What is the one true Church?

[amigo de christo]

WHY CAN'T YOU STOP LYING? You did write about Jesus and Islam! Here are your words: "They [Muslims] believe only in another jesus . Second to their own prophet muhammed ." And they do worship the same God as Christians and Jews. Saying otherwise is another lie!

And there is no such thing as "the buddist relgion"! LOL!!! If you mean Buddhism, it is a religion. So, another lie!

Are you incapable of being truthful???

No i wrote about their FALSE jesus . NOT JESUS , their false image of who they think HE IS .
And it seems if folks preach another jesus many sure do well accept it and bear with it .
THE MUSLIM Version of JESUS is NOT JESUS . THEY false jim . their jesus cannot save them
their prophet muhammed DECIEVED THEM . all a lie jim . just another jesus
And a prophet name muhammed that cannot save them nor himself .

 

[Jim B]

No i wrote about their FALSE jesus . NOT JESUS , their false image of who they think HE IS .
And it seems if folks preach another jesus many sure do well accept it and bear with it .
THE MUSLIM Version of JESUS is NOT JESUS . THEY false jim . their jesus cannot save them
their prophet muhammed DECIEVED THEM . all a lie jim . just another jesus
And a prophet name muhammed that cannot save them nor himself .

Nice try! Changing the subject and claiming that you didn't write what you actually wrote is a lie!

Maybe you should learn something about Islam before you write more garbage. In the Quran, Jesus is described as the Messiah, born of a virgin, performing miracles, accompanied by disciples, rejected by the Jewish establishment, and being raised to heaven.

So, how is that not the same person as the Biblical Jesus??? Another of your lies!

 

[BreadOfLife]

I love Miriam and I have seen her twice, maybe three times.
We all deal with false beliefs.....it is your lack of manners that over shadows anything you say.
As a life long theologian I love Christians and I fellowship with the Baptists, the Lutherans, the Pentecosts, the Catholics, the Glad Tidings Assembly of God, the Moravian Church and nearly a dozen non-denominational churches and I have had Jewish friends from the time I was a kid. Although I favor the Holy Ghost churches I worship with many.

The Lord set me on the path of religious study very early in life. I was a gifted child and went to Catholic schools until I started at a Catholic college at the age of 15. From there I have been a life long student educated in 5 countries. And from the beginning of my ministry I knew that it did not matter what others believed, the only thing that matters is the Truth. And I don’t care what the Truth is and that is what makes me a more knowledgeable and accurate theologian.

And that is why I call my ministry the Johnny Appleseed of Truth. And the Truth is simple.
Love God and love Christians
Be good and do good.

If the Lord set you in the path of religious study – then WHO set you on the path of lies and dishonesty? Because I have exposed you on multiple occasions.

And what is more of a display of a “Lack of manners” or “rudeness”??
Is it LYING about someone’s Church and about what they believe? Is it rewriting history and inventing things that never happened – or is it calling out those lies publicly?

From where I’m sitting – YOU are displaying an abominable level of hypocrisy because you’re one of the biggest offenders of the things I just described.

“Be good and do good” starts with YOU.

So – I’ll make a deal with you:
I’ll stop exposing your lies – if YOU stop lying . . .

 

[Illuminator]

Well you are wrong. But at least you present your wrong beliefs as a Catholic gentleman that is semi intelligent. Kudos!
The fixation on Peter is an example that all denominations can learn from....it is wrong thinking.

We are not fixated on Peter. YOU are fixated on denying his biblical office, a cumulative and powerful biblical and historical argument. You've nurtured voluntary and involuntary doubt that has rendered you blind to the trainloads of biblical and historical evidence. Spiritual blindness is a serious condition. Watch out you don't spiral down into a moral cesspool. (the root of apostacy).

The focus on Peter is the desire to present him as the supreme authority and then ride on his coat-tails....the supreme pontiff.

Another stupid insult.

There is no such thing as a infallible human. As Pope Francis pointed out.
This religious focus on a person is one of the definitions of a cult.

Pope Francis has publicly stated that it's sinful to seek offices for self glorification. It's a recent statement so I should be able to find the article.

Webster's dictionary....Devoted attachment to, or admiration for a person.
This practice of standing on the shoulders of Peter fueled the Church's desire for supremacy of authority and power was was the catalyst that lead them down the road of corruption and atrocities.

Because your view of Church Authority is sick and warped. So is your SDA/JW type false histories.

