What is the one true Church?

[David in NJ]

the Holy Spirit is anti roman catholicism

Every Spirit filled Believer knows this for HE leads us into all Truth and exposes the lies that are in conflict with the Word.

the Holy Spirit also teaches us that the 'One True Church' cannot be built/erected/established with men's hands or thru man-made religion.

the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Liberty whereby we cry "Abba, Father" and our spirits rejoice in Salvation given to us from our Heavenly Father.

Finally, the Holy Spirit seals us from the spirit of anti-christ and remains with us all the Way Home = we are never orphans.

 

[Grailhunter]

How do you explain the blood that saves to a non-believer?
Can bread and wine make you eligible for eternal life? Or is there a spiritual aspect of it?
Can bread and wine kill you if you are not prepared to receive it?
Was Christ just kidding?
He risked His ministry over it because many of His disciples no longer walked with Him.
I have heard many Protestants have issues with the blood. Is Christ's blood just blood? Was it human blood? What happens if you do not believe in the spiritual aspect of the blood.

 

[quietthinker]

How do you explain the blood that saves to a non-believer?
Can bread and wine make you eligible for eternal life? Or is there a spiritual aspect of it?
Can bread and wine kill you if you are not prepared to receive it?
Was Christ just kidding?
He risked His ministry over it because many of His disciples no longer walked with Him.
I have heard many Protestants have issues with the blood. Is Christ's blood just blood? Was it human blood? What happens if you do not believe in the spiritual aspect of the blood.

Blood represents life, not some mystical compound with magic powers. That idea is straight out of a pagan handbook!

 

[Grailhunter]

Blood represents life, not some mystical compound with magic powers. That idea is straight out of a pagan handbook!

Judging by the reaction of the Apostles I think that they felt it was Pagan as well as the disciples that left His ministry.
As it is Judaism and Christianity are both blood religions....Both have strong beliefs about blood.
And as I said I have run into a lot of Protestants that have issues with the blood aspects of Christ and Christianity.

 

[Illuminator]

Judging by the reaction of the Apostles I think that they felt it was Pagan as well as the disciples that left His ministry.
As it is Judaism and Christianity are both blood religions....Both have strong beliefs about blood.
And as I said I have run into a lot of Protestants that have issues with the blood aspects of Christ and Christianity.

John 6:66 As a result of this many of His disciples left, and would no longer walk with Him. 67 So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to leave also, do you?” 68 Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

What words? What "words" is Peter referring to? All His words in the New Testament? Or the words Jesus just finished explaining in John 6? You don't need a Ph.D. in systematic theology to accept His words by faith. Without supernatural faith, His Words are grotesque and incomprehensible. You either believe what Jesus said, or you don't. Children having attained the age of reason, around 7, don't have this problem.

John 6:35,41,48,51 – Jesus says four times “I AM the bread from heaven.” He's referring to Himself, His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. Not a book, that didn't come into full bloom for nearly 4 centuries.

FOUR TIMES isn't enough for those who refuse to believe, and Jesus knew that. Maybe that's why He didn't stop them from walking away, it would have been pointless.
Jesus didn't say, "Hey fellas, come back, I was only speaking figuratively." DUH!

"I AM". Does that look familiar???

Jesus posed a question the Twelve, not directly to Peter alone.
68 Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go...?
*"WE"* Obviously Peter is speaking on behalf of all the Apostles, yet some will argue till they're blue in the face that Peter had no preeminence, just like they argue that "eating bread" means reading the Bible. Double DUH.

Eucharistic Index - The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

Introduction to the Eucharist, the Eucharist in Scripture, the Eucharist and Vatican II, Eucharistic Miracles, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration, and evidence proving that the Early Christians believed in the Real Presence.

therealpresence.org

 

[Grailhunter]

John 6:66 As a result of this many of His disciples left, and would no longer walk with Him. 67 So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to leave also, do you?” 68 Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

What words? What "words" is Peter referring to? All His words in the New Testament? Or the words Jesus just finished explaining in John 6? You don't need a Ph.D. in systematic theology to accept His words by faith. Without supernatural faith, His Words are grotesque and incomprehensible. You either believe what Jesus said, or you don't. Children having attained the age of reason, around 7, don't have this problem.

