What is the sign of the Son of Man?

[Timtofly]

You're right about the crucifixion of Christ being the final end of that Age. In a sense it's the end and the beginning of every Age, the focal point of all history. Without the cross the creature would be finished by now, and that includes all of us. God would have destroyed His creation by now, were it not for the suffering of our Savior, and His resurrection from the dead.

But the Jews continued their sacrifices and offerings in the temple following the death and resurrection of Christ. That in itself would be an abomination to God, because it was both born in and cementing their rebellion. It was adding a gross insult to injury.

I still believe the events of the first century from the beginning of Christ's ministry until 70 A.D was the fulfillment of Daniel 9:26-27.

If it was an abomination for the Jews to keep going after the Cross, why do many preach the church keeps enduring after the 6th Seal Second Coming?

There definitely will not be 40 years left after the Second Coming. There should not even be 42 months, but Daniel 9:27 is still future, and may still happen.

 

[Timtofly]

One thing I know, a Millennial Kingdom on this earth isn't found in scripture.

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

You choose not to know Revelation 20.

It definitely is not going to be 1000 years in Paradise. Jesus has been ruling in Paradise for 1991 years. The Second Coming brings Christ to earth. Not sure why you send Him back to Paradise.

 

[Timtofly]

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived

It is on earth. The Second Coming brings The Prince Jesus Christ the Messiah to the earth.

Why are you decieved and send Him back to Paradise?

 

[Marty fox]

Have you torn Revelation 20 out of your Bible? You should do so immediately in order to support your false ideas and be consistent.

We Will Disagree, Jesus Words In Luke 17:37 Is A Parallel Teaching Of Revelation 19:17

It's Your Claim In Error, As "Two Groups" Are Seen In Luke 17:37, Those Taken And Those Left

The Fouls Of The Heavens Are Called To Feed On "Those Left"

You Can Claim Otherwise, We Will Disagree

The Context Of Luke 17 Is (The Second Coming) And Gods Literal Fiery Destruction, And (No) This Didnt Take Place In 70AD Jerusalem

Will It Be More Symbolic Allegory, In Removing The Very Clear Teaching Below?

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


Luke 17:34-37KJV
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Revelation 19:11-21KJV
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

But in your view is the thousand years after the events of revelation 19?

 

[Truth7t7]

You choose not to know Revelation 20.

It definitely is not going to be 1000 years in Paradise. Jesus has been ruling in Paradise for 1991 years. The Second Coming brings Christ to earth. Not sure why you send Him back to Paradise.

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Truth7t7]

But in your view is the thousand years after the events of revelation 19?

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[Enoch111]

But in your view is the thousand years after the events of revelation 19?

Yes. We should follow the chronological sequence of events in Revelation, which also tie into the Olivet Discourse.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes. We should follow the chronological sequence of events in Revelation, which also tie into the Olivet Discourse.

The book of Revelation is seen in "Parallel" teachings of same events, not chronologically as dispensationalism teaches

Example, Revelation 11:18 & Revelation 20:11-12 are "Parallel" teachings of the final judgement

Revelation 11:18KJV
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Revelation 20:11-12KJV
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[Marty fox]

The book of Revelation is seen in "Parallel" teachings of same events, not chronologically as dispensationalism teaches

Example, Revelation 11:18 & Revelation 20:11-12 are "Parallel" teachings of the final judgement

Revelation 11:18KJV
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Revelation 20:11-12KJV
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Then who is there to reign over all unsaved has been killed in the verses below?

Revelation 19:17-21
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

 

[Truth7t7]

Then who is there to reign over all unsaved has been killed in the verses below?

Revelation 19:17-21
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

Where does it state in your provided verses that anybody is Reigning as you claim, it's not found?

 

[Marty fox]

Where does it state in your provided verses that anybody is Reigning as you claim, it's not found?

Reread what I wrote I didn’t claim that anyone would be reigned over my point was that there wouldn’t be anyone to reign over because they are all dead

My point was that if revelation is all chronological there would be no one to be reigned over in Revelation 20 because the verses above say that they are all killed

You have a bit of a habit claiming that I said things which I didn’t say

 

[Marty fox]

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

I at least agree with some of this you are right that the thousand years isn’t a literal thousand years and it’s happing now.