No church is infallible and no church has supreme authority. The whole thing is wrong thinking and leads to disaster.

Like a typical MODERNIST, you use terms with different meanings. You use the false erroneous definition of "infallible" that has nothing to do with the truth. You have been given every opportunity to learn what true infallibility means, but you resist it at every turn. You are afraid of the truth.

All of the Apostles were great but they were just men. Men that made their mistakes along the way.
The Bible and history proves that James was the overseer of Jerusalem and as such was the leader of the twelve Jewish-Apostles.

Wrong. James was overseer of Jerusalem whose opinion ("...it is my judgement...") backed up what Peter had already doctrinally declared. Peter spoke infallibly (because the Holy Spirit was with them). It has been explained to you repeatedly in detail. If the Holy Spirit wasn't there, the Apostles and elders couldn't possibly have reached an infallible decision, binding on all churches. You defy common sense. Your denials leads you to think the authoritive verdicts of Jerusalem Council was fallible, falling into the trap of the man made tradition of a non-infallible church.
Either the CofJ (the Magisterium) reached an infallible decision, or it didn't. The CofJ remained the model for all future councils, notably the Ecumenical Council of Nicae in 325, which obviously you cherry pick the canons what feels good and reject the rest.
State your position, the Magisterium reached an infallible decision or it didn't. I look forward to a well thought out reply supported by links to reliable references.

Paul was the leader of the Gentile-Christians and wrote or influenced most of the New Testament texts. That includes the Gospel of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles, because Luke was a disciple of Paul. And they were great.

Luke wasn't one of the Twelve, he was most likely one of the 70 original disciples, and a companion of Paul. Paul did not write the Gospel of Luke, Luke wrote Luke, and most scholars agree that Luke wrote Acts. You have it backwards.

But still Christianity is not about a focus on men, Christianity is about a focus on Christ.
All Christian churches have the same authority and responsibility and that is to preach the Gospel.

Really?

Here's a punk rock video I'm sure you'll en

 

[Grailhunter]

If the Lord set you in the path of religious study – then WHO set you on the path of lies and dishonesty? Because I have exposed you on multiple occasions.

You are just like everyone else....you have lived your life believing in false beliefs. As I said, we all have to deal with false beliefs. But if we have no manners it means that we have not learned anything from Christ.

Is it LYING about someone’s Church and about what they believe? Is it rewriting history and inventing things that never happened – or is it calling out those lies publicly?

If anyone re-writes history it is the Catholic Church....There was a reason for the Protestant reform and there was a reason that the Catholic Church had a reform of their own and then Vatican II and there is a reason that the Popes have apologized for all bad things that the Catholic Church did in the past. The Truth can be shocking for those that have strong beliefs that are false.

I’ll stop exposing your lies – if YOU stop lying . . .

More bad manners.....

 

[Grailhunter]

Luke wasn't one of the Twelve, he was most likely one of the 70 original disciples, and a companion of Paul. Paul did not write the Gospel of Luke, and most scholars agree that Luke wrote Acts. You have it backwards.

I said, Paul wrote or influenced most of the New Testament. Paul did not write Luke or Acts, but Luke was a disciple of Paul.
Should I apologize because the Truth is shocking....nope.

 

[Illuminator]

This religious focus on a person is one of the definitions of a cult.
Webster's dictionary....Devoted attachment to, or admiration for a person.

I suggest you google "Characteristics of cults", but you won't do that because you are afraid you might see how well you fit in.

DIFFERENCES between the Catholic Church
and Cults​

Catholic Church
The Catholic Church has sources of authority other than the leader (the Pope), such as the Bible, Councils, Church Law, and writings by other Catholic authorities.

Cults
The leader is the sole source of authority for the group.

Catholic Church
A new member clearly knows what the organization is that he (she) is joining,is warned in advance about what is expected, and what he (she) can and cannot do, often has to wait for several months to a year before joining the Church to make sure that the obligations of being a Catholic are understood.

Cults
A new member is deliberately deceived about the obligations of belonging to the group. Cult recruits often attend a cult activity, are lured into "staying for a while," and soon find that they have joined the cult for life, or as one group requires, members sign up for a "billion year contract...." , is not warned in advance about what is expected, and what he (she) can and cannot do, is often duped into joining a cult during the course of a weekend, which was supposed to be a fun weekend with some new friends, or it could even have been advertised as a weekend seminar to quit smoking or lose weight.