John 6:35,41,48,51 – Jesus says four times “I AM the bread from heaven.” He's referring to Himself, His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. Not a book, that didn't come into full bloom for nearly 4 centuries.

FOUR TIMES isn't enough for those who refuse to believe, and Jesus knew that. Maybe that's why He didn't stop them from walking away, it would have been pointless.
Jesus didn't say, "Hey fellas, come back, I was only speaking figuratively." DUH!

"I AM". Does that look familiar???

Jesus posed a question the Twelve, not directly to Peter alone.
68 Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go...?
*"WE"* Obviously Peter is speaking on behalf of all the Apostles, yet some will argue till they're blue in the face that Peter had no preeminence, just like they argue that "eating bread" means reading the Bible. Double DUH.

Eucharistic Index - The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

Introduction to the Eucharist, the Eucharist in Scripture, the Eucharist and Vatican II, Eucharistic Miracles, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration, and evidence proving that the Early Christians believed in the Real Presence.

therealpresence.org

Don't get me wrong....I am big on the Bread and wine ritual and the sacred blood of Yeshua.
But still the initial reaction of the Apostles is not surprising. To them the concept of drinking someone's blood and eating someone's body was of the worst of sacrileges. I am sure this was not the only conversation He had with the Apostles on this. The details of why it was important? Why it had to be done? And what all it involved from the physical and the spiritual aspects? Do we understand? Can we understand?

For this reason I think it is important to do it with wine and bread....not a Host and not with crackers and Kool-Aid.

 

[quietthinker]

Don't get me wrong....I am big on the Bread and wine ritual and the sacred blood of Yeshua.
But still the initial reaction of the Apostles is not surprising. To them the concept of drinking someone's blood and eating someone's body was of the worst of sacrileges. I am sure this was not the only conversation He had with the Apostles on this. The details of why it was important? Why it had to be done? And what all it involved from the physical and the spiritual aspects? Do we understand? Can we understand?

For this reason I think it is important to do it with wine and bread....not a Host and not with crackers and Kool-Aid.

Jesus says his stuff and then qualifies his words about eating his body and drinking his blood in John 6:63 because the disciples didn't get it

53Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For My flesh is [k]food indeed, and My blood is [l]drink indeed. 56He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.57As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

59These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.

Many Disciples Turn Away​

60Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a [m]hard saying; who can understand it?”

61When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

Oh and by the way, I've been to your country and discovered you don't know what bread is......instead you substitute an over sugared mix of bleached flour and call it bread.......Oh how the mighty have fallen!

 

[Grailhunter]

Jesus says his stuff and then qualifies his words about eating his body and drinking his blood in John 6:63 because the disciples didn't get it

53Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For My flesh is [k]food indeed, and My blood is [l]drink indeed. 56He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.57As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

59These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.

Many Disciples Turn Away​

60Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a [m]hard saying; who can understand it?”

61When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

Are you arguing with yourself?

 

[quietthinker]

Are you arguing with yourself?

Am I arguing?....wow, perceptions are really distorted!

 

[marksman]

the charismatic movement is just another denomination that abuses the scripture for profit and notoriorty.

A broad brush comment that would not stand up to scrutiny.

 

[Grailhunter]

Am I arguing?....wow, perceptions are really distorted!

Where do we disagree?

 

[David in NJ]

A broad brush comment that would not stand up to scrutiny.

Mens scrutiny is mutiny.

Your right, only because it was too broad a sweep.

What men have done with merchandising the words of God in the charismatic movement is not pleasing to the Lord.

Same as with all denominations whereby it causes division in the Body of Christ.

Not withstanding that the Lord is in those who love Him, wherever they are and wherever they do meet for fellowship.

 

[marksman]

Mens scrutiny is mutiny.

Your right, only because it was too broad a sweep.

What men have done with merchandising the words of God in the charismatic movement is not pleasing to the Lord.