The problem is that people think there is only one thousand years when there’s two different thousand years. One is a thousand year reigning and the other is a thousand year binding. That’s how satan is released before the second coming. The binding ends when satan is released the reigning doesn’t end until Jesus comes back at the end of our world on the judgement day

Jesus doesn’t reign because satan is bound Jesus reigns because of who He is He is God

 

[michaelvpardo]

The Question in the title was asked of Me By @marks, And i thought it would be worth a post here to get some other thoughts.

Here was my response to this Question to Him:

"We do not know exactly what that sign is but it is the sixth seal. I can surmise that it is the sky rolling up like a scroll, which is the one thing that differs from the Matthew 24:29-30 account and the Revelation 6:12-14. Read the two passages as parallel accounts to see this, Below.

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (Revelation 6:12-14)

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matthew 24:29-30)"

My Question to all of You is what is this sign? Some other verses to consider are Acts of the Apostles 1:11, Which is the ascension verse.

I always found it odd that the church, the folks that are waiting for Christ's return, wouldn't know what this pretty significant sign is.
The only sign that Jesus actually mentioned as given regarding His person was "the sign of Jonah". I've always thought that referred to His death and resurrection, so I suspect that the sign of His coming would be the resurrection of His church. That would be a difficult sign for anyone to miss.

 

[David H.]

I always found it odd that the church, the folks that are waiting for Christ's return, wouldn't know what this pretty significant sign is.
The only sign that Jesus actually mentioned as given regarding His person was "the sign of Jonah". I've always thought that referred to His death and resurrection, so I suspect that the sign of His coming would be the resurrection of His church. That would be a difficult sign for anyone to miss.

My thought the sign of Jonah was mirrored by the three three days the bodies of the two witnesses lie in the street. This sign is more for the Wicked who did not repent, as well as Israel in order to lead them to repentance. Not so much the church.

 

[michaelvpardo]

My thought the sign of Jonah was mirrored by the three three days the bodies of the two witnesses lie in the street. This sign is more for the Wicked who did not repent, as well as Israel in order to lead them to repentance. Not so much the church.

Exactly. When the first resurrection occurs, those saints still alive will be transformed and receive that purified fleshly tabernacle and rise with those who were "asleep" to meet the Lord in the air, to witness the judgment of the world and to return to Jerusalem with the Lord. It's hard to imagine a more global "sign" to the unbelieving world than graves opening everywhere and the dead rising up with new eternity worthy bodies.
There may be some other sign, but again, it does seem odd that no other sign is described as pertaining to the Lord other than His return in glory, accompanied by His saints.

 

[jessiblue]

Here is my understanding. The sign we’re looking for is the sign of Jonah, and this evil and wicked generation is going to be given this sign, too.

Matthew 12:38
Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
[39] But He answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Jesus Christ did not limit this "prophecy" to just that wicked, evil and adulterous generation of His day, to whom He would give the "Sign of Jonah" Himself as documented in Mat. 12:40-42. He said in verse 39 that "An" evil and adulterous generation, not just "this" evil and adulterous generation, seeketh after a sign.

The plan of God in this final generation includes the "Sign of Jonah" when His servants, those whom He sends to give witness unto the heathen in that "great city" shall die and be dead for 3 1/2 days and be resurrected. The sign of Jonah, the Dove, symbolic of the Spirit of God (Jn. 1:32) shall be given to the heathen in this final generation. Notice the very last words Jonah would utter in the belly of the great fish: "Salvation is of the LORD."

The sign of Jonah is to be seen in these last days. It is written in Revelation 11 that God will commission His two witnesses to prophecy in the holy city. Here is what happens to them when they finish their testimony:

Revelation 11:7-11
And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
[8] And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

That great city is Jerusalem, known also as Babylon the Great in these end times.

[9] And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
[10] And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
[11] And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Just as God showed us how He got the attention of the Ninevites and caused their repentance by raising up Jonah after 3 days, so will He also get the attention of those in these last days after the same manner, after the Sign of Jonah the prophet, by raising up His two witnesses after 3 1/2 days.

jb

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

...and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matthew 24:29-30)"

The answers right there.