A member of the Catholic Church retains freedom of politics, friends, family association, selection of spouse, and information access to television, radio, reading material, telephone, and mail.

Cults restrict the access that members have to outside sources of information, and tell cult members that their families and former friends are "evil" or "sinners" because they don't belong to the cult.

A member of the Catholic Church is told to remain in the Church, but is never physically forced to remain.

Members of a religious cult are physically forced, if necessary, to remain in the group. Sometimes group members who try to leave are kidnapped and brought back to the group. Members the cult group in Jonestown Guyana who tried to resist the order from Jim Jones to commit suicide were gunned down by other cult members.

Medical and dental care are available, encouraged, and permitted for members of the Catholic Church. History shows that the Catholic Church was the first one to build hospitals, and provided free medical care to those who could not afford it.

Many cults discourage and sometimes forbid medical care.

Catholic ChurchTraining and education received in Catholic schools are usable later in life. History shows that the Catholic Church was the one building schools and universities when no-one else was during the so-called "Dark Ages."

Cults do not necessarily train a person in anything that has any value in the greater society.

In the Catholic Church, public records are kept. Members have access to their own records.

Cult records, if they exist, are confidential, hidden from members, and not shared.

A system of Church Law is provided within the Catholic Church. A Church member can also utilize legal and law enforcement agencies and other representatives of the civil law if needed.

In cults, there is only the closed, internal system of justice, with no appeal or recourse to outside support.

Families of Church members talk and deal directly with Catholic schools. Children may attend Catholic or non-Catholic schools.

In cults, children, child rearing, and education are often under the absolute control of the cult leader.

Catholicism respects the laws of the land. The Catholic Church negotiates a concordat with the government of every nation, in which the Church and the state agree upon any exemptions from the civil law that are available to Church members.

Cults consider themselves above the law, and are a law unto themselves, and cult leaders are accountable to no one, not even their members.

A Church member gets to keep his (her) money, property, gifts and inheritances. Pope Leo XIII wrote defending private property in his encyclical "Rerum Novarum," May 15, 1891.

In many cults, members are expected to turn over to the cult all money and worldly possessions.

Rational behavior is valued in the Catholic Church. Elsewhere we have proven that the Catholic Church has condemned those who discourage the use of reason and rational thinking. Cults discourage members from thinking independently, and their normal thought processes are stifled and broken.

The right for members of the Catholic Church to make suggestions and offer criticism to Church leaders is protected by Church Law.

The cult leader is always right, and the members who disagree, as well as all outsiders, are always wrong. Members who criticize the leader are ridiculed and often treated violently, or may simply be expelled from the group.

Church members cannot be used for medical and psychological experiments without their informed consent.

Cults essentially perform psychological experiments on their members through implementing so-called thought-reform processes without members' knowledge or consent.

Reading, education, and knowledge are encouraged by the Catholic Church. It was the Catholic Church that preserved books and learning, and which founded the first universities, and which brings education wherever Catholic missionary effort goes.

If cults do any education, it is only in their own teachings. Members come to know less and less about the outside world; contact with or information about life outside the cult is sometimes openly frowned upon, if not forbidden.

The Catholic Church looks for new members among all races and classes of people. The Church does not concentrate their search for new members among the lonely and the vulnerable and the wealthy.

Cults do not look for new members with equal effort among all races and classes of people. Cult concentrate their recruiting efforts among certain groups: Cults target the lonely and the vulnerable.
Cults target rich individuals.

In the Catholic Church, physical fitness is never discouraged. In some monastic orders, like the Dominicans, physical fitness exercises are mandatory.

Cults rarely encourage fitness or good health, except perhaps for members who serve as security guards or thugs.

Adequate and properly balanced nourishment is never discouraged by the Catholic Church. Catholic religious orders make balanced meals at regularly scheduled times mandatory for all members.

Many cults encourage or require unhealthy and bizarre diets. Typically, because of intense work schedules, lack of funds, and other cult demands, cult members are not able to maintain healthy eating habits.

In the Catholic Church, many methods of instruction and education are used, but brainwashing, or thought-reform, is not used.

Read it again, and replace the word "leader" with "Grailunter" and let the readers keep their own score.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are just like everyone else....you have lived your life believing in false beliefs. As I said, we all have to deal with false beliefs. But if we have no manners it means that we have not learned anything from Christ.

