut. 4, if they corrupted God's Word and Commandments.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]When, and not before, they rejected Messiah Christ Jesus at Acts 28:28 a new 'Age' ("Administration") began; the so called "Age of Grace". At that same time, the 'Gifts of Pentecost' ceased, and Paul and others could no longer heal. The purpose for the 'Gifts', the evangelising of the Jews had gone,[/SIZE] they were and still are Lo-Ammi!

[SIZE=16pt]In this 'Age', the Jews are set to one side (Lo-Ammi, Hosea), and any Jew who is in the "Body of Christ", is there by the same criterion as any Gentile, they "trust in the Blood of Jesus The[/SIZE] Christ" for their personal Salvation!

[SIZE=16pt]The majority of Jews are not in the "Body of Christ" (because of their rejection of Jesus as Messiah), and whether living or dead from approx. AD 70 onwards await the "resurrection" specific to the Jews of Dan. 12:2 &13, and Ezek.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The fact of the "Lo-Ammi" (not my people) condition of the Jews at present,[/SIZE] means that their "prophetic progress" is at present halted. The fact of the 1948 'temporal' establishment of the 'State of Israel', augers that their 'Spiritual' Establishment is not too distant. When that happens, they are again "Ammi", (My people), and all events in prophecy OT and NT, (New [SIZE=16pt]Covenant) will quickly progress.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]It is the writers personal belief that all 'resurrected' Jews will be given the opportunity to "look upon Him who they pierced” (Zech. 12:10), and that very few will then reject Christ Jesus. The destination of these resurrected Jews is different to that of Christ's Body, and almost certainly relates to their dwelling in the expanded Israel to the borders promised by Almighty God. Gen. 15:18.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The "Ideal Israel", the "Jeshurun" of the OT, will then become the "Kingdom of Priests" to God in the "Promised Land", to the borders stated in Gen. 12:7, 15:18, 24:7, 48:4, Ex. 32:13, which will have worldwide effect for the surviving Gentile nations. That condition will last for 1000 years, prior to the release of Satan for a short period.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]When that has come to pass, Jehovah will then have fulfilled His Promise to the Patriarchs, in Ex.19:6![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]See: [/SIZE] [SIZE=10pt]A Kingdom of Priests unto God[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]To conclude; in the opinion of the writers, the destination of the Jewish Nation is not the same as "the Body of Christ", which is/will be Blessed beyond present ability to describe. But, there will be many individual Jews who are in the "Body". See:[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt] ([/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]The 144'000; [/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt] [/SIZE]
 

Madad21

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Floyd said:
Randor/Arnie; JW, and Unitarian's and all who deny the Deity of Christ Jesus, are open evidence of; and representative's of Satan's current activity in the world.
The Admin. on this Board have I believe banned them for their blatant resistance to the Truth of Scripture; which was particularly bad and persistent in Purity. They were hoping that the Scriptural arguments presented by the Christians here, would have won some over; but they saw the futility of that over time; and did not want to lose good Christian people and debate here.

Most people are not aware enough IMO of the dangers posed by Satan, and do not take him seriously; and do not know what his purpose is!


"For where God built a church, there the Devil would also build a chapel."
- Martin Luther

This is very true, in the Pentecostal revivals of the early 1900's there were very few who were actually Biblically literate. Many Pastors at the time did not require sound biblical knowledge and so all these different doctrines began to spring up. By the time they instituted seminaries and placed a bigger emphasis on teaching the Bible in Churches it was already too late and false doctrines spread.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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Jesus called Himself the Way. Seems to me He is the example for salvation - if we allow the Holy Spirit to guide us like He guided Christ, we have Eternal Life. It is interesting to listen to people talk about OSAS when you consider Christ; did He have eternal life on Earth? Of course He did! He was and is so complete, He WAS and IS eternal life. He was and is so complete, He WAS and IS the narrow gate. We are called to be the same. The only difference between us and Christ on Earth is that we started out broken and are being fixed. He always was and perfect. With His guidance and the HS instruction we can be redeemed as fully human if we learn and practice and perfect loving others as Christ did and as we were created to do. Doctrine is not salvation - it is merely the equipment used when we are practicing our salvation. Like running shoes to a marathon runner, doctrine only matters when it malfunctions. Adoring Christ is a beautiful and good thing to do, but obeying Him by imitating Him until loving other becomes over very being is our salvation. Little kids still have to sing the alphabet song to know that G comes before H, because they are learning the building blocks of language; we need to reach a point where we no longer have to sing the doctrine song in order to remember how to apply it.

We are all blocks of marble waiting to be transformed into a masterpiece, unfortunately we have the power to resist the master-craftsman and the tendency to do so. However, I believe Christ will have not died in vain, despite our resistance.
 

shturt678

New Member
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aspen said:
Jesus called Himself the Way. Seems to me He is the example for salvation - if we allow the Holy Spirit to guide us like He guided Christ, we have Eternal Life. It is interesting to listen to people talk about OSAS when you consider Christ; did He have eternal life on Earth? Of course He did! He was and is so complete, He WAS and IS eternal life. He was and is so complete, He WAS and IS the narrow gate. We are called to be the same. The only difference between us and Christ on Earth is that we started out broken and are being fixed. He always was and perfect. With His guidance and the HS instruction we can be redeemed as fully human if we learn and practice and perfect loving others as Christ did and as we were created to do. Doctrine is not salvation - it is merely the equipment used when we are practicing our salvation. Like running shoes to a marathon runner, doctrine only matters when it malfunctions. Adoring Christ is a beautiful and good thing to do, but obeying Him by imitating Him until loving other becomes over very being is our salvation. Little kids still have to sing the alphabet song to know that G comes before H, because they are learning the building blocks of language; we need to reach a point where we no longer have to sing the doctrine song in order to remember how to apply it.

We are all blocks of marble waiting to be transformed into a masterpiece, unfortunately we have the power to resist the master-craftsman and the tendency to do so. However, I believe Christ will have not died in vain, despite our resistance.
Thank you for caring!

Matt.7:13, etc. Most of the 65% of the Christians in the U.S. have Jesus, however very few in today's time enter through the 'narrow gate' in the narrow sense of contrition, a valid "faith," and a valid Christian life waaay beyond Church on Sunday for the whole "1" hour.
Old Jack losing weight in order to sqeeze through,

Don't pay that much attention, only talking out loud on this one again.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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I disagree old jack.

I believe loving outwardly is more pervasive than at any other time in history. I think that fundamentalists fail to recognize the work of the HS in the world because they only focus on the fundamentals - all they recognize is the Christians who are like naughty first year piano students; Christians who have forgotten to practice their scales.......it is not because they have forgotten to practice, however......they are too busy practicing Mozart. Gods word will never go out it vain.
 

shturt678

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aspen said:
I disagree old jack.

I believe loving outwardly is more pervasive than at any other time in history. I think that fundamentalists fail to recognize the work of the HS in the world because they only focus on the fundamentals - all they recognize is the Christians who are like naughty first year piano students; Christians who have forgotten to practice their scales.......it is not because they have forgotten to practice, however......they are too busy practicing Mozart. Gods word will never go out it vain.
Thank you for your response!

This is a new one on me, ie, I agree with you, and you disagree with me. I accept.

Old agreeing Jack