Same as with all denominations whereby it causes division in the Body of Christ.

Not withstanding that the Lord is in those who love Him, wherever they are and wherever they do meet for fellowship.

As church history is one of my favorite topics, I have studied the charismatic in depth. There is no such thing as a charismatic "movement." It takes many forms and expressions and cannot be categorized with one word.

The only word that validates it is the Greek word "charisms" which means anyone who uses or promotes the gifts of the Holy Spirit and that in itself has a myriad of expressions. So there is no charismatic "Movement" as such.

 

[David in NJ]

As church history is one of my favorite topics, I have studied the charismatic in depth. There is no such thing as a charismatic "movement." It takes many forms and expressions and cannot be categorized with one word.

The only word that validates it is the Greek word "charisms" which means anyone who uses or promotes the gifts of the Holy Spirit and that in itself has a myriad of expressions. So there is no charismatic "Movement" as such.

Scripturally speaking, indeed there was, is and is to come 'charisma movement' upon the People of God.

Do you know where in the Scriptures?

 

[marksman]

Scripturally speaking, indeed there was, is and is to come 'charisma movement' upon the People of God.

Do you know where in the Scriptures?

No because there is no such a thing as a charismatic movement because the NT Church in totality was practitioners of the charisms.

 

[David in NJ]

No because there is no such a thing as a charismatic movement because the NT Church in totality was practitioners of the charisms.

Well then i guess you'll just have to remain in your own thoughts on this.

 

[marksman]

Well then i guess you'll just have to remain in your own thoughts on this.

What a strange reply

 

[Grailhunter]

The charismatic movement in Christianity is a movement within established or mainstream Christian denominations to adopt beliefs and practices of Charismatic Christianity with an emphasis on baptism with the Holy Spirit, and the use of spiritual gifts (charismata). It has affected most denominations in the US, and has spread widely across the world.

The movement is deemed to have begun in 1960 in Anglicanism, and spread to other mainstream protestant denominations, including Lutherans and Presbyterians by 1962 and to Roman Catholicism by1967. Methodist became involved in the charismatic movement in the 1970s.

The movement was not initially influential in evangelical churches, and although this changed in the 1980s in the so called Third Wave, this was often expressed in the formation of separate evangelical churches such as the Vineyard Movement - neo-charismatic organizations that mirrored the establishment of Pentecostal churches.

The classic Pentecostalism movement usually traces its origin to the early twentieth century, with the ministry of Charles F. Parham and the subsequent ministry of William Joseph Seymour and the Azusa Street Revival. Its unique doctrine involved a dramatic encounter with God, termed baptism with the Holy Spirit. The evidence for having received this experience was interpreted by some as speaking in tongues.

Before 1955 the religious mainstream did not embrace Pentecostal doctrines. If a church member or clergyman openly expressed such views, they would (either voluntarily or involuntarily) separate from their existing denomination. However, by the 1960s many of the characteristic teachings were gaining acceptance among Christians within mainline Protestant denominations. The charismatic movement represented a reversal of this previous pattern as those influenced by Pentecostal spirituality chose to remain in their original denominations. The popularization and broader acceptance of charismatic teachings as well as ideas are linked to the

Healing Revival that occurred from 1946 to 1958. The revivalists of the time, including William Branham, Oral Roberts, and A. A. Allen, held large interdenominational meetings which emphasized the gifts of the spirit. This global revival led to greater awareness and acceptance of Pentecostal teachings and practices.

 

[marksman]

What men have done with merchandising the words of God in the charismatic movement is not pleasing to the Lord.

How have they merchandised the words of God?

 

[marksman]

It has affected most denominations in the US, and has spread widely across the world

In the UK the Brethren was the main denomination to be affected. I joined a church that was founded by a Brethren Elder. He received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues and was told he had to desist or leave, which he did. He started a fellowship consisting of three people and over time it became a leading light in the restoration movement and attracted visitors from all over the world.

it was the forerunner of what was commonly known as the Restoration Movement and several branches of it were started by ex-Brethren Elders.