And yet, YOU can’t see your hypocrisy in that LYING is far WORSE than having “bad manners”.

In the case of our conversation MY manners are just fine. YOU just don’t like being exposed for vomiting out your lies.

If anyone re-writes history it is the Catholic Church....There was a reason for the Protestant reform and there was a reason that the Catholic Church had a reform of their own and then Vatican II and there is a reason that the Popes have apologized for all bad things that the Catholic Church did in the past. The Truth can be shocking for those that have strong beliefs that are false.

And there you go again.

The Catholic Church doesn’t “deny” that it was in need of reform – and that there were some bad characters in church history. It was the nature of the so-called “Reform” by your Protestant Fathers that was so anti-Biblical and spawned the endless splintering that continues to this day. It is responsible for the perverted doctrines that were invented – and continue to be invented to this day.

You remind me of the endless barrage of Lefties with Trump Derangement Syndrome who can’t point to anything bad in his presidency – but his “mean tweets” should disqualify all of the tremendous good he’s done.

I’ll say to YOU what I say to them:
“Grow up and be honest, for a change . . .”

 

[Illuminator]

APA IS HAVING A MENTAL BREAKDOWN​

Catholic League president Bill Donohue comments on the APA’s endorsement of sexual libertinism:

It is becoming ever more clear that those who run the American Psychological Association (APA) are suffering from a mental breakdown. It is now promoting “relationship anarchy,” as well as other dysfunctional behaviors. To the APA, about the only deviant sexual behavior that is left in American society is what most of us would call normal heterosexual monogamous unions.

Its descent is traceable to 1975 when it decided to support the position of the American Psychiatric Association declaring that homosexuality was not a mental illness. That determination, which was reached in 1973, was not based on any new scientific empirical evidence; rather, it was made following years of bullying by radical gay activists.

The APA is on a tear. Earlier this year it made a strong political statement attacking men [read: heterosexual men]. It opined that a pernicious “masculine ideology” has overtaken society and must be rooted out. What are the contents of this ideology? “Anti-femininity,” which is to say the normal male tendency not to identify with effeminate men. It also includes such dangerous attributes as “achievement.” Evidently, it does not see the sexism in this statement (it implies that women are not achievement oriented).

The latest APA endorsement of polygamy and swinging (and my favorite, the all-inclusive “relationship anarchy”) was announced this month as part of the APA’s “Non-Monogamy Task Force” program; it says it is promoting “inclusivity.” It has not yet endorsed bestiality (which is no doubt a tribute to the animal rights folks), but who knows what lies beyond the bend? That may be next. Isn’t that what “inclusivity” is all about?

Ten years ago a book was released by three psychologists, Nicholas Cummings, William O’Donohue, and Janet Cummings, titled Psychology’s War on Religion. I contributed the chapter, “The War on Catholicism.”

I quoted Freud as saying “my real enemy” is “the Roman Catholic Church.” I also detailed Jung’s pathological hatred of the Catholic Church. Many other wizards in the field who shared the same bias were discussed as well. Make no mistake about it, there is a direct line between this kind of thinking and the APA’s embrace of “relationship anarchy.”

Let’s face it, the APA leadership is actively pushing the radical gay agenda, the goal of which is to eradicate the cultural basis of Western civilization, namely the Judeo-Christian ethos. Their ideology is so entrenched that they are unable to see the psychological and social damage that is done to everyone, especially women and children, when a sexual ethic based on restraint is destroyed. And have they not learned of the body count attributed to lethal sex practices?
The APA is not a scientific body—it is an activist organization in service to sexual libertinism.

​

 

[Grailhunter]

I suggest you google "Characteristics of cults", but you won't do that because you are afraid you might see how well you fit in.

If you get into theology you will learn that certain terms are erroneous, for example cult or Gnostic. Essentially in use they mean we do not like your religion, but there are specifics that define actual cults.
The definition I gave you was from the Webster's dictionary, just simple, but it usually run true and usually there is an element of secrecy. There is a lot more information that you can find and we have modern examples of what the characteristic are of what people refer to as cults.....ie the Branch Davidian, Jim Jones, Moonies, Hare Krishnas, Heaven's Gate etc.. Cults usually focus on a man. A man is essential to the structure and authority of the Cult. There is usually some control of personal sexuality within the cult and or sexual abuse. And deaths are associated with the cult. And in most cults it is hard to leave the cult.

Although the Catholic Church rings most of those bells, I would say that the Catholic Church is not a cult because you can leave it at anytime. And those going to mass do not have to deal with most of that. Sexual control is limited to the clergy and nuns....except they want to control contraception.

The modern Catholic Church needs to work on the sexual abuse issues that occur in the Church. Having a bunch of horny priests does not help the situation. And it is one thing for sexual abuses to happen but it is another to cover them up and protect the perv.

but you won't do that because you are afraid you might see how well you fit in. AND MORE RUDNESS.

 

[Jim B]

You are just like everyone else....you have lived your life believing in false beliefs. As I said, we all have to deal with false beliefs. But if we have no manners it means that we have not learned anything from Christ.

If anyone re-writes history it is the Catholic Church....There was a reason for the Protestant reform and there was a reason that the Catholic Church had a reform of their own and then Vatican II and there is a reason that the Popes have apologized for all bad things that the Catholic Church did in the past. The Truth can be shocking for those that have strong beliefs that are false.


More bad manners.....

The Catholic denomination has committed very serious sins in the very recent past. The archdiocese of Santa Fe NM was bankrupted by the $122,000,000 fine they had to pay for protecting the many priests who sexually abused children in recent years.

Read all about it here: For sexual abuse victims in Santa Fe archdiocese, $122 million settlement a ‘next step’

 

[Grailhunter]

In the case of our conversation MY manners are just fine.

The fact that you think your manners are just fine, is a big problem. You shame the Catholic Church and if anyone thought that you are an example of the character of Catholics in general, it is understandable that people would think poorly of the Catholic Church. But you are not an example of Catholics. Catholics are good people and you are a poor representative of the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church doesn’t “deny” that it was in need of reform – and that there were some bad characters in church history. It was the nature of the so-called “Reform” by your Protestant Fathers that was so anti-Biblical and spawned the endless splintering that continues to this day. It is responsible for the perverted doctrines that were invented – and continue to be invented to this day.

The Catholic Church did reform and it is a much better Church today.
But some bad characters in the past....that is ridiculous. In the past bad characters filled the Church leadership from the Pope down.
The Protestants are anti-Bible LOL The Protestant reform was all about getting back to the Bible and cutting out the man-made doctrines and false beliefs.

You remind me of the endless barrage of Lefties with Trump Derangement Syndrome who can’t point to anything bad in his presidency – but his “mean tweets” should disqualify all of the tremendous good he’s done.

Yep I am a Trump supporter.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Catholic denomination has committed very serious sins in the very recent past. The archdiocese of Santa Fe NM was bankrupted by the $122,000,000 fine they had to pay for protecting the many priests who sexually abused children in recent years.

Read all about it here: For sexual abuse victims in Santa Fe archdiocese, $122 million settlement a ‘next step’

How is being made to pay--off on lawsuits a "sin"?
Is it only a "sin" when they have to pay - or when lawyers see dollar signs?

How about all of the Protestant churches where sexual abuse ius going on but they have no money to pay?
Is that a "sin"?

How Protestant Churches Hid Sexual Abuse ...​

Blogger Who Exposed Protestant Sex Abuse Cover Up Sued By Her Pastor

Denial About Sexual Abuse In Evangelical Churches

Southern Baptists Apologize For Sex Abuse Coverups

Confronting Evangelical Enabling of Sexual Abuse

Bombshell: sex abuse, coverup in America's largest Protestant ...

Southern Baptist leaders covered up sex abuse, kept secret ...

Clergy Abuse Coverup within the Protestant Church

Evangelicals ‘worse’ than Catholics on sexual abuse

Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson

Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics

 

[Grailhunter]

The Catholic denomination has committed very serious sins in the very recent past. The archdiocese of Santa Fe NM was bankrupted by the $122,000,000 fine they had to pay for protecting the many priests who sexually abused children in recent years.

Read all about it here: For sexual abuse victims in Santa Fe archdiocese, $122 million settlement a ‘next step’

Yep a lot of their money goes to paying off court fees and settlements.

 

[Illuminator]

Although the Catholic Church rings most of those bells,

Another stupid baseless insult. A typical mud slinging zinger from a supposed polite Modernist. We've seen phonies before.

I would say that the Catholic Church is not a cult because you can leave it at anytime. And those going to mass do not have to deal with most of that. Sexual control is limited to the clergy and nuns....except they want to control contraception.

Contraception and abortion are twin evils of the same root; it didn't take long for you to admit your moral deficiencies.

The modern Catholic Church needs to work on the sexual abuse issues that occur in the Church. Having a bunch of horny priests does not help the situation. And it is one thing for sexual abuses to happen but it is another to cover them up and protect the perv.

but you won't do that because you are afraid you might see how well you fit in. AND MORE RUDNESS.

The second worse scandal next to the priestly sex abuse scandal is that nothing has been done about it.

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishop’ Secretariat of Child and Youth Protection has released its audit on clergy sexual abuse that covers the period July 1, 2018 – June 30, 2019.

During this time, there were 37 allegations made by current minors. Eight were substantiated, 7 were unsubstantiated, 6 were unable to be proven, 12 are still being investigated, 3 were referred to religious orders, and 1 was referred to another diocese.

Of the 49,972 members of the clergy (33,628 priests and 16,344 deacons), .07% (37) had an accusation made against them for abusing a minor. However, since only .016% (8) could be substantiated, that means that 99.98% of priests did not have a substantiated accusation made against them.

In other words, clergy sexual abuse is near 0%.

It is hardly surprising that the media are ignoring this story. The only stories about the Catholic Church that they see fit to print or air are those that put the Church in a negative light. That they wallow in dirt cannot be denied.
source

It is my contention that there was another scandal. Scandal II is how the media, the entertainment industry, advocacy groups, victims’ activists and their lawyers, state attorneys general and others have been preoccupied with the Church, to the exclusion of other groups and institutions. Quite frankly, they have been playing us. Their interest in combating the sexual abuse of minors depends solely on the identity of the abuser, not his conduct.

Ch. 3 “The Poisoning of the Public Mind”

This chapter hones in on Scandal II. The faulty public perception that no progress has been made is commonplace. The role played by the media has been huge. By reporting on new accusations—even though the alleged misbehavior took place decades ago—it leaves the impression that nothing has changed.
There is no other institution in society that is treated this way.-
source

The Catholic League would never defend the indefensible. That is why we praised the media for putting the spotlight on the Church’s sex-abuse scandal in 2002. Without journalists breaking the story, the Church may have been slower to clean house and a greater number of adolescents may have been harmed. Similarly, we have never criticized those victims of abuse who file legitimate lawsuits against the church, or lay groups that truly are focused on helping the reform process. Nevertheless, recent events have forced us to reconsider our earlier assessment.

It is obvious to us that there is a growing problem of late with trial lawyers, advocacy groups, certain segments of the media and even lawmakers seeing the sex abuse scandal not as a problem that has largely been corrected, but as an unending supplier of money, ratings and attention. Moreover, individuals from these various fields are joining forces, not to protect young people—if that were the goal, calls for reform would begin with the public schools—
but to bludgeon the Catholic Church.
source

Guide to Understanding Basic CDF Procedures concerning Sexual Abuse Allegations

www.vatican.va

Abuse of minors. The Church's response

Abuse of minors. The Church's response

www.vatican.va

Pope meets with abuse survivors, weeps with them in Chile

SANTIAGO, Chile – Pope Francis met on Tuesday with survivors of priests who sexually abused them, wept with them and apologized for the “irreparable damage” they suffered, his spokesman said. The pontiff also acknowledged the “pain” of priests who have been held collectively responsible for the...

toronto.citynews.ca

​

 

[Illuminator]

Having come to realize that, and in my strong desire (back in 1990, as a zealous evangelical apologist and evangelist) to fully follow biblical and historic Christian teaching, I could hardly become a Protestant again, because virtually no Protestants understand that it is a grave sin. Even the Eastern Orthodox have (for the most part) caved on the issue.

This is one example of many of what we could describe as “calling evil good.” That is what I cannot in good conscience participate in. With the Catholic sex scandal, on the other hand, it is a case of heinous sin tragically taking hold among a certain tiny percentage of Catholic clergy. No Catholic is calling evil good with regard to that. We all heartily condemn the terrible sins.

We don't teach that the sins are okay, as scores of Protestant denominations (and just about all the mainline ones) do on other sex-related issues such as abortion, divorce, fornication, and same-sex “marriage”: to name a few things. I would contend that the Catholic Church (and she alone) holds very firmly to biblical and ancient Christian teaching on all these issues.

This is a major reason why I am a Catholic. It's not because I think Protestantism (on the whole) is a “bad” thing (or because Catholic persons are supposedly far superior morally to other Christians: what a joke!). I believe that Protestantism is a very good thing (at least the evangelical and more traditional portions of it), but that Catholicism is the best thing, ecclesiologically speaking.

And of course, that doesn't even get to a host of theological issues. Grailhunterism hold to erroneous teachings with regard to the Eucharist, sola Scriptura, sola fide, apostolic succession, tradition, Mariology, penance, absolution, five of the seven sacraments, the papacy, Church governance (hierarchy, bishops, popes, etc.), baptismal regeneration, purgatory, communion of saints, praying for the dead, the sacrifice of the Mass, the deuterocanonical books, liturgical matters, etc.

Every Protestant denomination, to more or less degrees, holds to theological and moral errors that an educated, observant Catholic cannot accept. From our perspective, it's like going from a magnificent feast, to a bread and water diet.

Yes, we acknowledge the sacramental (regenerative) validity of Protestant trinitarian baptism (reiterated at Trent and not “introduced” at Vatican II), and (what is far less known) we also regard the marriage between two lifelong previously unmarried Protestants as sacramental as well. But none of that wipes out the lack of so many theological and moral teachings, as outlined above. If that is all a Christian knows (as used to be the case with myself, from 1977-1990), then it's good.

But for the Catholic who has participated in the fullness of Christianity, it can never (again, or for the first time) be enough. It will always be — notwithstanding many good and true Christian teachings in it and lots of wonderful, godly Christians — fundamentally deficient.

A Protestant can indeed be saved, under certain conditions (CCC 847, quoting Vatican II document Lumen Gentium, 16), but we also hold that if he or she truly knows that Catholicism is the fullness of the Christian faith (only God knows their hearts and the extent of their understanding), and rejects it, that they are in danger of final damnation. In that sense, we still do assuredly hold to “no salvation outside the Church”:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. (CCC 846, again citing Lumen Gentium)​

When we converts come to fully understand these things, we have no other choice in good conscience, but to be received into the Catholic Church. We can no longer be as unknowing or uneducated as we were. And we cannot return to Protestantism, having learned all that we have in becoming Catholics and having fully accepted all that the Catholic Church infallibly teaches.

If the presence of specific sin among fallen Catholics is a reason to reject Catholicism as a Church and developed body of teaching (it is not at all), then institutionalized sin in Grailhunterism (calling evil good) and serious theological / doctrinal deficiency are much more solid reasons to reject Protestantism.

source
see also:

Catholic Sex Scandal & Homosexuality: Reply to Atheist

We may blame the Catholic Church for its sexual abuse crisis, but by the same token, we can’t pretend that a promiscuous homosexuality did not play a key role in the scandal.

www.patheos.com

 

[Illuminator]

Yep a lot of their money goes to paying off court fees and settlements.

Many Protestant churches don't have public liability insurance, so why should greedy steeple chasing lawyers bother with them? There's no money in it.

Catholic leaders have seriously undertaken the good work of protecting minors in recent years (for which the bishops have received little credit). When the media, lawyers, lawmakers and advocacy groups are able to look past the desire to punish the Church—which is increasingly hard to do as they become more and more dependent on it for their livelihoods—they can help with that good work as they have in the past.

Instead, the reputations of these victims’ advocates are seriously tarnished. Since they are entangled with trial lawyers out to make a buck or advance positions inconsistent with Catholic teaching, groups like SNAP and Voice of the Faithful can only be viewed with suspicion. When politicians turn to money-hungry attorneys to craft the laws, it’s hard to trust that they’re really looking out for the best interests of their constituents. And when the media cares as much about filing news-making lawsuits as reporting the news, there are few places for people to learn the straight facts.

The Catholic Church has cleaned up its act. Many others need to follow suit, especially big mouthed rude insulting Modernists like Grailhunter, who complains of BofL's manners.

​

 

[Brakelite]

Jim B said:

The term "Pope" is not in the Bible, because it means "father". The Greek word for Pope is πατέρας (patéras or pappas). It means "father".
In Swahili, it's "baba"
Korean: 아버지 (ah-bo-ji) / 아빠 (abba).
In the first three centuries it was used of any bishop, and eventually the term was used for the Bishop of Alexandria, and finally by the sixth century it was used exclusively for the Bishop of Rome, where the term was used from the beginning of the Church in Rome.

Judges 17:10; 18:19 – priesthood and fatherhood have always been identified together. Fatherhood literally means “communicating one’s nature,” and just as biological fathers communicate their nature to their children, so do spiritual fathers communicate the nature of God to us, their children, through (hopefully) teaching and example.

The term ‘pope’ is from the Greek word ‘pappas’ which means ‘Father.’
Acts 7:2; 22:1,1 John 2:13 – elders of the Church are called “fathers.” =Gk. pappas = English: pope.
1 Cor. 4:15 – Paul writes, “I became your father in Christ Jesus.” =Gk. pappas = English: pope.
Philemon 10 – Paul says he has become the “father” of Onesimus. "father = Gk. pappas
You can't find pope in the Bible???
Can't find "father" in the Bible? Unclench your fists and I'd be glad to show you.

Call no man your 'spiritual' father, for you have but one Father, God. It is God who imparts to His children His Spirit, and His character.
KJV Romans 8:29
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


Placing a man in the place of God is Antichrist.

 

[Grailhunter]

Another stupid baseless insult. A typical mud slinging zinger from a supposed polite Modernist. We've seen phonies before.

Look at the opening statement in the post, the term can be erroneous. But there are some characteristics that are similar to the modern cults we have seen. The difference being that the man they were fixated on was alive recently. But the concept is still there, it is destructive. The focus of the Church should be on Christ, not a man. Catholic and Protestant churches have the same authority and it comes directly from Christ.....no go between.

Contraception and abortion are twin evils of the same root; it didn't take long for you to admit your moral deficiencies.

That is a religious option. The topic is not discussed in the Bible. Contraception and abortion is not the same thing, or to move it backwards, using a rubber would be considered a sin or not having sex would be considered a sin. And then if you do conceive a baby its full of sin! Stand back! Here is comes! Baby full of sin on its way!

You guys need to read Augustine's books....the man was insane and out of control. Original sin is a bunch of bunk....

The second worse scandal next to the priestly sex abuse scandal is that nothing has been done about it.

I do not want this for the Church but there is a history of it. And then you have actual abuses, false accusations, and preceptions....it is all hurting the Church. For that reason, for now the Church needs to take some serious steps.

My mom use to work at Bishop Du Bourg High School and there were a couple priests at the associated church that they were warned not to be alone with. I go to a lot churches and I just do not hear of this much at Protestant churches....not that it does not occur. But the Protestant churches handle it differently.....The Catholic congregation is not going to take the priest and run him out of town on a rail. Back in the 90's there was a Baptist preacher that was caught fondling a little girl. They did not arrest him or sue him. The father took care of it.....after several months the preacher could walk again....They kicked him out of the church and Last year I saw him in Walmart still walking with a cane.

It is a serous issue and Church needs to take steps to even battle the perceptions.....and I am not saying they are not taking steps, but it is going to take sometime, so they need to start now.

The Future of the Church is just that and they have to consider the times......just something like the "me too syndrome" is dangerous.....
They have to protect themselves.....

 

[Grailhunter]

And of course, that doesn't even get to a host of theological issues. Grailhunterism hold to erroneous teachings with regard to the Eucharist, sola Scriptura, sola fide, apostolic succession, tradition, Mariology, penance, absolution, five of the seven sacraments, the papacy, Church governance (hierarchy, bishops, popes, etc.), baptismal regeneration, purgatory, communion of saints, praying for the dead, the sacrifice of the Mass, the deuterocanonical books, liturgical matters, etc.

My erroneous teachings......LOL....How old do you think I am! I did not write the Bible. The way I perform the Bread and blood ritual is pretty much the way Christ performed it.....so erroneous? LOL You are funny......No little white Hosts in the biblical era. The Church comes up with all sorts of things and they want people to think it is from God.

And the belief of apostolic succession was like handing the Church a hangman noose. They took it and hung themselves with it.
But then again traditions can be good. There can be "in Church" traditions that are harmless. Where did they get the Idea of purgatory and penance and praying for the dead. It is not impossible....but where did they get the idea?

But if the tradition is not based on facts then not everyone is going to believe it. Baptism without choice....ya I have some concerns about that, especially when your dealing with the soul of a baby.

A Protestant can indeed be saved, under certain conditions

And see this is another problem.....The Church thinks it has authority over salvation. The Church does not have the authority to set the conditions.....the Bible already did that. Another ill effect of thinking they are standing on the shoulders of Peter.